Vision: Towards a Non-Stop North-South Corridor

[Norman]

Edit: Nevermind...

[Aidan]

While I was bored at work, I drew up some very rough costings of how I would construct a true Non-stop North-South Corridor.

Feedback is welcome. Remember, I am far from a good coster, I simply guessed some of the numbers and based others off current projects.

Enjoy

http://6cszrg.blu.livefilestore.com/y1p ... etable.pdf

OK I've looked at your list. Here are my thoughts:

A Mount Compass bypass will be needed.
You really need a lot more roads going over South Road with no on or offramps. And if you have them, a Castle Plaza tunnel would not be necessary, and the Thebarton tunnel may not.
Additionally, many pedestrian bridges will be needed.
Closing one intersection should not cost $5m.
Darlington work is likely to be more expensive.
An overpass would be appropriate for Daws Road, so it should cost less. Likewise with Richmond Road and Sir Donald Bradman Drive.
Is reduction in curve radius really necessary?
You have given the Northern connector a much higher priority than seems justified, and everything after it (with the possible exception of Darlington) a much lower priority.

[Norman]

For this vision I encountered two constraints
-the fact that this should be finished as soon as possible
-the fact that many allocations announced so far would not be changed
-Keeping Heritage places intact

In the plan I tried to squeeze the remaining projects into three blocks of 5 year periods, from 2015 to 2029 (included). I tried to align the projects that way as to concentrate projects to several areas and do the big projects before the smaller ones, while keeping the budget allocations to an even figure over the 15 years. The plan isn't perfect and I will make some adjustments next weekend.

Relating to the Darlington grade seperation, I would have thought it appropriate if the rail component, ie Flinders Interchange, would be costed under a different project header, under rail revitalisation.

Perhaps the bigger picture is yet to be realised, this is part of my transport and development plan for Adelaide I'm developing at the moment, and I'm gathering feedback during the process. In relation to the tunnels, those locations I am looking to possibly allocate TODs on, such as Casle Plaza/Edwardstown, Thebarton Oval and Hindmarsh (a plan I already sent out for feedback earlier this year).

So I'm going to tweak that list somewhat, concentrate projects with each other to compress work areas to certain areas, and come back with a better plan in a week or so. Thanks for the feedback so far Aidan.

EDIT: Just thought I would adress a few more of your issues:
-Mount Compass Bypass - Sounds good, although I would have included that in the original Duplication cost. I'll look at a few options for the bypass though and seperate it.
-Fewer access points sounds good as well, I'll look into it.
-The Thebarton Tunnel is needed because of the numerous heritage properties adjoining the road, I might actually just make the tunnel from the OH Line to Henley Beach Road and be done with it.
-Pedestrian bridges will be needed, as well as a few local road overpasses. I forgot to add a Misc category for that, I'll add that in.
-I wasn't sure if I should have included that Celtic Avenue bit, I'll add it to the Misc section.
-An Overpass at Daws Road would be cheaper, so I'll put that in for next time. Richmond Road and SDBD are a bit more sensitive to overpasses, so those will be kept as underpasses.
-The Northern Connector is likely to be federally funded in the next round of federal handouts, so I put it further up. It will be 'shovel-ready' sooner than the other projects.
-Curve radius reductions would be there to simply lower speed restrictions due to sharp curves, especially up at Torrens Road where the speed recommendation for the corner is 30 or 35 km/h.

[Omicron]

The link doesn't work for me. Sad face.

[Norman]

The link doesn't work for me. Sad face.

This happened yesterday as well, so I'll add it as an attachment up top.

[Aidan]

For this vision I encountered two constraints
-the fact that this should be finished as soon as possible
-the fact that many allocations announced so far would not be changed
-Keeping Heritage places intact

I think it would be more sensible to try to get the maximum benefits as soon as possible rather than trying to get it finished as soon as possible.

In the plan I tried to squeeze the remaining projects into three blocks of 5 year periods, from 2015 to 2029 (included). I tried to align the projects that way as to concentrate projects to several areas and do the big projects before the smaller ones, while keeping the budget allocations to an even figure over the 15 years.

Keeping budget allocations even is a red herring - it won't give much greater economic benefits to having uneven budgets. And I think your objective of doing the big projects before the small ones is a mistake. Apart those projects that have already been announced to remedy the biggest bottlenecks, it makes sense to give priority to maximizing the length of the free flowing stretches. The fact that the tram bridge is being constructed now suggests DTEI understand this.

The plan isn't perfect and I will make some adjustments next weekend.
Relating to the Darlington grade seperation, I would have thought it appropriate if the rail component, ie Flinders Interchange, would be costed under a different project header, under rail revitalisation.

Yes, but there's a lot more to Darlington than that. Environmental and Aboriginal heritage issues mean that the part of the Southern Expressway in Laffer's Triangle probably can't be widened, so an alternative joining site would have to be found. And I also think you've greatly underestimated the cost of duplicating the Southern Expressway.

Perhaps the bigger picture is yet to be realised, this is part of my transport and development plan for Adelaide I'm developing at the moment, and I'm gathering feedback during the process. In relation to the tunnels, those locations I am looking to possibly allocate TODs on, such as Casle Plaza/Edwardstown, Thebarton Oval and Hindmarsh (a plan I already sent out for feedback earlier this year).

They're still needlessly expensive.

So I'm going to tweak that list somewhat, concentrate projects with each other to compress work areas to certain areas, and come back with a better plan in a week or so. Thanks for the feedback so far Aidan.
EDIT: Just thought I would adress a few more of your issues:
-Mount Compass Bypass - Sounds good, although I would have included that in the original Duplication cost. I'll look at a few options for the bypass though and seperate it.
-Fewer access points sounds good as well, I'll look into it.

Fewer access points doesn't sound at all good to me, but you do need more ways to get from one side of South Road to the other.

-The Thebarton Tunnel is needed because of the numerous heritage properties adjoining the road,

Why? Are you insisting South Road be widened as well?

I might actually just make the tunnel from the OH Line to Henley Beach Road and be done with it.

Needless expense!

-Pedestrian bridges will be needed, as well as a few local road overpasses. I forgot to add a Misc category for that, I'll add that in.
-I wasn't sure if I should have included that Celtic Avenue bit, I'll add it to the Misc section.
-An Overpass at Daws Road would be cheaper, so I'll put that in for next time. Richmond Road and SDBD are a bit more sensitive to overpasses, so those will be kept as underpasses.

Sites surrounded by commercial and industrial properties don't look sensitive to me!

-The Northern Connector is likely to be federally funded in the next round of federal handouts, so I put it further up. It will be 'shovel-ready' sooner than the other projects.

But it won't be needed sooner. The source of funding is a distraction - I'm sure the federal government would prefer to fund what urgently needs doing than what doesn't.

-Curve radius reductions would be there to simply lower speed restrictions due to sharp curves, especially up at Torrens Road where the speed recommendation for the corner is 30 or 35 km/h.

The speed at that corner is a red herring, as it's one of the intersections that will be grade separated. Lamont Street is likely to be more of a problem but should only require the demolition of two properties, so it shouldn't cost $50m. Unless an underpass is constructed there, $1m seems a more realistic figure.

[mattblack]

Perhaps the bigger picture is yet to be realised, this is part of my transport and development plan for Adelaide I'm developing at the moment, and I'm gathering feedback during the process. In relation to the tunnels, those locations I am looking to possibly allocate TODs on, such as Casle Plaza/Edwardstown, Thebarton Oval and Hindmarsh (a plan I already sent out for feedback earlier this year).

They're still needlessly expensive.

I might actually just make the tunnel from the OH Line to Henley Beach Road and be done with it.

Needless expense!

WOW!

Aidan against building tunnels.
A black US president
What could be next

[Norman]

The real problem with this north-south corridor are the adjoining properties, which makes freeway-isation pretty much impossible unless you buy all the adjoining properties. So I'll just give up while I'm ahead I guess because this city planning is way too complex.

[Aidan]

WOW!

Aidan against building tunnels.
A black US president
What could be next

If it surprises you, you obviously don't know me very well!

I've always been against building tunnels where they're not very useful, as the money required prevents more urgently needed tunnels from being constructed. You can find proof of that at my other website which is a plan for constructing a cheaper railway under London so that more railways under London can be constructed afterwards. Unfortunately that plan was unsuccessful - the legislation went through parliament last year, and they've now started building the £16 billion version (which they can't really afford).

The real problem with this north-south corridor are the adjoining properties, which makes freeway-isation pretty much impossible unless you buy all the adjoining properties. So I'll just give up while I'm ahead I guess because this city planning is way too complex.

There is a big difference between a freeway and a nonstop corridor. Grade separating the road will greatly increase capacity - nothing else needs to be done. There could be problems with the amount of traffic on the road preventing traffic from entering, though this would be alleviated a bit by local buses disrupting the flow in the left lane.

One alternative is to widen the road by adding a local traffic lane each way. This would increase the width of the road by about 4m (as the median could be narrowed) and enable traffic to join more easily than it does now. The lane would lead to the traffic lights rather than through any underpasses or overpasses.

[mattblack]

WOW!

Aidan against building tunnels.
A black US president
What could be next

If it surprises you, you obviously don't know me very well!

No, I dont have a clue what you look like let alone who you are. Just going on your previous posts. Im sure your an awsome Guy/Girl though.