My Adelaide Road & Rail Plan

[Straze]

A while ago i proposed a continuous bus lane along South Road between Mile End & Bedford Park. Originally one of my ideas that i did not suggest - a underground busway which would run underneath South Road between Mile End & Bedford Park, the busway stations will be located at the existing Transit Link stops, the busway stations would have access by stairs and ramps. This project will aim to provide commuters with a fast, reliable, efficient and reduce travel times for public transport users. If you have any questions, helpful information, suggestions or comments your post will be appreciated.

[Aidan]

A while ago i proposed a continuous bus lane along South Road between Mile End & Bedford Park. Originally one of my ideas that i did not suggest - a underground busway which would run underneath South Road between Mile End & Bedford Park, the busway stations will be located at the existing Transit Link stops, the busway stations would have access by stairs and ramps. This project will aim to provide commuters with a fast, reliable, efficient and reduce travel times for public transport users. If you have any questions, helpful information, suggestions or comments your post will be appreciated.

Why would you want to construct a long bus tunnel when there's a railway almost parallelling it?
And if the money were available to construct a bus tunnel with stations, wouldn't the City be a better place to put it?

[Straze]

The Tonsley Line currently runs during the day on weekdays at a frequency of around a hour, the section between Adelaide Railway Station and Woodlands Park is shared with the Noarlunga Centre Line. Sure the SA Government has proposed to extend the line to Flinders University but there is no gurantee this will happen as there are issues with gradient, earthquake risk from nearby seismetic plates and crossing Sturt and Main South Roads by either a overpass or underpass (high costs). Even if you opt to connect buses south of Bedford Park to the Tonsley Line it may not be effective as transfering takes up precious time and the train does not service the workers who are commuting to the workplaces near Victoria Square. Buses are the right choice as they are flexible, can stay within 10 seconds headway, use existing road infrastructure, low cost both short term and long term and attractive to a wide range of people.

[Westside]

Buses are the right choice as they are flexible, can stay within 10 seconds headway, use existing road infrastructure, low cost both short term and long term and attractive to a wide range of people.

But your previous suggestion is not low cost at all. For the price of a bus subway the length of South Rd, you could extend the Tonsley line to Flinders and build a bus interchange, and build a rail subway in town to deliver ppl to the heart of the city. Then you could quite easily run trains every 10/15 min and take dozens of buses off South and Goodwood roads.

[AG]

Sure the SA Government has proposed to extend the line to Flinders University but there is no gurantee this will happen as there are issues with gradient, earthquake risk from nearby seismic plates and crossing Sturt and Main South Roads by either a overpass or underpass (high costs).

Choosing not to build something simply because it exists near small fault lines is a poor reason not to build something. The fault lines that exist in the Darlington area are intraplate fault lines which are responsible for reasonably small tremors, not interplate faults. By that reasoning, no buildings in the area should exist either and neither should any cities built in high risk earthquake zones. Even if it was in a high risk zone, technology exists that would make an overpass structure resistant to forces during an earthquake.

You suggest that building an overpass or underpass is expensive, and yet you're suggesting a long bus tunnel which isn't exactly cheap either. Not only that, but you're also ignoring overlooking the potential benefits of both options. Project worthiness isn't simply a matter of cost, but a matter of benefit-cost analysis. The cost of a bus tunnel between Mile End and Bedford Park would be many times the cost of extending the train line, with zero to marginal additional benefit.

[jk1237]

Id say that the extension over to Flinders cant happen until we get some more trains, which will be after electrification, so no proposals just yet. This project will attract quite a few commuters, and we dont have enough trains to cover it at the moment. I doubt gradient would be a problem, it really only needs to go up as high as the medical centre, with an rail overpass over South and prob Sturt Rd also. The students can walk up from there or take connecting buses if they need to go up to the law building. They could build a chairlift from the med centre station up to the library (just kidding), or even a simple escalator

[Straze]

The current bus routes that travel along the South Road corridor between Mile End/Everard Park & Bedford Park - 719, 720, 721, 722, 723, 725, 727, T721, T721X and T722, there are some X routes (721X & 722X). The average journey time between the City & Bedford Park is around 30-40 minutes depending on the stopping pattern on the route and traffic delays. The busway which will be used by Transit Link and Express services i predict to reduce travel times by a least ten minutes and would improve on time running. Therefore public transport (buses) would be more attractive and reliable. As i have stated in the start of this thread the state government predicts traffic will rise along South Road by 6% per year untill 2020. I understand the Tonsley Line proposed extension to Flinders i think is a great idea and will help encourage public transport usage in the area.

[Westside]

The average journey time between the City & Bedford Park is around 30-40 minutes depending on the stopping pattern on the route and traffic delays. The busway which will be used by Transit Link and Express services i predict to reduce travel times by a least ten minutes and would improve on time running. Therefore public transport (buses) would be more attractive and reliable. As i have stated in the start of this thread the state government predicts traffic will rise along South Road by 6% per year untill 2020. I understand the Tonsley Line proposed extension to Flinders i think is a great idea and will help encourage public transport usage in the area.

Or you could transfer these patrons to trains at Tonsley/Flinders, which takes 22 mins ALL STOPS. Even allowing 10 mins wait to transfer and you're still ahead of your plan at more than one thousandth the cost of a 5km busway. Please think before planning your grandiose schemes and have a look at the current infrastructure around. If all 72#F and G2# buses transferred their patrons to a train at Tonsley/Flinders, you could more than justify a 15 min frequency throughout the day with many of the trains able to run express from Woodlands Pk, saving an extra 5 min.

[rhino]

Id say that the extension over to Flinders cant happen until we get some more trains, which will be after electrification, so no proposals just yet. This project will attract quite a few commuters, and we dont have enough trains to cover it at the moment.

Don't build it because we don't have enough trains to run it? If we had the spare trains sitting around idle, wouldn't that be a huge waste of money? Why not time the spending so that new trains are ready to roll at the same time as the line is completed?

[fabricator]

Id say that the extension over to Flinders cant happen until we get some more trains, which will be after electrification, so no proposals just yet. This project will attract quite a few commuters, and we dont have enough trains to cover it at the moment.

Don't build it because we don't have enough trains to run it? If we had the spare trains sitting around idle, wouldn't that be a huge waste of money? Why not time the spending so that new trains are ready to roll at the same time as the line is completed?

That is exactly the idea I had, actually to time construction with the current track replacement program. That way the idle time when crews aren't able to work on the existing network, can be used for construction of the new line.

We have 50 new railcars to order, delivered from 2012 to 2018, which is about 8 railcars a year. Thing is once that is done its an entirely new order if we want more. Point is there is a volume discount with trains, the more you order in one lot the cheaper each one is.

[Norman]

Actually, there's 66 new railcars I believe, with the Seaford extension requiring an extra 16 cars I believe.

[Straze]

Thank you all for your comments on this thread, the busway proposals was just an idea that i wanted to share with you, i appreciate the time you took to express your opinion. I understand that a train line extension to Flinders will be an important project - i suggest that the branch line to be doubled, a new or improved interchange near the new railway station, buses from Aberfoyle Hub, Reynella, Woodcroft etc. connect with the train, you may require some buses to and from the city to assist in peak periods but at other times it should be fine.

[fkj]

im interested as to why bedford park seems to be at the centre of all your proposals?

[jk1237]

im interested as to why bedford park seems to be at the centre of all your proposals?

well for me, its caus that part of South Rd handles about 70,000 cars per day, and hundreds of buses driving all the way into town via 2 old narrow, congested roads. Just to capture around 10% of that commuting would make a well patronised train line. It wouldn't be a huge project, I reckon it could be done in a couple of years, so hopefully it can start in about 2-3 years time, to fit in timeline with the new trains

[Straze]

Buses are a good choice of public transport because they are cheaper and flexible to run yet when they are run during peak hour they are not effective without right of way i.e bus lanes and B lights at intersections. One intersection that i would like to see improve is the Main North/Port Wakefield/Grand Junction Roads at Gepps Cross, i have during the afternoon peak waited at stop 25 on Main North Road for at least 5 minutes waiting for a bus to get to the bus stop let alone get through to the intersection in the end this and other delays along Main North Road really doesnt encourage people to catch the bus to and from work or wherever you need to go, 25-30 minutes to get from the City to Gepps Cross (10kms) thats an absolute joke. The State Government really needs to drive down Main North Road and observe for themselves because it needs fixing now.