The O-Bahn

[The Scooter Guy]

My top 4 ideas on how to improve the O-Bahn system:
1. Replace the old track with new land-locked track, filled with ballast to reduce vibrations.
2. Have Scania manufacutre a new O-Bahn recovery vehicle as well as a special ballast cleaning vehicle.
3. Build a new Locheal Park bus interchange.
4. Have new O-bahn buses use duel fuel system (Mineral Diesel & Biodiesel)

[Shuz]

My one idea to improve the Obahn.

1. Get rid of it.

[rubberman]

To the scooter guy, good ideas.

I would add just a few more steps:

Add steel rails and put steel wheels on the buses to reduce rolling friction
Use electric motors with overhead 600V DC supply.
Purchase new Flexity 'buses' from Bombardier.

Repeat the above for the route out to TTPlaza.

Gotta love that O-bahn

[Aidan]

My top 4 ideas on how to improve the O-Bahn system:
1. Replace the old track with new land-locked track, filled with ballast to reduce vibrations.

Bad idea. Currently the track is on concrete piles so that it stays in the correct position. If the track was built into the ground, the strains from the expansive clay would distort the track alignment, so the ride would be a lot bumpier. Even if you kept the piles and used gravel to build the ground up, it would make maintenance more difficult because problems would be harder to detect.

And ballast would have a negligible effect on vibrations. And one of the stated advantages of the existing setup is that the absence of a continuous reflecting road surface reduces noise - though I doubt that has very much of an effect either.

2. Have Scania manufacutre a new O-Bahn recovery vehicle as well as a special ballast cleaning vehicle.

What's wrong with the existing recovery vehicle? And why would you want to waste money on a special ballast cleaning vehicle?

3. Build a new Locheal Park bus interchange.

Where?

4. Have new O-bahn buses use duel fuel system (Mineral Diesel & Biodiesel)

That's not what a dual fuel system is. Dual fuel usually means Diesel and CNG. Biodiesel is just diesel, even though the specifications are slightly different.

Anyhow, why not be a bit more imaginitive? How about hybrid buses? Possibly even have 4th rail electrification on the track to help recharge the batteries?

[monotonehell]

3. Build a new Locheal Park bus interchange.

Where?..

I think Scooter means Lochiel Park, it's that new "green" housing estate built alongside the track. Not a good idea to put a station just to serve a small community, that would slow down the service to those more distant. A small feeder from the development to Klemzig would be better. For a green development there's an outstanding lack of PT.
http://www.sensational-adelaide.com/for ... f=8&t=1582

And I'll second the reasons for the current track being elevated instead of on a ballast bed. It was one of the reasons why the O'Bahn was selected over light rail.

[AtD]

To the scooter guy, good ideas.

I would add just a few more steps:

Add steel rails and put steel wheels on the buses to reduce rolling friction
Use electric motors with overhead 600V DC supply.
Purchase new Flexity 'buses' from Bombardier.

Repeat the above for the route out to TTPlaza.

Gotta love that O-bahn

Will this new service have a 'bus' direct from Para Hills to the city in peak?
Or Redwood Park?
Or Highbury?
Or Banksia Park?
Greenwith?
Gulfview Heights?
St Agnes?
Wynn Vale?
Tea Tree Gully?
Holden Hill?

[monotonehell]

To the scooter guy, good ideas.

I would add just a few more steps:

Add steel rails and put steel wheels on the buses to reduce rolling friction
Use electric motors with overhead 600V DC supply.
Purchase new Flexity 'buses' from Bombardier.

Repeat the above for the route out to TTPlaza.

Gotta love that O-bahn

I'm amused how "rubber"man likes steel so much

Question: if a lower rolling friction is so desirable, why do trains carry little pots of sand?

[rubberman]

Will this new service have a 'bus' direct from Para Hills to the city in peak?
Or Redwood Park?
Or Highbury?
Or Banksia Park?
Greenwith?
Gulfview Heights?
St Agnes?
Wynn Vale?
Tea Tree Gully?
Holden Hill?

Nope. However, I suggest that buses feeding a hub with trams would be quicker. Which is the reason that other major cities round the world have not taken up the O-bahn. If the buses feeding the hub can return to their terminus more quickly because they do not have to travel all the way into town that means more frequent buses, or less buses for the same frequency. The hub to the city can then be done with flexitys - even coupled *gasp*.

The O-bahn was an interesting experiment, but the fact that nobody else really took it up speaks volumes. I find it hard to believe that with Mercedes pushing it, people would not have looked at it seriously - especially with the through running advantage - unless there was no advantage over bus feeding tramway/metro systems.

I note that Adelaide also has declined to duplicate the experiment - despite there being similar traffic issues to the south of the city.

I know it is often a source of civic pride to citizens in various towns to have the biggest mango, orange, lobster, or the longest O-bahn, but again, if the O-bahn was really a goer, why not down south in Adelaide? Why not in other places in the world? I am sure better brains than mine have directed their intellect to answering that question.

[muzzamo]

The O-bahn was an interesting experiment, but the fact that nobody else really took it up speaks volumes. I find it hard to believe that with Mercedes pushing it, people would not have looked at it seriously - especially with the through running advantage - unless there was no advantage over bus feeding tramway/metro systems.

I note that Adelaide also has declined to duplicate the experiment - despite there being similar traffic issues to the south of the city.

I know it is often a source of civic pride to citizens in various towns to have the biggest mango, orange, lobster, or the longest O-bahn, but again, if the O-bahn was really a goer, why not down south in Adelaide? Why not in other places in the world? I am sure better brains than mine have directed their intellect to answering that question.

Yeah the guided busway concept hasn't taken off elsewhere, but busways certainly have - just look at Brisbane for one of many, may examples. So the fact that the o-bahn hasn't been used extensively elsewhere isn't an argument for ripping it up and replacing it with a tram/metro. Busways are very popular and successful

[monotonehell]

Reason why OBahn wasn't taken down South? Same reason why we have half an expressway, or nothing else was added down South -- money and the Government's unwillingness to spend what they didn't have.

Reason why "no one else"* has taken up the OBahn? People's love affair with rail. When a PT solution is considered the train enthusiasts come out of the woodwork. You can see it happen everytime. People will push for rail above logic. You can see it in many pro-rail websites (PTUA, LightRailNow etc) the facts regarding the OBahn are overlooked, skewed, or lumped in with regular busways and pretty much ignored.

There's situations where rail is a damn good fit, and there's other situations where an OBahn is a damn good fit. If only people could look beyond the pro-rail propaganda an see sense that the accepted wisdom is not 100% correct, we would have the best of both worlds.


- *and by "no one else" I mean ;
* Leigh-Salford-Manchester, Bus Rapid Transit Guide Busway UK (7km, 2013)
* Cambridgeshire, guided busway UK (25km, 2010) - Will be twice as long as our OBahn
* Leeds Superbus, guided busway UK (1.5km 1995, 2km 2005)
* Bradford, Quality Bus guided busway UK (2.3km, 2001)
* West Sussex, Crawley Fastway guided busway UK (1.5km, 2004)
* North Tyneside, Route 19 guided busway UK (?km, current)
* Nagoya, Guideway Bus guided busway Japan (6.5km, 2001)

There's several older ones that have been abandoned due to disinterest in replacing the fleet, and many more planned and in investigation.

[AtD]

Nope. However, I suggest that buses feeding a hub with trams would be quicker. Which is the reason that other major cities round the world have not taken up the O-bahn. If the buses feeding the hub can return to their terminus more quickly because they do not have to travel all the way into town that means more frequent buses, or less buses for the same frequency. The hub to the city can then be done with flexitys - even coupled *gasp*.

How can a transfer to trams be quicker when the Flexitys only have a top speed of 80km/h and you're including an extra transfer and the resulting longer dwell times?

A tram wouldn't work on the O-bahn corridor. Take a look at the built environment around it. Almost the entire length of the track has nothing around it at all, so any rail vehicle would require time consuming and unpopular transfers. A busway is the only logical solution unless the surrounding population density is increased dramatically.

Surely there's better PT initiatives for us to obsess over and for the government to spend money on than replacing an already successful piece of infrastructure with another with dubious benefit?

[AtD]

* Cambridgeshire, guided busway UK (25km, 2010) - Will be twice as long as our OBahn

Wow I didn't know that.

[rubberman]

Well Monotone, I think you are right on the money that there are fan groups out there that want this, that or the other depending on their fetish.

However, transport operators who in the past have dumped trams, steam trains, trolley buses are probably not amongst them. So my question was rather more directed to the question why professional public transport operators round the world use coordinated rail/road/metro rather than the few guided busways.

By all means you and I and anyone of sense can brush away the desires of fan clubs (for skateboard tracks to the city, running 80 year old H cars, vintage buses, extra lanes for souped up '70s Ford Foulcans etc etc name your fetish), but it does not wash when the professionals are patently ignoring O-bahn in most of the world.

AtD, I note your questions about the wait etc. However, these are not problems unique to Adelaide. So unless you are suggesting that professional public transport operators overwhelmingly are ignoring the O-bahn out of spite, it might be more helpful to concentrate on what their reasons are. Who knows, if we are prepared to be a little self critical, we might be able to see what the problems are mit der O-bahn, provide a fix, and voila, O-bahnen will spring up like soursobs in a suburban backyard.

AtD - Even the H Cars could manage 80+ Km/Hr, and that is with the field weakening knotch disabled in the PC5L2 controller. So I suspect that Bombardier could provide a 'tweak' to get 100+ with their hands tied behind their back and blindfolded. Not as if they don't make a standard 80km version anyway - and what are the motor ratings? I bet the Flexity has more than the H car's 50 kW/motor just on the basis of observing how they get over the various humps in the line. Where the H cars slow down going over the Goodwood flyover, the Flexitys glide. Plenty of power to spare for a speed tweak.

[AtD]

The reason guided busways are so rare is quite simple:
A regular busway operator can take any bus "off the shelf."
A guided busway operator cannot.

Even if our trams could travel in excess of 80km/h, it doesn't change the fact that there's nothing along the length of corridor until Modbury that generates passengers. A rail line requires feeder buses and transfers - this is a downgrade on the existing arrangements.

[monotonehell]

The other half of it as I hinted to above is political will. The Cambridge Busway was a great potted example of the politics involved.

A guided busway's primary advantage over rail is that the buses can hop on and off at interchanges and continue on street without passengers having to change vehicle partway through -- but still be able to remove those vehicles from the surface roads for the intervening part of the trip. This suits Adelaide's situation and the authority in Cambridge recognised that it would suit them as well.

Only problem was part of the corridor selected used to be a failed rail corridor that some local enthusiasts have been trying to get reinstated. Because a guided busway takes up less room the former rail corridor can now accommodate the busway as well as a cycleway. Queue the public outcry of "omgz what do you mean we wont get a train?" They also wanted it reconnected with the main line (not going to happen says BR). Queue the misinformation campaigns and etc.

Luckily for Cambridge (I could be proven wrong here when the whole thing opens ) there was an authority in this case who could see past the emotional desire for a train service (with a feeder bus service).

So the Cambridge engineering bods came over here and examined our OBahn, saw that it worked and worked well. Then set about adapting the system to their needs.


In many other places that have dared to think of anything other than a train, people get shouted down, or the funding dries up before they even get to the investigation stage. In short the elected officials are too chicken to stand up against public (what's the non-pejorative for ignorance?) ...