Adelaide Bashing - Strategies to Combat

[Shahkar]

But except for Sydney Tower maybe, would the general public mostly including people overseas really think about their dense skyline or their suburban skylines? We are talking about first thoughts

[Wayno]

Thinking that "a city's skyline is the strongest indicator of the vibrancy and success of a city" is only in developing/new developed countries. As someone said before, Perth was going no where until a few tall buildings got built. We are ages ahead in vibrancy compared to Perth and in some matters, Brisbane as well.

Shahkar, this is the exact point. Adelaide is ahead but not perceived to be so. A refreshed skyline will greatly help dismiss this misconception.

[rev]

Ok put it this way then...you fly into a city..you are a first time traveler to these cities..let's say Adelaide, Sydney and Melbourne.

Flying into Adelaide, you look out the window and see what...? Does the CBD look like it's a place you really want to go to?
It looks terrible from the air. Just look at all the photos on the Internet of photos from flights coming into Adelaide Airport. Yuck.

You fly into Melbourne...look out the window, and you see this huge city/downtown area and think wow..cant wait to see what's there.

You fly into Sydney..same as Melbourne.


Sure, Adelaide on ground level has a lot happening.
We've gotten "over" the loss of the F1, and moved beyond it with all our festivals. Our Fringe is the biggest of its kind on this side of the planet. Second biggest in the world. Now every other major Aussie city is trying to match us basically.

But do you think our skyline, our cbd, inspires confidence and a sense of opportunity or anything positive?
It's remain virtually unchanged for how many years now?
And the additions that have gone up that are noticeable, simply add to the mess and ugliness.
That student accomodation tower or two across from the casino on the corner of north terrace and banks street...which I think for a time was visible from Adelaide Oval during the international tests/one dayers..
It's a good thin the skyline from that view already looks like dog meat, because that ugly building would have stuck out worse then dog balls on a mouse.

Adelaide needs a makeover. Nobody can deny that.
Even if we don't get taller buildings, many of the monstrosities that make up our skyline need to be imploded and replaced with modern towers.

Or just imagine if they reclad Westpac house to look modern?

[JAKJ]

Ok put it this way then...you fly into a city..you are a first time traveler to these cities..let's say Adelaide, Sydney and Melbourne.

Flying into Adelaide, you look out the window and see what...? Does the CBD look like it's a place you really want to go to?
It looks terrible from the air. Just look at all the photos on the Internet of photos from flights coming into Adelaide Airport. Yuck.

You fly into Melbourne...look out the window, and you see this huge city/downtown area and think wow..cant wait to see what's there.

You fly into Sydney..same as Melbourne.


Sure, Adelaide on ground level has a lot happening.
We've gotten "over" the loss of the F1, and moved beyond it with all our festivals. Our Fringe is the biggest of its kind on this side of the planet. Second biggest in the world. Now every other major Aussie city is trying to match us basically.

But do you think our skyline, our cbd, inspires confidence and a sense of opportunity or anything positive?
It's remain virtually unchanged for how many years now?
And the additions that have gone up that are noticeable, simply add to the mess and ugliness.
That student accomodation tower or two across from the casino on the corner of north terrace and banks street...which I think for a time was visible from Adelaide Oval during the international tests/one dayers..
It's a good thin the skyline from that view already looks like dog meat, because that ugly building would have stuck out worse then dog balls on a mouse.

Adelaide needs a makeover. Nobody can deny that.
Even if we don't get taller buildings, many of the monstrosities that make up our skyline need to be imploded and replaced with modern towers.

Or just imagine if they reclad Westpac house to look modern?

I think you are focusing on the wrong things. When you fly into the city, you either fly over the Flurieu Peninsular (spectacular), the ocean (spectacular) or the hills (spectacular). Adelaide's natural setting is one of it's greatest assets and very visible from air. I don't think the size of the CBD is going to be a factor, as I am sure most people coming to Adelaide are aware of it's size. Further, the parklands as well provide a very unique visual experience, with the CBD "sitting in the park" and I have heard commented on quite a few times while flying in to Adelaide (positively).

Last point, most flight paths don't actually come so close to the CBD, so flying into Adelaide provides an up front view of a city (again quite unique, particularly in Australia), so due to perspective it is much more impressive than flying into Melbourne, Perth and Brisbane at least.

[ml69]

I think even 1 or 2 tall(ish), well designed buildings would make such a difference to people's opinions of our wonderful city (both interstaters and Adelaide residents themselves).

It seems that most of the historical barriers have been removed (proximity to airport, height limits, etc) so now we just have to cross our fingers and wait in and hope...

Agree with this, I was thinking the same myself a couple of weeks ago. The current skyline looks crap because only one building sticks out like a middle finger (Westpace House).

If we had one other well-designed building (even of similar height 130-140m), then another building taller than the Black Stump (say around 120-130m) it would make a big difference to the skyline.

We've had plenty of new office buildings over the past 10 years in particular, so plenty of building activity, but its made no difference to the skyline as they have all been shorter than the Black Stump ... hence giving the impression that we are not "progressing", which of course is totally incorrect.

I also think that these tall buildings are unlikely to be 100% offices given the current and future state of the economy, and also a 35-40 odd building containing only apartments is likely to be a difficult thing to sell. However a mixed-use development of office + apartments or hotel + apartments could get us to the 120m+ height.

[ml69]

I think even 1 or 2 tall(ish), well designed buildings would make such a difference to people's opinions of our wonderful city (both interstaters and Adelaide residents themselves).

It seems that most of the historical barriers have been removed (proximity to airport, height limits, etc) so now we just have to cross our fingers and wait in and hope...

Agree with this, I was thinking the same myself a couple of weeks ago. The current skyline looks crap because only one building sticks out like a middle finger (Westpace House).

If we had one other well-designed building (even of similar height 130-140m), then another building taller than the Black Stump (say around 120-130m) it would make a big difference to the skyline.

We've had plenty of new office buildings over the past 10 years in particular, so plenty of building activity, but its made no difference to the skyline as they have all been shorter than the Black Stump ... hence giving the impression that we are not "progressing", which of course is totally incorrect.

I also think that these tall buildings are unlikely to be 100% offices given the current and future state of the economy, and also a 35-40 odd level building containing only apartments is likely to be a difficult thing to sell. However a mixed-use development of office + apartments or hotel + apartments could get us to the 120m+ height.

[[Shuz]]

If only reality was so kind that Developer A who proposes a building of 60m tall, residential, teams up with Developer B who proposes a building of 60m tall commercial, and join forces to create a mixed use tower of 120m tall! Voila!

[Mants]

Interestingly enough even the cities Shuz suggested may not be recognisable by their skylines alone, contain The London Eye, Golden Gate Bridge, Harbour Bridge and Space Needle. All of these structures are all taller than Westpac House, and all of them are synonymous with their respective cities. And who could forget the Eiffel Tower?

I'm not advocating the need to commission the construction of an iconic building or something similar. To be honest, most things have been done elsewhere or would be impractical. Tourists will never come to Adelaide to visit a bridge...we don't have a body of water which demands anything of similar grandeur to the world's most famous. Climbing a theoretical observation tower to stare off into our sprawling suburbia would be a waste of time. And the idea of any sort of observation wheel in Adelaide makes me shudder.

The truth is, Adelaide's charm is at street level, especially at our festivals. Unfortunately, this isn't really able to translate through photographs. We can debate what Adelaide's current image should be until the cows come home. But the truth is, from a tourist (domestic or international) perspective, Adelaide looks exactly the same as it has for as long as most people can remember. I'll even admit, sometimes in deducing the age of a skyline photo, the easiest way is to look at the signage on Westpac House...which most people know as the State Bank/Santos anyway.

Changing the "postcard image" of Adelaide would do wonders for our psyche and reputation. To be honest, I don't think it matters what gets built, so long as it draws attention away from some of our worst buildings that dominate our skyline and other people's perceptions.

[Matt]

The fact that Westpac/Santos/State Bank tower hasn't been challenged in nearly 30 years doesn't do Adelaide any favours when attempting to deflect the "nothing ever changes" argument.

While almost all other city skylines in Australia are now dominated by steel and glass, ours remains effectively trapped in a time warp of beige, stone and some seriously dated design.

A couple of sleek, imaginative talls would do wonders to challenge (untrue) preconceptions.

A healthy, dynamic skyline is important and ours has remained stagnant for far too long.

Westpac needs to be usurped within the next few years - having the former State Bank building looming over the city as a reminder of times passed really isn't ideal.

[monotonehell]

Wishing for tall builds wont make them appear.

Adelaide's combination of moderate demand and plenty of space means we wont see a new tally in quite some time. There needs to be a lot more medium-rise infill before we will see much vertical motion.

Crying for tall buildings is a form of self bashing.

[rev]

Ok put it this way then...you fly into a city..you are a first time traveler to these cities..let's say Adelaide, Sydney and Melbourne.

Flying into Adelaide, you look out the window and see what...? Does the CBD look like it's a place you really want to go to?
It looks terrible from the air. Just look at all the photos on the Internet of photos from flights coming into Adelaide Airport. Yuck.

You fly into Melbourne...look out the window, and you see this huge city/downtown area and think wow..cant wait to see what's there.

You fly into Sydney..same as Melbourne.


Sure, Adelaide on ground level has a lot happening.
We've gotten "over" the loss of the F1, and moved beyond it with all our festivals. Our Fringe is the biggest of its kind on this side of the planet. Second biggest in the world. Now every other major Aussie city is trying to match us basically.

But do you think our skyline, our cbd, inspires confidence and a sense of opportunity or anything positive?
It's remain virtually unchanged for how many years now?
And the additions that have gone up that are noticeable, simply add to the mess and ugliness.
That student accomodation tower or two across from the casino on the corner of north terrace and banks street...which I think for a time was visible from Adelaide Oval during the international tests/one dayers..
It's a good thin the skyline from that view already looks like dog meat, because that ugly building would have stuck out worse then dog balls on a mouse.

Adelaide needs a makeover. Nobody can deny that.
Even if we don't get taller buildings, many of the monstrosities that make up our skyline need to be imploded and replaced with modern towers.

Or just imagine if they reclad Westpac house to look modern?

I think you are focusing on the wrong things. When you fly into the city, you either fly over the Flurieu Peninsular (spectacular), the ocean (spectacular) or the hills (spectacular). Adelaide's natural setting is one of it's greatest assets and very visible from air. I don't think the size of the CBD is going to be a factor, as I am sure most people coming to Adelaide are aware of it's size. Further, the parklands as well provide a very unique visual experience, with the CBD "sitting in the park" and I have heard commented on quite a few times while flying in to Adelaide (positively).

Last point, most flight paths don't actually come so close to the CBD, so flying into Adelaide provides an up front view of a city (again quite unique, particularly in Australia), so due to perspective it is much more impressive than flying into Melbourne, Perth and Brisbane at least.

I think some people in this state, this forum included, need to pull their heads out of each others asses and breath some fresh air for a change.
Yes, all the things we know Adelaide is good for, wineries, flinders, etc, aren't some world beating tourist magnets. If they were, we'd be flooded with tourists. So would many many other places around the world.
We've been relying on those things for so long, and where has it gotten us? Nowhere.

Image is everything.
We are competing against each and every other city.
Our city looks like a pile of dog shit. I dare you to tell me it doesn't.

People look up Adelaide, and those images of our disgusting CBD come up. Who in their right mind would continue to look into Adelaide after seeing the brown pile of shit that is our cbd? Only the few who have heard of Adelaide before, and know a thing or two about it.


Adelaide needs a new image, it needs a make over.

Unless we are content with what we have and the small increases each year in international visitors to our city. Then yes, what we have and what we are doing is just fine.

[Nathan]

I think some people in this state, this forum included, need to pull their heads out of each others asses and breath some fresh air for a change.
Yes, all the things we know Adelaide is good for, wineries, flinders, etc, aren't some world beating tourist magnets. If they were, we'd be flooded with tourists. So would many many other places around the world.
We've been relying on those things for so long, and where has it gotten us? Nowhere.

Image is everything.
We are competing against each and every other city.
Our city looks like a pile of dog shit. I dare you to tell me it doesn't.

People look up Adelaide, and those images of our disgusting CBD come up. Who in their right mind would continue to look into Adelaide after seeing the brown pile of shit that is our cbd? Only the few who have heard of Adelaide before, and know a thing or two about it.


Adelaide needs a new image, it needs a make over.

Unless we are content with what we have and the small increases each year in international visitors to our city. Then yes, what we have and what we are doing is just fine.

What ridiculous hyperbole. Would Adelaide benefit from some new tall & shiny buildings? Of course. But to claim the city looks like a brown pile of shit is just idiotic. Likewise to claim that our current drawcards are getting us nowhere is just dumb. You'd have a point if we got close to zero tourists coming through, but that simply isn't true.

If you do a a Google Image search on Adelaide, most of the first lot of images are pretty good actually - mostly shots of the riverside area (which will only get better), and showing the city within the parklands surrounds.

Which neatly brings me to my next point. We are never going to compete with Sydney or Melbourne for sparkly skylines. We are never going to compete with Sydney for the harbour views. Simple as that. What we do have is huge amounts of parklands surrounding the city which can be an incredibly unique selling point and be Adelaide's defining feature in photographs. The current problem is that much of it is wasted, and much of it doesn't standout as it just blends in to low density surrounds. The riverbank masterplan, if fully implemented, will definitely help in that regard. A true, massive, urban park in a similar mould as Central Park. If this can flow through to unique areas for the rest of the parklands, and density build up along the park edges so that the parklands a much better defined, I think that will become the enduing and unique image of Adelaide — more so than any cluster of glass could.

[Will]

[
I think some people in this state, this forum included, need to pull their heads out of each others asses and breath some fresh air for a change.
Yes, all the things we know Adelaide is good for, wineries, flinders, etc, aren't some world beating tourist magnets. If they were, we'd be flooded with tourists. So would many many other places around the world.
We've been relying on those things for so long, and where has it gotten us? Nowhere.

Image is everything.
We are competing against each and every other city.
Our city looks like a pile of dog shit. I dare you to tell me it doesn't.

People look up Adelaide, and those images of our disgusting CBD come up. Who in their right mind would continue to look into Adelaide after seeing the brown pile of shit that is our cbd? Only the few who have heard of Adelaide before, and know a thing or two about it.


Adelaide needs a new image, it needs a make over.

Unless we are content with what we have and the small increases each year in international visitors to our city. Then yes, what we have and what we are doing is just fine.

I accept your dare. Our CBD does not look like dog shit.

No-one here would argue against a new tallest building, however your argument is simply ridiculous, and reminds me of something a 14 year old boy would say.

You will never convince anyone of your argument if you back it up with outrageous and idiotic comments.

[rev]

[
I think some people in this state, this forum included, need to pull their heads out of each others asses and breath some fresh air for a change.
Yes, all the things we know Adelaide is good for, wineries, flinders, etc, aren't some world beating tourist magnets. If they were, we'd be flooded with tourists. So would many many other places around the world.
We've been relying on those things for so long, and where has it gotten us? Nowhere.

Image is everything.
We are competing against each and every other city.
Our city looks like a pile of dog shit. I dare you to tell me it doesn't.

People look up Adelaide, and those images of our disgusting CBD come up. Who in their right mind would continue to look into Adelaide after seeing the brown pile of shit that is our cbd? Only the few who have heard of Adelaide before, and know a thing or two about it.


Adelaide needs a new image, it needs a make over.

Unless we are content with what we have and the small increases each year in international visitors to our city. Then yes, what we have and what we are doing is just fine.

I accept your dare. Our CBD does not look like dog shit.

No-one here would argue against a new tallest building, however your argument is simply ridiculous, and reminds me of something a 14 year old boy would say.

You will never convince anyone of your argument if you back it up with outrageous and idiotic comments.

This looks good and appealing does it? Looks modern does it?

Every other city has changed and evolved, visibly.
Sure ours has changed, and it's visible from many places on ground level. But our skyline is virtually the same as it was god knows how many years ago.

I understand why and all that.
All I'm saying is that we can argue back and forth all we want with people who bash Adelaide. But it wont make a major difference. You said your self you don't take part on SSC because of that stuff anymore. It's a lost cause arguing with people.
It wont make a major difference because when someone looks at an image of the Adelaide city as a whole, the skyline, it remains the same and unchanged.

That is the sad truth, like I said, image is everything. And Adelaide's image is what is seen in those photos that come up first when you type in Adelaide or Adelaide City in Google Images.
And you can't ignore what comes up in Google, because it is the biggest, most popular search engine on the planet.
I dunno, maybe something can be done to index newer, more appealing and recent photos of the city?

[Matt]

Not sure you're helping your argument - that picture looks pretty appealing to me.

A couple of modern buildings would be nice (and as mentioned before, anything to finally surpass Westpac), but it's not the OTT doom and gloom of your rant.