First tolled tunnel -- where should it go?

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Maximus
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First tolled tunnel -- where should it go?

#1 Post by Maximus » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:05 pm

SA-ers, I’ve been following the debate about toll roads closely and have found it very interesting. One thing that particularly resonated with me was Claybro’s comment that Adelaide’s road network is very dysfunctional. Whilst I wouldn’t necessarily use the word dysfunctional, as we do have a logical network of roads, it’s a sentiment with which I broadly agree.

Having lived in Canberra for the past few years, I now find Adelaide a somewhat frustrating city in which to drive. Canberra has its own problems and peculiarities, but – like Adelaide – it is an elongated and spread-out city. However, Canberra is unique in having been designed post the invention of the motor car, which has permitted city planning that has certain advantages for that mode of transport. Canberra is blessed with a number of wide, non-stop arterial roads (generally 80kph) that mean it is generally relatively quick to get from one part of the city to another. In comparison, whenever I return to Adelaide now, I find the lack of non-stop arterial roads to be very frustrating.

Whilst Canberra obviously has a much lower population than Adelaide, it’s not just because of this that I find transport by car to be easier in Canberra. If I drive from Canberra to Sydney, for example, the highway eventually turns into the Eastern Distributor, winds its way through a non-stop corridor in and amongst Sydney’s south-western suburbs, and I don’t see any traffic lights at all until a tunnel spits me out right in the middle of the Sydney CBD. Sure, I pay $6 or $8 or whatever for the privilege, but I think it’s more than worth it.

Driving into Adelaide, on the other hand, I can either make the long trek through countless traffic lights and a variety of speed limits down Main North Road, or brave the parked cars and right-hand turners on Glen Osmond Road, which outside of peak times (when clearways are in force) is effectively a one-lane road. It seems a bit illogical to me, and is a source of frustration, that it’s far easier to drive into, or through, the CBD of a city with over four million people than a city of one million. Consequently, I’m very supportive of Adelaide building one or more toll roads, provided they’re in the right location.

I’m hoping we can turn our attention to what might be the realistic options for Adelaide’s first road tunnel. I don’t want this to turn into another debate about the pros and cons of tolls, because that’s what the toll road discussion is for. I’m assuming this would be a tolled tunnel. Towards the start of toll road thread, Aidan proposed some possible routes for tolled tunnels. I thought these were all sensible suggestions, but which one has the most realistic chance of being built? To my mind, there are two main options:

1. A tunnel beginning at the bottom of the SE freeway (entrance – ironically – probably near the old toll gate), following the line of Glen Osmond Road and Fullarton Road, and then depositing drivers onto Dequetteville Tce somewhere between Wakefield Road and Bartels Road. This obviously has the advantages of being able to bypass the congestion of both Glen Osmond Road and the Brittania Roundabout (possibly also reducing the ‘issue’ of that roundabout and/or permitting alternative solutions to ‘fix’ it). It’s also the notional route of the A1, and is part of Adelaide’s ‘ring route’. The tunnel would have a possible entry/exit point at the intersection of Fullarton and Greenhill Roads, and might also be supplemented by a shorter tunnel further north to better connect Mann Rd/Park Rd with Main North Road. I suspect such a tunnel would primarily benefit commuters, but there would probably be some freight benefits, too.

OR

2. A tunnel again beginning at the bottom of the freeway and following the line of Glen Osmond Road, but then turning to follow the line of Greenhill Road and eventually depositing drivers onto South Road. The exact location of this exit point would probably be determined by what ends up happening with South Road north of Anzac Hwy. This tunnel would have a possible entry/exit point on Glen Osmond Road in the parklands between Greenhill and Hutt Rds. I suspect this tunnel would have significant benefits for freight movements that come down the freeway and then need to get to the western suburbs.

I realise this is all very much future-gazing – a 10-20 year horizon at least – but I believe Adelaide will eventually come round to the idea of and need for toll roads. In any case, once the South Road upgrade nears completion, I can imagine there will be pressure for the government of the day to identify what its next priorities are for major road infrastructure improvements. Who knows, there's probably a section in the Dept of Infrastructure dedicated to this already...

Sorry for the long post. Keen to hear thoughts. Flaming to a minimum, if possible. :wink:

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Re: First tolled tunnel -- where should it go?

#2 Post by [Shuz] » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:02 pm

I reckon the first tolled tunnel will be underneath South Road between Regency Road and Henley Beach Roads... thereabouts.
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Re: First tolled tunnel -- where should it go?

#3 Post by AG » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:23 pm

[Shuz] wrote:I reckon the first tolled tunnel will be underneath South Road between Regency Road and Henley Beach Roads... thereabouts.
I think it should link into the South Road Superway and run southeast under Brompton and Bowden with split entrances at the south end to Port Road outside the Gaol and on to an upgraded James Congdon Drive. There's space for the tunnel entrances to be constructed at both of these locations and a few spots where emergency exists and exhaust towers could be placed (and potential to continue to link further south). That would bypass up to 13 sets of lights and a railway crossing on the existing route, create a non stop route from Adelaide CBD all the way to the Barossa Valley, provide an alternative to existing northern suburban arterials including Churchill Road, Prospect Road and Main North Road (and hence traffic through North Adelaide), and the length would be roughly on par with the newly opened Airport Link in Brisbane.

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Re: First tolled tunnel -- where should it go?

#4 Post by jk1237 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:35 pm

I think it should be a rail line underneath the city centre

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Re: First tolled tunnel -- where should it go?

#5 Post by claybro » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:37 pm

I like the idea of AG as it builds on from the already constructed superway. By linking onto an upgraded James congdon drive it would remove alot of traffic from the Thebarton/Mile End section of South Road.There is plenty of room along James Congdon to widen and continue the tollway on the surface.It could then link up to an upgraded south road. I think any route under Glen Osmond Road is NOT suitable as it would encourage peak hour traffic from the hills into the CBD. Also it would encourage trucks onto Dequtteville Tce and through North Adelaide (Anne would be horrified) to access the Northern suburbs. Eventually a toll tunnel could be built under Cross Road from the Toll Gate to an upgraded South Road. This would then create a partial outer ring and remove some trucks from the Portrush Road/Glen Osmond Road/Greenhill Rd. Cheers to Maximus for confirming that motorists from other cities (as do many in my industry) do find Adelaide's road system frustrating and inadequate.

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Re: First tolled tunnel -- where should it go?

#6 Post by ml69 » Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:10 am

I also like AG's idea of a tunnel connecting the South Rd Superway to James Congdon Drive. Would benefit both freight traffic and commuters, but still provides a good link to the airport too. I've always thought the James Congdon Dr could be employed as part of a non-stop north-south route as it's wide enough with very little activity direct fronting the route.

As a next step once South Rd is finished (but probably 20+ years out), I like Maximus' second suggestion of a tunnel from the tollgate following Glen Osmond Rd, and then veering left following Greenhill Rd to connect to upgraded South Rd (near Richmond Rd intersection). The tunnel section along Greenhill Rd could be cut and cover along the parklands to reduce cost.

This would provide amazing benefits for freight as you could drive from the tollgate past the CBD then onto Gawler without a single set of traffic lights! It would connect all our freeway systems and truly become Adelaide's equivalent of Citylink.

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Re: First tolled tunnel -- where should it go?

#7 Post by Maximus » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:53 am

I agree with the idea of a tunnel starting at the southern end of the Superway and coming out somewhere to the NW of the CBD. However – would this be part of the upgrade of South Rd between Anzac Hwy and the Superway, or in addition to it?

If it’s the latter, is this not unnecessary duplication? If it’s the former, then perhaps it makes more sense for the southern exits to be (a) somewhere on South Rd as close as possible to the Gallipoli underpass, and (b) on the section of Port Rd that passes the brewery (this would allow for connections either to the CBD or onto the ring route)...?

I suppose one the main questions that would dictate the location of a tunnel would be freight routes. That’s one reason for suggesting the tunnel under Glen Osmond Road and past the Britannia Roundabout, because don’t a lot of trucks already come down the freeway and then take the ring route to the northern suburbs? Can anyone give us a better insight into the main routes that trucks use in Adelaide – where are they generally going to and from?
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Re: First tolled tunnel -- where should it go?

#8 Post by [Shuz] » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:24 am

Agree about utilising James Congdon Drive between South Road and Port Road as part of the solution to a north-south corridor. :)
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Re: First tolled tunnel -- where should it go?

#9 Post by crawf » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:49 am

Glen Osmond Road can already be a nightmare in peakhour and it's going to get worse with increasing number of people moving to the Adelaide Hills and Murray Bridge. Not to mention the increasing traffic from motorists and freight travelling from the South East and beyond, so something will need to be done in the future. And considering the road is lined with businesses and homes (some heritage listed), the cost to widen the road would run well into the hundreds of millions so only option is for a tolled tunnel. It may sound very pie in the sky now, but I can see it being a reality in the long term future.

However I believe somewhere on South Road will be the first tolled section in SA.
AG wrote:
[Shuz] wrote:I reckon the first tolled tunnel will be underneath South Road between Regency Road and Henley Beach Roads... thereabouts.
I think it should link into the South Road Superway and run southeast under Brompton and Bowden with split entrances at the south end to Port Road outside the Gaol and on to an upgraded James Congdon Drive. There's space for the tunnel entrances to be constructed at both of these locations and a few spots where emergency exists and exhaust towers could be placed (and potential to continue to link further south). That would bypass up to 13 sets of lights and a railway crossing on the existing route, create a non stop route from Adelaide CBD all the way to the Barossa Valley, provide an alternative to existing northern suburban arterials including Churchill Road, Prospect Road and Main North Road (and hence traffic through North Adelaide), and the length would be roughly on par with the newly opened Airport Link in Brisbane.
Love your thinking AG. James Congdon Drive is already a good stretch of road, despite the ridiculous 1x1 section between South Road & Sir Donald Bradman.

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Re: First tolled tunnel -- where should it go?

#10 Post by claybro » Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:59 pm

Maximus wrote:I agree with the idea of a tunnel starting at the southern end of the Superway and coming out somewhere to the NW of the CBD. However – would this be part of the upgrade of South Rd between Anzac Hwy and the Superway, or in addition to it?
I imagine that the tunnel could start to South end of Superway ,link onto James Congdon and then South Road. This would remove the need to upgrade South Roud through Croydon Park, Ridleyton, Thebarton, Mile End, Also no grade separtion intersections at Regency/Torrens/Port/Henley Beach/SirDon. so no duplication in this section. The problem will then be South Road once the tollway ends at South Road Richmond. South Road corridor is quite wide in this section, so maybe Richmond road can go over South Road, with another toll tunnel under Edwardstown ETC.

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Re: First tolled tunnel -- where should it go?

#11 Post by Aidan » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:05 pm

Maximus wrote:To my mind, there are two main options:

1. A tunnel beginning at the bottom of the SE freeway (entrance – ironically – probably near the old toll gate), following the line of Glen Osmond Road and Fullarton Road, and then depositing drivers onto Dequetteville Tce somewhere between Wakefield Road and Bartels Road. This obviously has the advantages of being able to bypass the congestion of both Glen Osmond Road and the Brittania Roundabout (possibly also reducing the ‘issue’ of that roundabout and/or permitting alternative solutions to ‘fix’ it). It’s also the notional route of the A1, and is part of Adelaide’s ‘ring route’. The tunnel would have a possible entry/exit point at the intersection of Fullarton and Greenhill Roads, and might also be supplemented by a shorter tunnel further north to better connect Mann Rd/Park Rd with Main North Road. I suspect such a tunnel would primarily benefit commuters, but there would probably be some freight benefits, too.

OR

2. A tunnel again beginning at the bottom of the freeway and following the line of Glen Osmond Road, but then turning to follow the line of Greenhill Road and eventually depositing drivers onto South Road. The exact location of this exit point would probably be determined by what ends up happening with South Road north of Anzac Hwy. This tunnel would have a possible entry/exit point on Glen Osmond Road in the parklands between Greenhill and Hutt Rds. I suspect this tunnel would have significant benefits for freight movements that come down the freeway and then need to get to the western suburbs.
I think a shorter version of option 2 would be best to start off with: Under Glen Osmond Road all the way to the Parklands, with exits onto Greenhill Road and Hutt Street (as well as Glen Osmond Road itself). Provision should be made for subsequent tunnels both under the South Parklands and the East Parklands (plus a bus tunnel to Frome Street).

As well as the need to reduce the initial cost, there's a good technical reason for those to be constructed as a separate project: there is likely to be a much greater need to limit ground settlement below Glen Osmond Road than under the Parklands, which may make cheaper tunnelling techniques suitable for the latter.

As to claybro's objection that it would encourage peak hour traffic from the hills into the CBD, I don't see a problem with that. Hills residents shouldn't be denied the economic benefits of their proximity to the CBD, and if they're willing to pay the toll to do so, so much the better. And it's better to encourage people to commute on a route served by buses than one that buses can't serve so easily.

Would it lead to more trucks on the City streets? Possibly a few, but the number of traffic lights they'd encounter doing so should make bypassing it a more attractive option for most.
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Re: First tolled tunnel -- where should it go?

#12 Post by claybro » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:46 pm

Aidan wrote: 2. A tunnel again beginning at the bottom of the freeway and following the line of Glen Osmond Road, but then turning to follow the line of Greenhill Road and eventually depositing drivers onto South Road.
Agree! A direct link tollway from the SE Freeway to the North/ South corridor is a must.(I tought maybe under Cross Raod but this route is better) the current routing heavy transport along Portrush Road onto Hampsted Road ETC is very ineffiecient and a blight to the surrounding mainly residential areas. I do think a North/ South tollway via the route discussed by AG should take priority. Would suggest though, to prevent the Glen Osmond tollway being crowded with commuters, an upgrade of the hills train to Mt Barker by straightening the line and speeding up the service would help. Additional express busses will only get held up in the tunnel exits in peak hours.[

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Re: First tolled tunnel -- where should it go?

#13 Post by Aidan » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:22 am

claybro wrote:
Aidan wrote: 2. A tunnel again beginning at the bottom of the freeway and following the line of Glen Osmond Road, but then turning to follow the line of Greenhill Road and eventually depositing drivers onto South Road.
You've misattributed this, as I was only quoting Maximus's original post.
Agree! A direct link tollway from the SE Freeway to the North/ South corridor is a must.(I tought maybe under Cross Raod but this route is better) the current routing heavy transport along Portrush Road onto Hampsted Road ETC is very ineffiecient and a blight to the surrounding mainly residential areas. I do think a North/ South tollway via the route discussed by AG should take priority. Would suggest though, to prevent the Glen Osmond tollway being crowded with commuters, an upgrade of the hills train to Mt Barker by straightening the line and speeding up the service would help. Additional express busses will only get held up in the tunnel exits in peak hours.[
There are many things rail's well suited to. This is not one of them - withut going to the expense of an entirely new line (mostly in tunnel) the train jouney times would not even be competitive with bus jouney times on the freeway/tollway.

The toll itself should be the only tollway feature to discourage commuters. It should be set high in the peaks and low at other times.
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Re: First tolled tunnel -- where should it go?

#14 Post by crawf » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:47 am

claybro wrote:
Maximus wrote:I agree with the idea of a tunnel starting at the southern end of the Superway and coming out somewhere to the NW of the CBD. However – would this be part of the upgrade of South Rd between Anzac Hwy and the Superway, or in addition to it?
I imagine that the tunnel could start to South end of Superway ,link onto James Congdon and then South Road. This would remove the need to upgrade South Roud through Croydon Park, Ridleyton, Thebarton, Mile End, Also no grade separtion intersections at Regency/Torrens/Port/Henley Beach/SirDon. so no duplication in this section. The problem will then be South Road once the tollway ends at South Road Richmond. South Road corridor is quite wide in this section, so maybe Richmond road can go over South Road, with another toll tunnel under Edwardstown ETC.
The section between Port and Torrens Road needs to be upgraded and widen regardless, it's an ugly stretch of road.

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Re: First tolled tunnel -- where should it go?

#15 Post by claybro » Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:30 am

Aidan wrote:There are many things rail's well suited to. This is not one of them - withut going to the expense of an entirely new line (mostly in tunnel) the train jouney times would not even be competitive with bus jouney times on the freeway/tollway.
Im a bit confused and perhaps you guys can enlighten me. We are happy for a vision of toll tunnels under the length of Glen Osmond and Greenhill Roads etc, but the idea of a similar distance of tunneling in the hills and electrification to straighten some of the long diversions and ultimately speed up the train from mt Barker is dismissed.A toll on the fare from Mt Barker and railfreight toll could be set to help pay for this. The bus servce up there is already a nightmare in peak. I believe a Glen OSmond tollway although great for transport will not resolve commuter issues as busses do not have the capacity of trains and will further conjest the city end of the tollway exits. A decent public transport option is a must in conjunction with the tollway.

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