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Vision: CBD Underground Rail Loop
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:06 pm
by [Shuz]
With the release of the Adelaide City Council's Integrated Movement Strategy a couple of weeks ago, and the Liberal Party's annoucement stating that if returned to power for a second term in 2018 - assuming victory in 2014 - both have expressed their support for a CBD underground rail loop.
It got me thinking today, should it become a reality, just exactly how will it look and work?
I'd likely presume that any such venture would be done fairly cheaply - nothing grandiose, given the State doesn't have that kind of money sitting around now, and I doubt it still would come 2018-2024 (expected design/construction timeline).
It may only well serve to join the Gawler and Noarlunga lines into a contigous throughfare; that being the case would only require one single tunnel bore through the CBD, accomodating two tracks.
I'm doubtful that it would go all the way to the East End/Hindmarsh Square (as the ACC's preferred option indicates) and would only go to the Victoria Square/Central Markets precinct, before rejoining the Noarlunga line somewhere in the Western Parklands - thats a given, regardless of the outcome.
As for the northern tunnel portal, the line would have to go underground before the Morphett Street Bridge, so I assume where the new 2-3 track stabling yard is now, would be the portal entry? Thus the tracks would dive under the existing tracks, requiring the Adelaide Railway Station reconfigured in some way to accomodate 2 new platforms beneath the existing platforms.
To accomodate the curve to Victoria Square/Central Markets, I'd again presume the new platforms would be offset about 100m west of the existing platforms, and run parallel somewhere in between, or directly beneath either King William Street and Gawler Place, before making another hook west into the Central Markets/Victoria Square precinct.
It would make sense to undergo a redevelopment of the Central Markets at the same time (subject to market conditions) for the Government, ACC to go into a PPP arrangement with the private sector to fund the costs of building the new station and tunnels through the area, to offset the costs of construction in exchange for redevelopment and construction of office/apartment towers above the market floor.
I also understand that the soil/ground which Adelaide is built upon is actually unfavourable (although not impossible) for tunnel construction so that could complicate things on where exactly the route would have to go and the tunnel portals...
That would cover the basic need of a CBD loop - anything else in my view, would be a bonus.
What are other forumer's thoughts/views on the matter?
Re: Vision: CBD Underground Rail Loop
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:49 pm
by dsriggs
Ideally, I'd like something like this:
Re: Vision: CBD Underground Rail Loop
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:05 pm
by Nathan
Just a thought, but does it actually need to be a complete loop? ie. If we take something like dsriggs' version, have the Gawler and Outer Harbour lines come in to Adelaide Station, head around Hindmarsh Sq and Victoria Sq, and then instead of looping back through parks 25 & 26 to Keswick to become the Nourlunga and Belair lines. With such a limited number of stops in the CBD, the time saving of going through a complete loop would be minimal.
Re: Vision: CBD Underground Rail Loop
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:18 pm
by claybro
Maybe if ALL trains travelled via the underground tunnel, and out the outher side would negate the need for train layovers and turn around. ie. The Gawler train (as mentioned previously) could go via the new underground platforms at Adelaide station, through Gawler place station, under the Central Markets and back out to join the Noarlunga line.The Outer Harbour train could tralel via the same tunnel, under the city, stoping at same CBD stations, then join the track again south but this train could travel on to the Belair line. The surface station platforms (exisitng Adelaide) could be used for interstate trains again.
Re: Vision: CBD Underground Rail Loop
Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:10 am
by mattblack
[Shuz] wrote:With the release of the Adelaide City Council's Integrated Movement Strategy a couple of weeks ago, and the Liberal Party's annoucement stating that if returned to power for a second term in 2018 - assuming victory in 2014 - both have expressed their support for a CBD underground rail loop.
It got me thinking today, should it become a reality, just exactly how will it look and work?
I'd likely presume that any such venture would be done fairly cheaply - nothing grandiose, given the State doesn't have that kind of money sitting around now, and I doubt it still would come 2018-2024 (expected design/construction timeline).
It may only well serve to join the Gawler and Noarlunga lines into a contigous throughfare; that being the case would only require one single tunnel bore through the CBD, accomodating two tracks.
I'm doubtful that it would go all the way to the East End/Hindmarsh Square (as the ACC's preferred option indicates) and would only go to the Victoria Square/Central Markets precinct, before rejoining the Noarlunga line somewhere in the Western Parklands - thats a given, regardless of the outcome.
As for the northern tunnel portal, the line would have to go underground before the Morphett Street Bridge, so I assume where the new 2-3 track stabling yard is now, would be the portal entry? Thus the tracks would dive under the existing tracks, requiring the Adelaide Railway Station reconfigured in some way to accomodate 2 new platforms beneath the existing platforms.
To accomodate the curve to Victoria Square/Central Markets, I'd again presume the new platforms would be offset about 100m west of the existing platforms, and run parallel somewhere in between, or directly beneath either King William Street and Gawler Place, before making another hook west into the Central Markets/Victoria Square precinct.
It would make sense to undergo a redevelopment of the Central Markets at the same time (subject to market conditions) for the Government, ACC to go into a PPP arrangement with the private sector to fund the costs of building the new station and tunnels through the area, to offset the costs of construction in exchange for redevelopment and construction of office/apartment towers above the market floor.
I also understand that the soil/ground which Adelaide is built upon is actually unfavourable (although not impossible) for tunnel construction so that could complicate things on where exactly the route would have to go and the tunnel portals...
That would cover the basic need of a CBD loop - anything else in my view, would be a bonus.
What are other forumer's thoughts/views on the matter?
Just clarifying that the Integrated Movement Strategy (IMS) was a working title and is now officially called the Smart Move Strategy (SMS).
In regard to the interstate trains. Its not going to happen, the trains are way, way,way to long for the current platforms and the extra movements that would be needed to couple and uncouple locomotives from the front of the train to the back of the train in order for it to leave the station, within the already constrained and busy Adelaide station would be near on impossible or at the very least a engineering headf**k and bloody expensive. The Keswick terminal is fine, it just need way better connection to the CBD.
Re: Vision: CBD Underground Rail Loop
Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:27 am
by PeFe
This is my preferred vision of an underground CBD railway ...not a loop but more of a north-south tunnel. All Adelaide Metro trains would use the tunnel.The Gawler-Seaford line would essentially be one train line whilst the Belair- Outer Harbor could be one continuous journey or else there would be turnback facilities at RAH and South Tce so trains could return the way the came (ie the Belair train terminating at RAH and the Outer Harbor train terminating at South Tce)
Re: Vision: CBD Underground Rail Loop
Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:16 pm
by Maximus
The news article about the Smart Move Strategy made it sound (to me, anyway) as if the Council already had a specific route in mind. I wonder if Cr Plumridge, or anyone else, could advise us whether this is indeed the case...?
Re: Vision: CBD Underground Rail Loop
Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:38 pm
by mattblack
PeFe wrote:This is my preferred vision of an underground CBD railway ...not a loop but more of a north-south tunnel. All Adelaide Metro trains would use the tunnel.The Gawler-Seaford line would essentially be one train line whilst the Belair- Outer Harbor could be one continuous journey or else there would be turnback facilities at RAH and South Tce so trains could return the way the came (ie the Belair train terminating at RAH and the Outer Harbor train terminating at South Tce)
Cant have the Belair-Outer Harbor as a continious corridor, Belair is not going to be electrified in the foreseeable future. Could have a Tonsley-Outer Harbor connection instead.
Re: Vision: CBD Underground Rail Loop
Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:10 pm
by monotonehell
PeFe wrote:This is my preferred vision of an underground CBD railway ...not a loop but more of a north-south tunnel. All Adelaide Metro trains would use the tunnel.The Gawler-Seaford line would essentially be one train line whilst the Belair- Outer Harbor could be one continuous journey or else there would be turnback facilities at RAH and South Tce so trains could return the way the came (ie the Belair train terminating at RAH and the Outer Harbor train terminating at South Tce)
You put "KWS" station in the centre of the northern half of KWS, so why did you put a station all the way on South tce? You'd be better off pacing it in the centre of the Southern part of KWS that way it's equidistant from more of southern Adelaide instead of all the way on the edge of the parklands.
Re: Vision: CBD Underground Rail Loop
Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:41 pm
by PeFe
Mattblack wrote
Cant have the Belair-Outer Harbor as a continious corridor, Belair is not going to be electrified in the foreseeable future. Could have a Tonsley-Outer Harbor connection instead.
Ok Tonsley-Outer Harbor at first before the Belair line is electrified (and the freight trains banished to the northern suburbs)
Monotonehell wrote
You put "KWS" station in the centre of the northern half of KWS, so why did you put a station all the way on South tce? You'd be better off pacing it in the centre of the Southern part of KWS that way it's equidistant from more of southern Adelaide instead of all the way on the edge of the parklands.
Here is a new location for the southern CBD station
Re: Vision: CBD Underground Rail Loop
Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:58 pm
by claybro
Dont know about the KWS alignment as it follows exactly the tram route, and many bus routes. Would preferr to see the line in a large arc, at least as far east as Gawler Place, if not Hindmarsh square to connect the East End., then back under Vic Sq for the Central Market /Gouger St precinct. Could then link up back to Southern lines near Keswick. The underground North Tce station could be immediately west of the current station, to cater for the Hospital, convention centre and football crowds. Another station under Hindmarsh SQ with an entry off Rundle Mall, and then a station adjacent Vic SQ with an entrance from Gouger Street. Then southwest to Keswick station. If all lines were electrified we could have Gawler to Belair line. Outer Harbour to Tonsley and Grange to Noarlunga. No trains would then require to change direction in the CBD, no layover time and transferring to other lines would be a simple process at any of the CBD stations.
Re: Vision: CBD Underground Rail Loop
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:40 am
by [Shuz]
Have to agree Claybro - I'd much rather they build a CBD thoroughfare, than a loop for all train services.
Preferably I wish they'd opt for an alignment underneath Gawler Place with a central CBD stop at Victoria Square (the actual station would be due east of the Square) with the entrance/exit feeding into the plaza adjacent St. Xavier's Cathedral.
I disagree with the view that there should be multiple stops in the City, say at Rundle Mall and City South
Re: Vision: CBD Underground Rail Loop
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:11 am
by Ben
New masterplan plans to run part of Outer Harbor rail line underground:
Urban Affairs Reporter Alice Higgins
From:
adelaidenow
December 10, 2012
A NEW masterplan for an under-used section of the parklands proposes a $15 million pedestrian bridge, youth precinct and community orchards - and running the Outer Harbor rail line underground.
The Renewal SA masterplan, which will go before an Adelaide City Council meeting tonight, proposes a two-staged redevelopment of about 5ha of parklands between Port Rd and Park Tce.
The multimillion-dollar park upgrade is designed to complement the State Government's $1 billion Bowden housing development, which will have 3500 residents.
It features the Government's $443 million plan to run part of the Outer Harbor rail line underground, between the Torrens Junction in the parklands and Chief St, Brompton, and build an underground station under Bowden Urban Village.
The Federal Government has allocated $232 million toward the project, which would not start until 2016.
An artist impression of the proposed multimillion-dollar upgrade to an under-used section of the parklands.
The plan also includes a $15 million pedestrian bridge over the city's ring route. The bridge, included in the Bowden costings, would rise above Park Tce and funnel pedestrians into a plaza.
The Grieve Gillett designs, endorsed by the Adelaide Park Lands Authority last week, also propose:
8000sq m of orchards with fruit and nut trees and 3000sq m of community gardens.
YOUTH area with table tennis and skating facilities.
MULTI-PURPOSE building with change rooms, public toilets and meeting areas
MULTI-USE sports court.
40-SPACE carpark.
AVENUE of gum trees along Park Tce.
RECONSTRUCTED soccer fields.
Stage two of the project, including the multi-purpose building, sports court and upgraded soccer fields, are contingent on the Outer Harbor rail line being run underground.
The Government has so far contributed $4.9 million to the plan, which will be released for public consultation next week.
Renewal SA chief executive Fred Hansen wanted to partner with the city council, sports clubs and community groups to deliver the plan.
"These parklands are a jewel in the rough," Mr Hansen said.
Re: Vision: CBD Underground Rail Loop
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:51 pm
by rev
Here's my idea..a little more then an underground CBD train loop, sorry got carried away.
Light blue = existing tram line
Pink/dashed pink = existing train line
Red = new underground train line
Yellow = new tram line
Northbound tram line to North Adelaide, possibly up to Prospect
Southbound tram line to Unley
A big loop encompassing the west and east of the city, and a smaller loop in the south/south east corner of the city, servicing the residential areas that will most likely see higher density.
Underground train line to Norwood
Underground train line to the Airport
A small underground loop in the CBD.
And a small underground extension to Adelaide Oval
The existing Outerharbor line undergrounded from Bowden onwards into the city.
Re: Vision: CBD Underground Rail Loop
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:50 pm
by PeFe
I can't see the map...can anyone else?
Edit : Now I can !