Is Adelaide ever going to have Highway or Tunnel?

[wll6568]

With all other capital cities in Aus having highway for people to drive straight into CBD, seems like Adelaide is the only one having no Highway, and I mean like real Highway, not like Anzac Highway. I guess with all the houses built by main road, it seems impossible anymore... But perhaps tunnel idea?? It's a pain to drive from south to CBD with all the speed limit being 60km/h. A tunnel would definitely ease the transport and make transport a lot better.

[Will]

I think you mean freeway.

[claybro]

Current thinking from mistakes made elsewhere is not to have freeway access direct to CBD's as from experience in other cities, it creates problems by encouraging commuter traffic to drive into the CBD which then becomes clogged with cars, rather than city commuters using public transit. Where freeways exist directly feeding into CBD's, exit ramps become heavily conjested, banking back onto the freeway itself, rendering the freeway a carpark in peak commuter time. Better that the freeway is situated passing the cbd a couple of kilometers away with plenty of exit/entry points to roads leading into the CBD, to spread the load, making use of existing road infastructure as well.

[PeFe]

Where do all these cars go once they have entered the CBD? Massive carparks...how many carparks can a CBD have without turning the area into a gigantic car storeage area? All these freeway arguments are a rerun of 1940's/1950's America.....lets build freeways so we can drive everywhere....but this has consequences..parking issues/pollution issues/sustainability issues...Cities need good public transport, investment in that area can lower the need for freeways. Adelaide has wide main roads (bigger than Sydney) more investment in public transport (as is happening) is a better "overall" solution.

[Aidan]

Where do all these cars go once they have entered the CBD? Massive carparks...how many carparks can a CBD have without turning the area into a gigantic car storeage area? All these freeway arguments are a rerun of 1940's/1950's America.....lets build freeways so we can drive everywhere....but this has consequences..parking issues/pollution issues/sustainability issues...Cities need good public transport, investment in that area can lower the need for freeways. Adelaide has wide main roads (bigger than Sydney) more investment in public transport (as is happening) is a better "overall" solution.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, and the Melbourne CBD doesn't look like a car storage area!

Public transport should take priority, but tunnels can serve more than one function. They can carry traffic both past and to the CBD. And they can carry buses as well as cars and trucks. Tolls can be set to prevent them getting too congested.

[claybro]

Public transport should take priority, but tunnels can serve more than one function. They can carry traffic both past and to the CBD. And they can carry buses as well as cars and trucks. Tolls can be set to prevent them getting too congested.

Although I agree with freeway tolls to fund better roads, higher freeway tolls should not be used as a means to discourage commuter traffic entering the city. It punishes those who need to use the freeway as a through route such as transport, couriers, delivery drivers, inter suburban traffic etc.And if you deem it necessary to have a high toll to discourage traffic entering the cty, why construct a tunnel to take traffic near the city in the first place? Commuter traffic should not be funneled near the city. If in doubt, try the Eastern Freeway exit to Hoddel street in Melbourne... Mitchell freeway exists to Perth CBD etc.a nightmare in peak hour.

[Aidan]

Public transport should take priority, but tunnels can serve more than one function. They can carry traffic both past and to the CBD. And they can carry buses as well as cars and trucks. Tolls can be set to prevent them getting too congested.

Although I agree with freeway tolls to fund better roads, higher freeway tolls should not be used as a means to discourage commuter traffic entering the city. It punishes those who need to use the freeway as a through route such as transport, couriers, delivery drivers, inter suburban traffic etc.

It punishes them far less than the congestion does.

And if you deem it necessary to have a high toll to discourage traffic entering the cty, why construct a tunnel to take traffic near the city in the first place?

To collect more toll revenue, without which a tunnel would be uneconomic.

Commuter traffic should not be funneled near the city. If in doubt, try the Eastern Freeway exit to Hoddel street in Melbourne... Mitchell freeway exists to Perth CBD etc.a nightmare in peak hour.

Both without tolls.

[MessiahAndrw]

I hope we don't have a CBD freeway. I have seen the effect of this on many cities in the United States, and while I have still seen some great cities, more often than not it's drained the life out of them.

Look at satellite images of Houston: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=houston& ... Texas&z=16

St. Louis: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=st+louis ... souri&z=16

Oklahoma City: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Oklahoma ... ahoma&z=16

Notice how much single level ground parking they have.

Many of these cities have had their life drained out of them, literally. Single use office buildings, large cement walls, no where to walk to, maybe 1 pedestrian per block if you're lucky;
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=kansas+c ... .7,,0,5.04

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=oklahoma ... 1,,0,-1.48

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=st+louis ... 27,,0,1.65

Yes, there are exceptions - New York City, Portland, but they're in the minority.

I'm grateful I grew up in Adelaide. Take a trip into the CBD and look around. People on the streets, partiers on Hindly Street, shoppers on Rundle Mall, suits on Grenfell St, students all over North Terrace. It feels alive. Now that I don't have it, I crave it

Let's keep our CBD transit oriented please. I've seen what happens otherwise.

[[Shuz]]

I can't believe there are literally swathes of empty blocks of land in what is supposed to be the CBDs of St Louis and Oklahoma cities. It truly is bizarre.

[Nathan]

Yes, there are exceptions - New York City, Portland, but they're in the minority.

Actually, you'd be surprised at how many open lot carparks Portland has. In most cases they take up the entire block (although to be fair, Portlands blocks are pretty small).
Although, many of those carparks are commandeered by food trucks along the street edges, so they're not the life draining holes they are in other cities.

[MessiahAndrw]

I can't believe there are literally swathes of empty blocks of land in what is supposed to be the CBDs of St Louis and Oklahoma cities. It truly is bizarre.

It suburban flight taken to the extremes. I've met many people that try to distance themselves from the "city" which conjures up images on crime, gangs, dilapidated buildings (and who blames them when that's their only experience of a 'city') so business campuses, strip malls, outer suburban living is seen as desirable.

To me, growing up in Australia, a city makes me think of department stores, cafes, pedestrian malls, street life. It's a truly bizarre conflict of perception that I blogged about it (http://www.andrewalexanderprice.com/blog20130430.php, http://www.andrewalexanderprice.com/blog20121102.php).

[Vormund]

Pity the Metropolitan Adelaide Transport Study never got off the ground then...missed opportunity there.

[dsriggs]

Not gonna find much support for MATS around here, methinks.

[monotonehell]

Not gonna find much support for MATS around here, methinks.

Not completely true.

Parts of MATS have been adopted.
Parts of MATS should be adopted.
It's good that parts of MATS were not adopted (specifically all the freeway feeders in inner suburbs, which would have lead to a dead heart as other cities discovered)
And parts of MATS should not be adopted as they are no longer appropriate.

[[Shuz]]

Not gonna find much support for MATS around here, methinks.

Wrong.

I support the MATS Plan for the most part.

Key notable elements according to the map on the Wikipedia page which I don't support:
The Port Freeway, Glenelg Expressway, Hills Freeway, Modbury Rapid Bus Transit and Tonsley Rapid Bus Transit.

Everything else, IMO should be built (if it hasn't already been in some form).