Discussion: Development of Adelaide Railyards

[Pikey]

Play nicely kiddies......

[bm7500]

In other news...

I was sooo pissed of last night when i saw an advert on TV for the Marj and why we need it.. blah blah blah.. Now the Government has resorted to prime time adverstising to 'sell us' the idea that we need a new hospital on the rail yards.

Mr Rann et al, i think there are much better ways to spend our tax payer dollars than resorting to a propaganda campaign for the 'Hospital we had to have'

- End of Rant -

Anyway, it seems im not the only one unhappy about misuse of govenment advertising for the 'Marj'...

Ads promoting The Marj labelled blatant political propaganda

NEW television advertisements supporting the Marjorie Jackson-Nelson Hospital have sparked calls for a parliamentary inquiry into government advertising.

The new ads, which began screening over the weekend, show people supporting the new hospital and opposing the alternative - a rebuild of the Royal Adelaide Hospital.

The future of the $1.7 billion hospital, to be built over the old rail yards in the city's west, is now looming as a major election issue.

The Opposition is calling for the current RAH to be rebuilt and is being supported by a group of senior doctors and clinicians at the hospital.

Greens MLC Mark Parnell described the latest TV ads as "blatant political advertising" which had "clearly and openly stepped over the line".

Mr Parnell said the ads were not about informing the community.

"They've been designed simply to push Labor Party policy on the Marjorie Jackson-Nelson Hospital and to attack the position of the Liberals," he said.

"It is outrageous that SA taxpayers are paying for this political spin."

Mr Parnell said the new ads argued the merits of the new hospital but provided no new information, nor were they designed to change public behaviour.

"They are purely designed to push a political view," Mr Parnell said.

He said when Parliament resumed the Greens would move for a "short and focused" Upper House select committee to prepare a set of guidelines for appropriate advertising for government services.

GREG KELTON http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/stor ... 01,00.html

[rhino]

No offense meant Will, I did say in there "I'm sure you don't"

[Cruise]

can you watch the add on the internet somewhere? i haven't seen it yet, I have heard the radio add though

[Zills]

I was sooo pissed of last night when i saw an advert on TV for the Marj and why we need it.. blah blah blah.. Now the Government has resorted to prime time adverstising to 'sell us' the idea that we need a new hospital on the rail yards.

pretty sure they've been doing the same with the new AAMI stadium developments as well, at lest on the radio dunno about the telly..i bet media mike is behind this

[Norman]

I was sooo pissed of last night when i saw an advert on TV for the Marj and why we need it.. blah blah blah.. Now the Government has resorted to prime time adverstising to 'sell us' the idea that we need a new hospital on the rail yards.

pretty sure they've been doing the same with the new AAMI stadium developments as well, at lest on the radio dunno about the telly..i bet media mike is behind this

No, the SANFL was behind that campain.

[Zills]

ah, my mistake

[peas_and_corn]

I know I'm responding to points that are made in an article a couple pages back, but I've been busy recently...

If the meeting shows a lack of support for the Marj, the committee will widen the debate to public meetings. The key concerns of the Save the RAH group include:

A LACK of consultation by the State Government with the medical community or the AMA before the plan was announced;

A LACK of convincing arguments in favour of building the Marj;

Consultation would have been nice- if it had happened, would they have supported the Marj? The second point is conjecture- they don't think they're convincing.

MISINFORMATION about the state of the RAH, which they say has been substantially upgraded in recent years;

It certainly has been upgraded, but some of the problems are with the nature of the building- my other half had to cisit her father who was in a pressurised, isolated section of the building, and she had to take the lift to a different level, go sown stairs and then go into the air lock.

DESTRUCTION of the close working relationship between the RAH, Adelaide University Medical School, Hanson Institute and Institute of Medical and Veterinary Science, which are all on the one city campus;

Physical proximity is the only thing binding the hospitals? That sounds like a tenuous arrangement if that's all it's hinging on. I would say that those institutions will easily develop a working partnership with the Marj- otherwise Adelaide uni will lose all their med students to Flinders.

[Quote
ABOLITION of the brand name "Royal Adelaide Hospital" – world famous within medical circles.
[/Quote]

I agree, that's dumb.

Dr Katsaros, committee chairman and director of the plastic and reconstructive surgery at the RAH, said the group represented conservative people who otherwise would not want to be caught in a political row.

I suppose this is why I take their numbers (costs of upgrades) with a grain of salt- they're doctors, not engineers, what do they know about construction?

[Howie]

DESTRUCTION of the close working relationship between the RAH, Adelaide University Medical School, Hanson Institute and Institute of Medical and Veterinary Science, which are all on the one city campus;

Well if you don't mind having your blood taken on the city west precinct, then send it to IMVS on the east side, then wait for the results and then go back to city west... it's no big deal at all.

And if you're a med student, doesn't it make sense to work/study in a hospital? Afterall many of the lecturers in the school also practice in the hospital.. should we build a high speed link between the east and west side? Because seriously that's the only way I can see it working.

This will be no fun for me... as I work in one of the units mentioned above, and if we were split up.. i'd have to cross the cbd west to east, probably at least 3-4 times a day. Now.. for that 200km/h monorail or underground link.... what's another billion since while we're pissing away money for the hell of it.

I suppose this is why I take their numbers (costs of upgrades) with a grain of salt- they're doctors, not engineers, what do they know about construction?

Umm. they're not just doctors. It's everyone who works in the RAH. And E&BS have a lot to say about the shape of the buildings and it's future.. tell them they don't know anything about construction.

[peas_and_corn]

Ahh. the only names I've seen so far have been medical doctors.

[Howie]

Ahh. the only names I've seen so far have been medical doctors.

There were over a hundred people at the first meeting, most of them weren't doctors but people from across all disciplines.

[Will]

Science is a process whereby even ideas which have been held in high regard for a long period of time, when faced with overwhelming evidence must be amenable to change.

This sums up my position of the Marj. Scroll back through this or other similar threads and you will find that I initially approved of the Marj, and then my position changed to that of supporting a new hospital but not on the railyards. However I have been overwhelmed by the evidence that any new hospital has to remain on the RAH site.

And for me this is a particularly difficult position to assume, taking into account I am not a fan of the Liberals.

The points that Howie has explained above are spot on. The plans for the Marj seem to have been drawn up on the back of an envelope. There are so many problems which have not been properly addressed or even addressed at all.

For example regarding the medical school, let me tell you a personal story. Last year during our cardiology block we had a lecture regarding heart murmurs. The lecturer mentioned that some murmer have a crescendo sound whereas others have a decrescendo sound. Like many people doing medicine, I am not musically trained so such descriptions are meaningless to me. As such after the lecture, me and other students went over to the wards to listen to heart murmurs. So although I still have no idea what crescendo or decrescendo mean, I can now tell you the difference between a murmur of mitral valve prolapse and mitral valve stenosis. The reason why I bothered to do this was because we have access to patients on the wards just 100m away. Human nature the way it is, had I had to make my way 2km away or further (if the Marj is built at Keswick or Clipsal) I probabaly would not have bothered to visit the patients because for the exam they don't bring in a patient but rather you can get away with memorising what pathology causes crescendo or decrescendo...

So whilst I admit that making life harder for medical students is in itself not a good enough reason to stop the Marj, it is one of many reasons. And when you add all these reasons up they pass the threshold to make you realise how big a mistake building the Marj is.

For the many skyscraper and development fans, think of this. Aren't you bitterly dissapointed by the governemnt's complete lack of vision? What other self-respecting city would waste 2 prime sites for a hospital and the RAH site for student apartments and more parklands?

[fasterthanlids]

My comment above is not off topic! You have taken it out of context as it was posted in direct response to a comment Wayno made... If you read your own post, you go on to mention Keswick Barracks yourself

Chill out, no disrespect meant, I was warning that my own comment was going off topic. I can roll my eyes too...

My GF is a nurse too, and is strongly advocating a new hospital, but with the same reservations of proximity from the medical school that Will mentioned. However, it is the opinion of both her and her friends that the issues of improved day-to-day patient care and improved facilities are significantly more important.

[stelaras]

For example regarding the medical school, let me tell you a personal story. Last year during our cardiology block we had a lecture regarding heart murmurs. The lecturer mentioned that some murmer have a crescendo sound whereas others have a decrescendo sound. Like many people doing medicine, I am not musically trained so such descriptions are meaningless to me. As such after the lecture, me and other students went over to the wards to listen to heart murmurs. So although I still have no idea what crescendo or decrescendo mean, I can now tell you the difference between a murmur of mitral valve prolapse and mitral valve stenosis. The reason why I bothered to do this was because we have access to patients on the wards just 100m away. Human nature the way it is, had I had to make my way 2km away or further (if the Marj is built at Keswick or Clipsal) I probabaly would not have bothered to visit the patients because for the exam they don't bring in a patient but rather you can get away with memorising what pathology causes crescendo or decrescendo...

Im not going to go into the politics of moving the hospital or not...and if we do where to move it... I have stated my position on this before. However, from my sources and some of the people that are involved in this proposal from the RAH's perspective it is the intention that the RAH, Hanson Centre for Cancer Research, The medical School and the Dental School/hospital will be moving. The IMVS will be staying. Whether this changes in the future remains to be seen

[Howie]

From what I understand, the schools didn't have a clue about the Marj, and heard about it like everyone else did, through the news (edit: did someone say 'consultation'?). So they've been scurrying around trying to get accommodation for this imminent move. Nothing has been set in concrete, and it's not certain that there is any space in the new Marj. And by looking at the latest renders, I still don't see a purpose built building for any of the schools. So would they be moving into a new building on say North Terrace? Who knows at this stage.