Should the O-Bahn be converted to light rail?

Ideas and concepts of what Adelaide can be.
User avatar
PeFe
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1218
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:47 am

Should the O-Bahn be converted to light rail?

Post by PeFe »

I am wondering about the future of the O-Bahn? Does the track have to be renewed at some time in the near future? Would this be an opportunity to convert to light rail?

Do the bridges along the O-Bahn track need to be raised if light rail was built?

Are there any other technical/geographical impediments to be considered?

What could it look like if it was built?........I imagine something like the new light rail in Sydney using 2 Urbo 305 trams linked together giving you the potential of 474 passengers per ride (Thats 8 buses worth)

Grenfell/Currie would be a transit mall......light rail/buses/taxis/service vehicles.....thats it. Private passenger cars banned. This would also include a program to beautify both Grenfell and Currie.

Stops would be(large) islands in the centre of the street providing shelter from inclement weather and p.d.i's displaying tram arrivals ets.

There would be 3 stops...East End (between East Terrace and Frome Street) King William Street and Light Square.

This would necessitate transferring to buses from Paradise and Tea Tree Plaza (co-ordinated timetables of course)

Frequency.....every 8 minutes during business hours (including Saturday) and every 15 minutes the rest of the time.
bits
Legendary Member!
Posts: 673
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:24 pm

Re: Should the O-Bahn be converted to light rail?

Post by bits »


PeFe wrote: Frequency.....every 8 minutes during business hours (including Saturday) and every 15 minutes the rest of the time.
8 minutes! Yikes that would be an absurd reduction in service.
Try every 2 minutes in peak and maybe 8 minutes off peak.

Below is sample of some of the services that will run the obahn track on Monday morning. There is more.

ImageImage
User avatar
PeFe
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1218
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:47 am

Re: Should the O-Bahn be converted to light rail?

Post by PeFe »

And how many diesel spewing buses is that going into Grenfell/Currie Streets over one hour?.....
20?..30?
bits
Legendary Member!
Posts: 673
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:24 pm

Re: Should the O-Bahn be converted to light rail?

Post by bits »

PeFe wrote:And how many diesel spewing buses is that going into Grenfell/Currie Streets over one hour?.....
20?..30?
Easily Image

User avatar
Zills
Gold-Member ;)
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:59 pm

Re: Should the O-Bahn be converted to light rail?

Post by Zills »

I would be disappointed for this to happen. What makes the O-bahn so great is because it moves more people per hour than equivalent light rail or heavy rail and it's fast (Modbury to Hackney in 15 minutes). However, the track is ageing and will need replacement soon. Speed limits have been reduced in places due to corrugations on the track and I believe there were reports of concrete cancer a few years back. Who knows how much longer the track can last? 5-10 years?

If it were up to me, I would replace the track with a regular bitumen busway. This would potentially require widening of the corridor and hence extra bridge structures etc. This is probably also the cheapest in terms of future maintenance. :2cents:
bits
Legendary Member!
Posts: 673
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:24 pm

Re: Should the O-Bahn be converted to light rail?

Post by bits »


Zills wrote: What makes the O-bahn so great is because it moves more people per hour than equivalent light rail or heavy rail and it's fast (Modbury to Hackney in 15 minutes).
If I remember correctly the obahn has more users than all of Adelaide's rail combined. It is the public transport success story, yet people are forever wanting to downgrade it to the trash that other areas have.
User avatar
PeFe
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1218
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:47 am

Re: Should the O-Bahn be converted to light rail?

Post by PeFe »

Zills wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:50 pm
I would be disappointed for this to happen. What makes the O-bahn so great is because it moves more people per hour than equivalent light rail or heavy rail and it's fast (Modbury to Hackney in 15 minutes).
Yes it does at the moment........because the Adelaide heavy rail network has such low frequencies.......what if A-400'S ran every 5 minutes instead of every 15 minutes....thats 6480 people per hour
Image

or 2 Citadis Urbos 305 coupled together like in Sydney at 5 minute intervals.....that 5688 people.
Image

There is a very good reason the O-Bahn has NOT been copied around the world and that is capacity issues..
Goodsy
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1020
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:39 am

Re: Should the O-Bahn be converted to light rail?

Post by Goodsy »

Convert to heavy rail with an East-West tunnel connecting OH and Modbury lines
User avatar
Norman
Donating Member
Donating Member
Posts: 5995
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:06 pm

Re: Should the O-Bahn be converted to light rail?

Post by Norman »

The Amount of buses in Currie and Grenfell Street is unsustainable during our peak hours. If they continue down the bus route, then they really need to build a bus tunnel in the CBD. If not, then replace it with heavy rail.
bits
Legendary Member!
Posts: 673
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:24 pm

Re: Should the O-Bahn be converted to light rail?

Post by bits »


PeFe wrote: Yes it does at the moment........because the Adelaide heavy rail network has such low frequencies.......what if A-400'S ran every 5 minutes instead of every 15 minutes....thats 6480 people per hour
Obahn is said to have capacity of 18,000 an hour.

With your rail approach what kind of massive interchange upgrades do you have in mind for Tea Tree Plaza, Paradise, Klemzig and City?

You will need a bus and train interchange larger than Adelaide Railway Station at Tea Tree Plaza and another at the city.
Remember more people and services are going through these stations than Adelaide Railway Station currently.
User avatar
PeFe
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1218
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:47 am

Re: Should the O-Bahn be converted to light rail?

Post by PeFe »

bits wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:49 pm
Obahn is said to have capacity of 18,000 an hour.
That is 300 standard buses per hour...5 buses per minute....never gonna happen..

What is the actual number of passengers using the busway during peak hours?...3..4 thousand?
With your rail approach what kind of massive interchange upgrades do you have in mind for Tea Tree Plaza, Paradise, Klemzig and City?
Klemzig, Paradise and Tea Tree Plaza become more like (low floor) railway platforms, long and spacious. I would keep the arrivals platform separate from the main track so that express trams may pass if necessary.
Obviously the buses need to be spread out a little in the interchange area to disperse crowds.

The city end becomes slightly more difficult, especially the King William Street stop/station....this would have to be very carefully planned to alleviate congestion between trams/buses and pedestrians.

And does anyone know whether the O-Bahn tunnel at the end of Grenfell Street is compliant with light rail gradient needs? I have tried searching searching on the internet but can find no answers.
User avatar
Norman
Donating Member
Donating Member
Posts: 5995
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:06 pm

Re: Should the O-Bahn be converted to light rail?

Post by Norman »

Ridership is 31,000 per day, but no breakdown is provided. My best guess would be 33% (10,000) in morning peak, 33% (10,000) in afternoon peak and thew balance at other times.

Don't forget that you can couple the A-City Class trains together to double their capacity.
bits
Legendary Member!
Posts: 673
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:24 pm

Re: Should the O-Bahn be converted to light rail?

Post by bits »


PeFe wrote: Klemzig, Paradise and Tea Tree Plaza become more like (low floor) railway platforms, long and spacious. I would keep the arrivals platform separate from the main track so that express trams may pass if necessary.
Obviously the buses need to be spread out a little in the interchange area to disperse crowds.
Ttp interchange has no room currently with most passengers not interchanging at ttp, they just ride on through on the bus they are already on.

I would suggest the bus interchange alone would be maybe twice the size it is currently if all passengers were forced to get off and transfer to train. Then add the train interchange itself which would be maybe 2-3x the size of the current bus interchange.
Where would you build this?

Due to the large amount of passengers this station would be transferring from bus to train it would need lots of thought to make it efficient and safe. It will need a mass of stairs, escalators and lifts to get many thousands of people an hour between platforms. Like I said TTP alone will need to be bigger than Adelaide Railway Station.

Right now with buses the passengers are not loading/unloading on concentrated single interchanges which your train model would require.
User avatar
1NEEDS2POST
High Rise Poster!
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:01 pm

Re: Should the O-Bahn be converted to light rail?

Post by 1NEEDS2POST »

Norman wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:07 pm
The Amount of buses in Currie and Grenfell Street is unsustainable during our peak hours. If they continue down the bus route, then they really need to build a bus tunnel in the CBD. If not, then replace it with heavy rail.
No need to build a tunnel if they convert Currie and Grenfell Streets to transit malls.

The biggest problem right now for the O-Bahn is that the traffic lights in the city do not sense buses. It's a shame that the O-Bahn tunnel gets built, all for the buses to wait for a minute at the traffic lights at the entrance to Grenfell Street.

The O-Bahn needs to be expanded, not replaced. An O-Bahn track over Keswick Creek from the airport to James Congdon Drive would be great. Adelaide Airport would be incredibly easy to access from the city and few cities in the world would have a shorter trip from the CBD to the airport.
User avatar
Ho Really
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 2510
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:29 pm
Location: In your head

Re: Should the O-Bahn be converted to light rail?

Post by Ho Really »

PeFe wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:41 pm
I am wondering about the future of the O-Bahn? Does the track have to be renewed at some time in the near future? Would this be an opportunity to convert to light rail?
Light rail yes. Heavy rail no.
Do the bridges along the O-Bahn track need to be raised if light rail was built?
No. You can lower the track. Otherwise run by induction with no overhead wires and gantry.
Are there any other technical/geographical impediments to be considered?
Nothing that can't be done easily.
What could it look like if it was built?........I imagine something like the new light rail in Sydney using 2 Urbo 305 trams linked together giving you the potential of 474 passengers per ride (Thats 8 buses worth)
Possibly.
Grenfell/Currie would be a transit mall......light rail/buses/taxis/service vehicles.....thats it. Private passenger cars banned. This would also include a program to beautify both Grenfell and Currie.

Stops would be(large) islands in the centre of the street providing shelter from inclement weather and p.d.i's displaying tram arrivals ets.
Better if all underground all the way across town to MIle End/Keswick and continue as light rail to Airport.
There would be 3 stops...East End (between East Terrace and Frome Street) King William Street and Light Square.
About right if above ground. Underground better at Hindmarsh Square.

Cheers
Confucius say: Dumb man climb tree to get cherry, wise man spread limbs.
Post Reply