Is Adelaide a city of unnecessary signs?

Message

Damir Romanik · #1 Post by **Damir Romanik** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:47 pm

After visiting Auckland i definitely believe Adelaide has become a city of signs and not the city of churches.
It was very obvious after driving a car in Auckland for a few days that i felt more relaxed driving in a foreign city then i did im my own city that i have spent 40 years driving in.
I asked myself why do i feel better driving in Auckland and then it hit me, they only had necessary signs on the road designed for normal people that drive on them and that is about 90% of us.
We have too many signs close together saying the same things, if we were to read every sign we are suppose to, or else we get a fine if we dont, then we would become a hazzard on the road.
Example, On Magill road i get a sign every 100 meters telling me there is a bike lane on the side of the road on both sides of the road, now i know some people take drugs and smoke stuff that might influence their capability to remember things but i dont actually believe they should be on the road in the first place and i definitely dont need a sign at all as i can see the push bike picture on the road and can work out that this is a bike lane. We pay lots of money for this unnecessary polution that also creates a hazzardous obsticle for people walking on the foot path and really does not do much for the 10 pushbike riders that might use the lane in a day on average. I believe this is only one example of many of how no regard has been given to the beautiful city we use to have. Planners of this city should visit Auckland and see how it is suppose to be done. There should be a law put out that only a certain ammount of signeage is allowed in a distance not to unnecessarily distract, frustrate & confuse the drivers of Adelaide, i have noticed Auckland has less speed signs as well due to the fact they dont vary their speed limits so much in a short distance so this makes it much more simpler to be on the road and the environment looks a lot cleaner and more enjoyable to be in, i now understand why Adelaide drivers are regarded one of the worst in Australia and this is the reason why, we have side streets that have been destroyed through the years by HUMPS, narrowing of beautiful wide streets , blocking off streets, this has created a gidlock on our main roads traffic signs of all kinds everywhere telling you to suck eggs not to mention the traffic lights everywhere controlling us in every possible way, frustrating us to a point that we can drink and take drugs and drive as we dont have to think at all on the road, as there will be a sign telling us what to do, i am surprised they dont have signs like,( Have you been to the toilet lately). The city of churches has gone now we are a city of Signs and traffic lights. I would rather see roundabouts everywhere than traffic lights as it would be easier to drive around and the maintenance would be a lot cheaper, Perth is a good example of this, remove all unnecessary signs and let people start thinking again while on the road, this would also reduce the road toll, at the moment we have frustrated Zombies driving in Adelaide created by all the rules and regulations and poorly designed infilstructure so no matter what speed zones and laws you make you will not save lives, you need to get people to be more relaxed on the road and not tense and wound up, let them take more responsability for their actions and not spoon feed them with SIGNS EVERYWHERE.
Perhaps we need new planners that have a greater understanding of todays life.

Nathan · #2 Post by **Nathan** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:11 pm

Those bike lane signs are required for it to be properly deemed "a bike lane", painted symbols in the lane itself don't suffice. Not to mention that the bike lanes on Magill Road are only bike lanes at certain times of the day (peak traffic), the rest of the day it's on-street car parking, so those times need to be spelled out.

(I can also assure you that far more than 10 cyclists use the Magill Rd lanes each day)

Aidan · #3 Post by **Aidan** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:29 pm

I presume its part time status is the reason they don't use green paint instead?

Where does the requirement for signs come from, and what would it take to abolish it?

And why are there bike lanes on Magill Road anyway? Isn't there a much better cycling route a minute's ride away?

Nathan · #4 Post by **Nathan** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:31 pm

Aidan wrote:I presume its part time status is the reason they don't use green paint instead?

Where does the requirement for signs come from, and what would it take to abolish it?

And why are there bike lanes on Magill Road anyway? Isn't there a much better cycling route a minute's ride away?

Green paint is generally only used at "conflict points", to make it more obvious to drivers that they're crossing over a bike lane (such as T junctions or slip lanes).

The sign requirement is from the Australian Road Rules Reg 153 4) a)

(4)A "bicycle lane" is a marked lane, or the part of a marked lane:
(a) beginning at a bicycle lane sign applying to the lane; and
(b) ending at the nearest of the following:
(i) an end bicycle lane sign applying to the lane;
(ii) an intersection (unless the lane is at the unbroken side of the continuing road at a T-intersection or continued across the intersection by broken lines);
(iii) if the road ends at a dead end—the end of the road.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/sa/c ... /s153.html

In other words, if there's no sign at the start of the lane then technically it hasn't started. b) ii) also gives the reason for so many signs, because the lane actually ends at each intersection, so it must be "started" again on the other side.

And I take it you're referring to Beulah Rd? If/when the bike boulevard is done, maybe, but right now there's plenty of risk of dooring (being a quieter but still wide street, people check before opening their door far less than they would on other streets - plus when the bike lane on Magill Rd is operational it's also a clearway, so no parked cars at all to worry about), and also getting across Portrush Rd and Fullarton Rd during peak is a nightmare. Just easier to take the main road and cross with the traffic at the lights.

Damir Romanik · #5 Post by **Damir Romanik** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:31 pm

Yes I can see now why we have a problem in Adelaide when I get such replies and points of view that quote rules and regulations instead of logic and common sense. These rules and regulations have been created by someone they should not be just accepted that they are the absolute solution this is our problem no one questions anything anymore. If I sat down I could write a novel on all the stupid things we have to put up with in our city that have been put in place by people with no logic and common sense, you will understand where I am coming from when you travel around the world and see places that have got the wright people in the planing departments, people with long term vision and logic and ideas that work for the people that live there to make their lives simpler and stress free. The push bike signage was just one small example of stupidity but when you ad that to hundreds of other stupid things it creates a bad place to be and that's how you breed bad drivers, people are deep down irritated by all this and act accordingly giving Adelaide drivers a bad name, it is not their fault it is the environment they are in that's making them behave this way. As I said I felt more at home in Auckland driving around then I do in Adelaide because there was less stupidity around me, when I drove in the city It was so easy to get around and that's coming from a tourist point of view who doesn't know the city, yet in Adelaide City I get stressed as soon as I enter it and yet I have lived here 45 years, why? Badly designed rules and regulations put in place by people that haven't got a clue, the more they try to fix Adelaide the more they are killing it as they don't understand the basics that simplicity and ease of use is the answer yet they complicate everything and make it confusing for the locals not to mention the tourist.
King William st must be one of the most hated places in Adelaide by drivers, not to mention the ridiculous Grenfell st with the bus lane that goes to East tce towards North tce , who ever came up with that design requires to go back to school for another 50 years I think perhaps go in to another career. This is just another example of stupidity that we have to put up with. Over Signage is just one of the problems we have, people in wrong jobs is the main cause to all our problems. We need mature thinking people that care about this city and not so much the thickness of their wallet.

jk1237 · #6 Post by **jk1237** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:18 am

leave your car at home, take public transport or ride a bike so you don't have to "put up" with these "horrendous" road signs and the first world stress problems that you are encountering by driving everywhere

or another idea, post your argument on Adelaide Now

neoballmon · #7 Post by **neoballmon** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:20 am

Sorry to quote from Wikipedia, but
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate

Road Fatalities per 100,000 inhabitants/year AUS-5.2 NZ-9.1
Road Fatalities per 100,000 motor vehicles/year AUS-8.0 NZ-11.0
Road fatalities per 1 billion vehicle km's AUS-5.8 NZ-9.1

New Zealands road toll is higher in all aspects (except of course total fatalities, but we have 5x their population.). So maybe the 'excessive' amount of signs (which I've never seen as excessive or bothersome) is somewhat helpful.

Nathan · #8 Post by **Nathan** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:13 am

Damir, you specifically complained about the bike lane signs on Magill Rd and I told you why they're there. Doing so is not "part of the problem". Personally I think we have far more important things to worry about, like how the roads themselves are actually designed, driver education, and the use of paragraphs.

Nort · #9 Post by **Nort** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:33 pm

This is going straight to the top of my "favourite lists of the year" pile.

mshagg · #10 Post by **mshagg** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:19 am

Unless you can point to specific signs which convey no information (as demonstrated, bike lane signs are a poor example - although by questioning the appropriateness of magill road as a cyling route I suspect there are ulterior motives behind that particular complaint) it's little more than a general hand-waving whinge.

Signs convey information. If you want to remove much of the signage then you're going to also have to accept loss of functionality (parking times, bike lanes, bus stops etc).

I'd be more than happy to see many of the signs on our arterial roads removed - and instead paint a whopping big yellow line down the side of the road, a nice green bike lane and make them no-parking zones 24/7. You keen?

[Shuz] · #11 Post by **[Shuz]** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:37 am

I don't get why we can't just paint all the bike lanes green and all the bus lanes red, update the road rules so that it clearly states what they are and get rid of the signs?

As for speed limit signs - I agree. There are far too many. The system needs to be simplified. 'Remember the five (limits) to stay alive should be the new campaign, with 5 different speed denominations, 20kph difference between each. It should be blatantly obvious which roads are associated with the respective speed limit (and where it isn't obvious, then put a sign up).

20 / 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 - to be used on service roads, residential streets, main roads, arterial roads and highways, respectively.

Two miscellaneous categories;

0 should be the limit for 'as close to zero/walking speed as possible' - for areas like carparks, laneways, etc. and a red circle left blank should be the sign for unlimited speeds on outback roads and autobahns (not that we'll get any, anytime soon).

Aidan · #12 Post by **Aidan** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:54 am

[Shuz] wrote:I don't get why we can't just paint all the bike lanes green and all the bus lanes red, update the road rules so that it clearly states what they are and get rid of the signs?

In most cases I agree, but there's still the problem of what to do about part time lanes.

As for speed limit signs - I agree. There are far too many. The system needs to be simplified. 'Remember the five (limits) to stay alive should be the new campaign, with 5 different speed denominations, 20kph difference between each. It should be blatantly obvious which roads are associated with the respective speed limit (and where it isn't obvious, then put a sign up).

20 / 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 - to be used on service roads, residential streets, main roads, arterial roads and highways, respectively.

Silly idea having speed limits that fail to take into account the characteristics of the road. There were very good reasons for introducing 50, 70 and 90 zones. And why would you want to get rid of 110 zones?

Two miscellaneous categories;

0 should be the limit for 'as close to zero/walking speed as possible' - for areas like carparks, laneways, etc.

A speed limit that's impossible to comply with! Why not 5 or 10 instead of lying about the limit?

and a red circle left blank should be the sign for unlimited speeds on outback roads and autobahns (not that we'll get any, anytime soon).

Not having a limit at all will result in a lot of accidents.

Hooligan · #13 Post by **Hooligan** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:35 pm

[Shuz] wrote:
0 should be the limit for 'as close to zero/walking speed as possible' - for areas like carparks, laneways, etc.

Yeah, all speed signs should be something like '60, or there abouts'

Ho Really · #14 Post by **Ho Really** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:02 pm

Damir Romanik, you are music to my ears. I agree that we need to make things simpler and more logical.

jk1237, leaving your car at home, catching PT or riding a bike to work is only a partial solution and you know that.

neoballmon, the amount of signs [or lack of] has nothing to do with road fatalities. You've probably seen the shows on TV from NZ. So you know that bad habits and irresponsibility do.

Cheers