City Squares

[monotonehell]

We looked at sinking roads under Victoria Square years ago when the submissions were open. (see here, sadly most of the picture links have expired) The run up needed to get a road deep enough would be very long and create more problems than it solves with road widths, lanes etc etc.

[SRW]

I can sympathise with the 'four parks instead of a square' view but gotta say I'm still in the camp wanting to limit roads bisecting/dissecting the squares.

If suitably narrow, roads redirected around the squares should be no more a barrier than crossing streets city block to city block as pedestrians must. The larger park created (ie, actual square) then provides a more versatile space and one that has deeper pockets more aurally removed from traffic.

[Wayno]

Ok time to focus your ideas for Adelaide squares and park lands towards the ACC.
http://yoursay.adelaidecitycouncil.com/pl-mgmt-strat.

[Llessur2002]

How very timely for this discussion (although I don't agree with the assessment of the square as a "completely failed piece of design"):

State Govt in talks to fix ‘failed’ Victoria Square

The State Government is in talks with the Adelaide City Council about a funding partnership to fix the “completely failed” layout of Victoria Square, InDaily can reveal.



City of Adelaide Minister John Rau told InDaily the central square was “a completely failed piece of design” and he was open to the idea of co-funding a transformation of the park worth about $20 million.

Rau wants the obelisk-shaped roads that surround the square eliminated, so that only the east-west road would divide the square in two, with further traffic redirected around its rectangular perimeter.

“Victoria Square is presently chopped up in six parts … that basically means that the whole square is like a large roundabout,” Rau said.

He said the current layout of the square constituted “just a completely failed piece of design in terms of a city park”.

“I don’t think that lends itself to the best outcomes,” he added.

“Who wants to sit in the middle of a big traffic island?”

Rau said that a square divided in two would mean that “people would want to be there”.

“The place would be full of people,” he said.

While he said that there had been no commitment of funds either on the part of the State Government or the city council, talks between the two arms of government were ongoing.

He said he would be willing to present any council proposal for shared funding of upgrades to the square to the government’s “budget process”.

While the State Government had “done no costings on this at all,” Rau said, “the overall cost is in the order of 20-odd million (dollars)”.

The Deputy Premier, appointed last month to the new City of Adelaide portfolio, told InDaily Victoria Square was not the only city project on which the State Government was open to jointly funding with the city council.

Rau said he would be willing to consider joint government-council funding partnerships on the following projects, as well as others:

Renovating Grenfell Street – into which traffic from the Government’s upgraded O-Bahn will flow.
Upgrading the western end of North Terrace – where the new Royal Adelaide Hospital is soon due to be complete.
Completing north-south and east-west cycling corridors through the city.

“If they want to pursue any of their (projects) they should let me know and I will raise it through the budget process,” said Rau.

Though he had given, and received, “no specific undertakings” about major works partnerships with the council, “I’d be prepared to explore where the State Government was willing to contribute”.

The government had been doing “the heavy lifting around the Riverbank area”, said Rau, so it “would be good” if the council came to the State Government with cash to contribute to city upgrades.

InDaily understands Haese expressed optimism, at a confidential workshop in November last year, that the State Government would be willing to part with millions of dollars to help the council “square the Square”, following discussions with Rau.

It is understood that Rau and Haese have been discussing joint funding for upgrades to Victoria Square, among other city projects, since late last year.

Over the weekend, the council discussed a newly drafted council strategic plan for the years 2016 to 2020, which InDaily understands contains broad references to “revitalising” city squares, and upgrading the western end of North Terrace.

Last month, Haese declared 2016 would be a “year of delivery” for yet-to-be-announced major projects in the CBD.

Haese told InDaily in a statement this morning that the “council and the State Government have ongoing discussions regarding priorities for the City of Adelaide and how we can work together to improve services and facilities for the community”.

“This includes exploring options for co-funding a range of projects.

“However, there is currently no commitment regarding design changes or co-funding of future works in Victoria Square/Tarntanyangga.”

North Ward councillor Anne Moran said Haese had seemed “incredibly optimistic” late last year that the State Government would be interested in jointly funding upgrades to Victoria Square, but that she did not share his optimism.

Fellow North Ward councillor Phil Martin said that Haese had “specifically asked that we not discuss this matter, and I won’t be adding anything to it”.

Central Ward councillor Houssam Abiad said he was not aware of any specific proposals from the State Government regarding the central square.

http://indaily.com.au/news/local/2016/0 ... ia-square/

[rev]

We looked at sinking roads under Victoria Square years ago when the submissions were open. (see here, sadly most of the picture links have expired) The run up needed to get a road deep enough would be very long and create more problems than it solves with road widths, lanes etc etc.

Was it ever considered to have a single road that goes straight down the guts, no east-west road cutting through, with the tram down the guts as well, you'd then have two large sections, that wouldn't be cut off by roads all round like at present. The only other road would be a small access/service road for the Hilton.
I think that would then see outdoor dining naturally spawn in Vic Square and the place would be a hive of activity.

The five squares should be 5 hubs of activity and nightlife.
Light Square and Hindmarsh square I think are close enough to existing night life precincts to justify turning them into such areas centered on the squares.
Vic Square should be as close to a 24/7 precinct as this city has ever come close to(casino doesn't count).
And Whitmore and Hurtle squares should be centered on residential activity.

[monotonehell]

We looked at sinking roads under Victoria Square years ago when the submissions were open. (see here, sadly most of the picture links have expired) The run up needed to get a road deep enough would be very long and create more problems than it solves with road widths, lanes etc etc.

Was it ever considered to have a single road that goes straight down the guts, no east-west road cutting through, with the tram down the guts as well, you'd then have two large sections, that wouldn't be cut off by roads all round like at present. The only other road would be a small access/service road for the Hilton.
I think that would then see outdoor dining naturally spawn in Vic Square and the place would be a hive of activity.

Yes, as I mentioned elsewhere, that was my prefered design for all the squares at the end of the discussions a few years ago before the submissions - cut by the roads straight through, but no perimeter roads at all so the buildings front directly onto the square. (Although now that I look at my picture I messed up with where I coloured green on Vic Sq.)

[thecityguy]

Well said rev, I like the idea of hurtle and whitmore being designed for more residential use and the other 2 being used for night life/cafes/bars etc


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[thecityguy]

Just an article about 4 proposed designs for a public square in LA, some not bad ideas. Better than just a few trees like our squares

http://www.dezeen.com/2016/04/28/compet ... tions-why/


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[Waewick]

after enjoying the Tasting Australia/Fork on the road function on the weekend, it would be great to put the square back as whole.

if we have to have throughput traffice, dig it under.

[Nathan]

after enjoying the Tasting Australia/Fork on the road function on the weekend, it would be great to put the square back as whole.

if we have to have throughput traffice, dig it under.

Pretty sure we've been over the reasons why digging a road under is impractical, multiple times.

[Waewick]

after enjoying the Tasting Australia/Fork on the road function on the weekend, it would be great to put the square back as whole.

if we have to have throughput traffice, dig it under.

Pretty sure we've been over the reasons why digging a road under is impractical, multiple times.

Yeah I was meant to say that was my unrealistic view

[thecityguy]

Although I agree that digging a tunnel is not practical.

If you notice one of the concepts has man made grass hills. It would be possible to put a grass hill in the middle and have cars going under it.

You could dig down maybe 1.5 meters, and have a grass hill maybe 2 meters high which would make it easily high enough for cars to go under and also means the hill wouldn't have to be ridiculously steep/high

Not sure if it would really fit aesthetically with how Victoria square is now. But still, it could work


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[Llessur2002]

You could dig down maybe 1.5 meters, and have a grass hill maybe 2 meters high which would make it easily high enough for cars to go under and also means the hill wouldn't have to be ridiculously steep/high

Not sure if it would really fit aesthetically with how Victoria square is now. But still, it could work

Would make use of the whole square for most events a bit tricky.

[rev]

Although I agree that digging a tunnel is not practical.

If you notice one of the concepts has man made grass hills. It would be possible to put a grass hill in the middle and have cars going under it.

You could dig down maybe 1.5 meters, and have a grass hill maybe 2 meters high which would make it easily high enough for cars to go under and also means the hill wouldn't have to be ridiculously steep/high

Not sure if it would really fit aesthetically with how Victoria square is now. But still, it could work


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Are you an engineer to know it's possible with those exact figures?

What about buses? There's many bus routes that run through King William street/Vic square.
What about the tram? Is the tram going to run over the 2 meter hill? It's going to be a rather steep incline and decline for a tram in such a limited space. Or are you going to have the tram at ground level? That then present OHS issues for the general public and government.

[thecityguy]

Although I agree that digging a tunnel is not practical.

If you notice one of the concepts has man made grass hills. It would be possible to put a grass hill in the middle and have cars going under it.

You could dig down maybe 1.5 meters, and have a grass hill maybe 2 meters high which would make it easily high enough for cars to go under and also means the hill wouldn't have to be ridiculously steep/high

Not sure if it would really fit aesthetically with how Victoria square is now. But still, it could work


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Are you an engineer to know it's possible with those exact figures?

What about buses? There's many bus routes that run through King William street/Vic square.
What about the tram? Is the tram going to run over the 2 meter hill? It's going to be a rather steep incline and decline for a tram in such a limited space. Or are you going to have the tram at ground level? That then present OHS issues for the general public and government.

Certainly not an engineer, just thinking out loud, and wanted to hear what others thought about it