I hope everyone is travelling well and getting through this.

Anything goes here.. :) Now with Beer Garden for our smoking patrons.
ghs
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Re: I hope everyone is travelling well and getting through this.

Post by ghs »

Rev, medi hotel facilities are only going to be needed for another 6 months or so. It wouldn't be worth the govt spending say $100 million on a facility in the country for it to be only used for 6 months.

Steve Marshmallow has announced this morning that they are going to setup a dedicated facility for patients with covid most likely at the old Wakefield hospital.

Police commissioner Grant Stevens said this morning that there have been security staff dismissed for breaches at the medi hotels.

Working conditions there are terrible according to a friend of mine. 12 hour shifts, getting paid about $21 per hour, while you're putting your life at risk !

If they improve the working conditions then you don't need to be a genius to work out that you will then get staff following the rules such as wearing PPE.

Also, the state government seems to think that it's ok for medi hotel security guards to work a second job which is ridiculous. This needs to changed as well.

The couple who have acquired covid19 at Peppers should commence legal action against the state government as soon as they're released.
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rev
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Re: I hope everyone is travelling well and getting through this.

Post by rev »

Nort wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:32 am
rev wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:04 am
And what do you mean it's not easy to get it done?
We have massive mining operations in the middle of nowhere, in some of the most remote places in the world, not just here in Australia but in other parts of the world. Mines with thousands of people living and working there. Every day there are supplies flown and driven to those mining operations. Those mining camps have all the creature comforts of home too.
We already have the buildings in a secure environment setup in the form of detention centres that can accommodate thousands of people.
They have power, water, gas.
Get the ADF involved with helping to get them ready, setup medical facilities.

It's not that bloody hard. Stop pretending like it is. It is literally the movement of people and equipment on a bitumen highway to a secure facility. There's been bigger and harder undertakings done in mankinds history.
Remember, the vast majority of people in hotel quarantine are not infected. Any solution has to both prevent the virus from getting out and prevent it from spreading to other people staying there.
We don't know they're not infected when they arrive from overseas. That's why they're put into quarantine.

You don't quarantine(lockdown) the healthy, you're supposed to quarantine the sick.

The virus isnt being transmitted generally in Australia, its being imported.
So why are we putting everyone at risk? Even with 99.97% survival rates.

Quarantine should be at woomera or similar detention facilities away from pur major cities and towns.

What better way to prevent its spread.
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Re: I hope everyone is travelling well and getting through this.

Post by Nort »

rev wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:54 pm
Nort wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:32 am
rev wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:04 am
And what do you mean it's not easy to get it done?
We have massive mining operations in the middle of nowhere, in some of the most remote places in the world, not just here in Australia but in other parts of the world. Mines with thousands of people living and working there. Every day there are supplies flown and driven to those mining operations. Those mining camps have all the creature comforts of home too.
We already have the buildings in a secure environment setup in the form of detention centres that can accommodate thousands of people.
They have power, water, gas.
Get the ADF involved with helping to get them ready, setup medical facilities.

It's not that bloody hard. Stop pretending like it is. It is literally the movement of people and equipment on a bitumen highway to a secure facility. There's been bigger and harder undertakings done in mankinds history.
Remember, the vast majority of people in hotel quarantine are not infected. Any solution has to both prevent the virus from getting out and prevent it from spreading to other people staying there.
We don't know they're not infected when they arrive from overseas. That's why they're put into quarantine.
Yes, for the 14 days because that's enough time to know they don't have a case that hasn't developed enough to show up on a test yet. If they are also not effectively quarantined from each other that can no longer be assured.
You don't quarantine(lockdown) the healthy, you're supposed to quarantine the sick.
This contradicts what you said on the previous line...
So why are we putting everyone at risk? Even with 99.97% survival rates.

Quarantine should be at woomera or similar detention facilities away from pur major cities and towns.

What better way to prevent its spread.
You keep on changing tact here, remember I was purely responding to your assertion that it was easy to replicate the existing facilities, when it is anything but.

If you can't effectively quarantine everyone staying at the facility, that increases the risk of the virus getting out.

If you have increased staffing numbers (to accommodate all the staff having to be looked after at this remote location) that increases the risk of the virus getting out.

If you have staff who are less familiar with the facilities, then increases the chances of mistakes being made that risk the virus getting out.

These are just some of the many considerations that will no doubt be going into the risk analysis performed by health officials, and they are not easy ones to solve.

Now, if you want to argue that we shouldn't be accepting any international arrivals because the risk is too high, that's something different. However if you want to keep saying that a solution to handling arrivals with 100% safety is easy then please share with us your report laying out details of how to make it practically happen. I assume you have this on hand since you have already determined it is a practical and easy solution.
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rev
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Re: I hope everyone is travelling well and getting through this.

Post by rev »

Nort wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:21 pm
rev wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:54 pm
Nort wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:32 am


Remember, the vast majority of people in hotel quarantine are not infected. Any solution has to both prevent the virus from getting out and prevent it from spreading to other people staying there.
We don't know they're not infected when they arrive from overseas. That's why they're put into quarantine.
Yes, for the 14 days because that's enough time to know they don't have a case that hasn't developed enough to show up on a test yet. If they are also not effectively quarantined from each other that can no longer be assured.
What's this got to do with what I'm saying, or what you've been saying?
You don't quarantine(lockdown) the healthy, you're supposed to quarantine the sick.
This contradicts what you said on the previous line...[/quote]

How does it contradict what I've been saying? It might contradict what you think I'm saying, or what you want to believe.

It's actually keeping in the theme of what I've been saying.
Briefly, for your benefit..
I've been saying that we should quarantine returned travellers (the source of the virus here) away from the city, in a remote area such as the detention centre at Woomera.
That is in keeping with the idea that you do not quarantine (lockdown) the healthy (the healthy being the majority of the population), you quarantine the sick.
You do not know if these returned travellers, from say India (a hot spot), are sick or not, so you take the precaution of quarantining them and testing them.

The point of moving them to a remote and secure facility away from the majority of the population, is that you prevent the escape of this virus into the general population and you therefore can avoid having to lockdown the whole city or state or country.

It's not very hard to follow what I'm saying Nort.
So why are we putting everyone at risk? Even with 99.97% survival rates.

Quarantine should be at woomera or similar detention facilities away from pur major cities and towns.

What better way to prevent its spread.
You keep on changing tact here, remember I was purely responding to your assertion that it was easy to replicate the existing facilities, when it is anything but.[/quote]

How have I changed tact? I've been saying the same thing.
It is easy to replicate facilities out there. The buildings, the accommodation areas, ALREADY EXIST. The secure facility, ie SECURE FENCING AROUND THE FACILITY, already exists.
It would be very easy to bring that entire facility on line.
If you can't effectively quarantine everyone staying at the facility, that increases the risk of the virus getting out.
So here your comment basically agrees, indirectly, with my suggestion that they should be quarantined in a remote area and not in the middle of a city. Because quite clearly as we've seen now in TWO cities, they can not effectively quarantine people staying at these medi hotels (the current facilities being used in other words), and that has increased the virus of getting out as IT HAS GOTTEN OUT.

What more needs to be said? You agree..
If you have increased staffing numbers (to accommodate all the staff having to be looked after at this remote location) that increases the risk of the virus getting out.
I mean, obviously there would be protocols put in place, measures put in place, things done, to mitigate the risk.
If you have staff who are less familiar with the facilities, then increases the chances of mistakes being made that risk the virus getting out.
Go tell that to the Victorians who used nurses from around Australia, including South Australia, to help with their outbreak. Our nurses have NO FAMILIARITY with facilities in Victoria.
These are just some of the many considerations that will no doubt be going into the risk analysis performed by health officials, and they are not easy ones to solve.
LOL, so you think because there's considerations that need to be made, measures put in place, that it shouldn't be done? That the better option is to keep sick and potentially sick people in hotels in the middle of our cities, when we've had two instances of the virus getting out from those hotels?
Now, if you want to argue that we shouldn't be accepting any international arrivals because the risk is too high, that's something different. However if you want to keep saying that a solution to handling arrivals with 100% safety is easy then please share with us your report laying out details of how to make it practically happen. I assume you have this on hand since you have already determined it is a practical and easy solution.
The international arrivals are Australian citizens.

My report? Where's your report?
I assume you have it on hand since you've already determined through your arguing with me that it is 100% safer to have infected people in the middle of a city despite examples of the virus getting out (and over 800 people dying in one city) as opposed to having them in a remote location away from a major population centre.

I mean, how anyone can actually argue against common sense and logic, is astounding. Truly unbelievable how anyone can think that having sick and infectious people in the middle of a city is a better idea then having them in a remote location.

You're either incredibly fucking stupid Nort, or you're being a troll as usual. I think we both know which it is.
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rev
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Re: I hope everyone is travelling well and getting through this.

Post by rev »

If I'm wrong, which you appear to agree I'm not despite your efforts to argue with me, then why is the government going to close down the medihotel program and move them all into a single facility?

Private security firms wont be involved. It will be the police and police security that will look after the facility. Possibly the army will be involved as well. GHS might sleep better tonight while he waits for his vaccination.

All be it they're looking at something in the city, which is still wrong, but they're moving them into a disused hospital facility, whose equipment (correct me if I'm wrong) has already been donated to third world/developing countries as announced quite a while ago, at least what could be re-used by them.

So, how are they going to do it? They're going to have to re-furnish it so that it's suitable and usable aren't they. Just like they would have to do if they used one of the outback detention centres.
Perhaps they've already done it as the government did lease the facility when the virus hit our shores as a precaution so we have capacity to cope if needed. So in other words, they may have already done what would be required to be done at Woomera or Cultana, or are about to if they go ahead with the old Wakefield hospital plan.

So you see, again, I'm right, and you know I'm right on this, but you just choose to start an argument being a nuisance for the sake of it.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/coronavi ... a70db457cc
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Re: I hope everyone is travelling well and getting through this.

Post by Nort »

rev wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:54 pm
If I'm wrong, which you appear to agree I'm not despite your efforts to argue with me, then why is the government going to close down the medihotel program and move them all into a single facility?
Unless something new has been announced in the last couple of hours that's absolutely not what they're doing.
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Re: I hope everyone is travelling well and getting through this.

Post by ghs »

Well, well, well, look at what's happened now.

We have a female student at woodville high who has tested positive!

With potentially 800 students now at risk I would think we are now as a community at the same level or risk as what we were this time last week.

So does trigger happy Spurrier pull the trigger again and put us into a lockdown where bottleshops are open but people can't go outside and exercise alone ?

Whatever happens Spurrier and Marshmallow can always blame the pizza guy to cover up poor standards at Peppers.
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rev
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Re: I hope everyone is travelling well and getting through this.

Post by rev »

Nort wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:57 pm
rev wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:54 pm
If I'm wrong, which you appear to agree I'm not despite your efforts to argue with me, then why is the government going to close down the medihotel program and move them all into a single facility?
Unless something new has been announced in the last couple of hours that's absolutely not what they're doing.
LOL that is exactly what's happening, there's a linked article there for you, and it was even in the news last night.
You posted at 9.27pm...get out from under your bridge troll.
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Re: I hope everyone is travelling well and getting through this.

Post by Nort »

rev wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:24 am
Nort wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:57 pm
rev wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:54 pm
If I'm wrong, which you appear to agree I'm not despite your efforts to argue with me, then why is the government going to close down the medihotel program and move them all into a single facility?
Unless something new has been announced in the last couple of hours that's absolutely not what they're doing.
LOL that is exactly what's happening, there's a linked article there for you, and it was even in the news last night.
You posted at 9.27pm...get out from under your bridge troll.
I can't read that article since it's paywalled, but either you or that article (and the news you watched) are misrepresenting what is happening.
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Re: I hope everyone is travelling well and getting through this.

Post by Norman »

Just to clarify, the only thing that's changing is that any positive case in quarantine will be moved to a dedicated facility, most likely to be the old Wakefield Hotel. The existing quarantine hotels will remain in place.
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Re: I hope everyone is travelling well and getting through this.

Post by Nort »

Norman wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:41 am
Just to clarify, the only thing that's changing is that any positive case in quarantine will be moved to a dedicated facility, most likely to be the old Wakefield Hotel. The existing quarantine hotels will remain in place.
Old Wakefield Hospital, but yeah. For that vast majority of people in medi-hotels nothing is going to change (unless something new is announced).

(Also very nasty of you to troll by posting actual facts)
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rev
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Re: I hope everyone is travelling well and getting through this.

Post by rev »

Norman wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:41 am
Just to clarify, the only thing that's changing is that any positive case in quarantine will be moved to a dedicated facility, most likely to be the old Wakefield Hotel. The existing quarantine hotels will remain in place.
Ah yeah. Information must have changed. Seems to be happening quite a lot with a lack of clarity in general with this whole outbreak.
First it was a cleaner for example, then it was the security, then it was a pizza box..
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Re: I hope everyone is travelling well and getting through this.

Post by Nort »

rev wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:31 pm
Norman wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:41 am
Just to clarify, the only thing that's changing is that any positive case in quarantine will be moved to a dedicated facility, most likely to be the old Wakefield Hotel. The existing quarantine hotels will remain in place.
Ah yeah. Information must have changed. Seems to be happening quite a lot with a lack of clarity in general with this whole outbreak.
First it was a cleaner for example, then it was the security, then it was a pizza box..
What Norman says is what I heard from the initial reports straight after it was announced (and the plan that Marshall presented) but ok.
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Re: I hope everyone is travelling well and getting through this.

Post by Jaymz »

Let's be clear, this whole shmozzle is an absolute fuck up by the current State Govt, this coming from a usual conservative voter.

To publicly shame the pizza shop dude smacks of arse covering to the extreme, when in actual fact it escaped from one of your quarantine hotels!
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Re: I hope everyone is travelling well and getting through this.

Post by ghs »

Jaymz wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:50 pm
Let's be clear, this whole shmozzle is an absolute fuck up by the current State Govt, this coming from a usual conservative voter.

To publicly shame the pizza shop dude smacks of arse covering to the extreme, when in actual fact it escaped from one of your quarantine hotels!
Exactly right.

A few days ago our health minister, Stephen Wade was asked if he read the report released by the hotel quarantine inquiry in Victoria and his answer was 'no'.

Unbelievable.
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