[COM] Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

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Phantom
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[COM] Re: #U/C: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

Post by Phantom »

I read somewhere on Sensational Adelaide (most likely on this thread) that there was talks of joining Grote and Wakefield underground to allow Victoria Square more ground space, but to not interrupt the West-East corridor? Does anyone actually know if this is on the agenda for the ACC/State Gov? I mean, I think it would look awesome, would create more space for events like the Tour Down Under and would also help cut down on the traffic that would have to utilise the Pirie, Waymouth, Currie and Grenfell. Also, if an underpass were placed there, they could almost replicate what Paris utilises in their final stage of the Tour de France, near the Champs Elysees. (at the 32:50 mark of the video it's quite visable)

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Just something really basic that runs under another road and fountain for them, but looks quite nice. Besides, Adelaide could always try include that into the final stage of the Tour Down Under. :P
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[COM] Re: #U/C: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

Post by monotonehell »

This has been suggested before, the trouble is the long run up you need to get down deep enough to get under the square. We had a few alternatives suggested including a raised VicSq. But to enable a ramp on each side would take up most of the block, create a pedestrian barrier, require moving a lot of services (pipes etc) and not really achieve much.

The approach now is to block the Grote-Wakefield through way (some of the time) and make traffic go around the square. Which isn't such a terrible idea, after all it works for KWS. Although this still creates pedestrian barrier issues turning the square into a giant traffic island.
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[COM] Re: #U/C: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

Post by Shahkar »

By @PNVISION. Taken on 20 July.

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[COM] Re: #U/C: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

Post by build 'em smarter »

Phantom wrote: Also, if an underpass were placed there, they could almost replicate what Paris utilises in their final stage of the Tour de France, near the Champs Elysees. (at the 32:50 mark of the video it's quite visable)
Image
Just something really basic that runs under another road and fountain for them, but looks quite nice. Besides, Adelaide could always try include that into the final stage of the Tour Down Under. :P
While I like the idea as it gets traffic away from the square, there is nothing in the image or video about that underpass that looks good, it all looks horrible, and I would hate for this to be part of our city. Just because the tour de drugs has it, doesn't mean it is good, nor that we should copy it here, in fact its more a reason not to do it, and create our own spaces.
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[COM] Re: #U/C: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

Post by Phantom »

build 'em smarter wrote:While I like the idea as it gets traffic away from the square, there is nothing in the image or video about that underpass that looks good, it all looks horrible, and I would hate for this to be part of our city. Just because the tour de drugs has it, doesn't mean it is good, nor that we should copy it here, in fact its more a reason not to do it, and create our own spaces.
Lolled pretty hard at "Tour de Drugs". :P
I just meant something similar and prettier than that, but that type of idea. It was the first underpass like that, which came into my head.

The more I think about it, the more I realise that you're right, Monotone. The ramp to get them down would have to be quite steep and would negatively affect the cars trying to turn onto Grote or Wakefield from the Square itself...

Back to the drawing board, I guess!

(PS - While I'm at it, what do you mean by the "some of the time bit, when you said "The approach now is to block the Grote-Wakefield through way (some of the time) and make traffic go around the square."?)
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[COM] Re: #U/C: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

Post by monotonehell »

Phantom wrote:...(PS - While I'm at it, what do you mean by the "some of the time bit, when you said "The approach now is to block the Grote-Wakefield through way (some of the time) and make traffic go around the square."?)
From what I last saw of the plan (maybe it has changed) the centre part that links Grote to Wakefield was to be differently paved and have the ability to be closed to traffic for events.
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[COM] Re: #U/C: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

Post by crawf »

Shahkar wrote:By @PNVISION. Taken on 20 July.

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I thought I would never see Victoria Square looking this!. Ah progress :)
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[COM] Re: #U/C: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

Post by ml69 »

I thought the Vic Sq development was for the northern half of the square plus centre roadway. What are they doing in the southern half?
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[COM] Re: #U/C: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

Post by ChillyPhilly »

monotonehell wrote:This has been suggested before, the trouble is the long run up you need to get down deep enough to get under the square. We had a few alternatives suggested including a raised VicSq. But to enable a ramp on each side would take up most of the block, create a pedestrian barrier, require moving a lot of services (pipes etc) and not really achieve much.

The approach now is to block the Grote-Wakefield through way (some of the time) and make traffic go around the square. Which isn't such a terrible idea, after all it works for KWS. Although this still creates pedestrian barrier issues turning the square into a giant traffic island.
This is the main design issue with the Square. I'm going to be optimistic and say that the redeveloped square will bring more people in, but if it fails or peters out, then it is because of the issue of access and immediacy.
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[COM] Re: #U/C: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

Post by Nathan »

ChillyPhilly wrote:This is the main design issue with the Square. I'm going to be optimistic and say that the redeveloped square will bring more people in, but if it fails or peters out, then it is because of the issue of access and immediacy.
That's certainly a consideration with the full masterplan. One of the big issues currently is that coming from the north or south you have to cross two main roads to access the square. The road re-alignment would eliminate one of those crossings. There will also be the added pedestrian crossing opposite the Market Arcade entrance.

I think there's particular emphasis on the plantings along the edge, so that there is some shielding from the traffic (both visual and aural) so that it feels like a proper public space rather than a traffic island.
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[COM] Re: #U/C: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

Post by omada »

I'm really going out on a limb here - why don't they close traffic from grote-wakefield altogether? There are more than enough roads dissecting the city. After all this talk and all these years, Adelaideians are still in thrall with their precious motor vehicles and policy -makers are still gutless. So frustrating!
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[COM] Re: #U/C: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

Post by Torrens_5022 »

Closing it completely would like nice and the east - west corridor can be re routed onto other streets, ideas like east only traffic on Flinders St linking back onto Grote and Wakefield the west bound only Angas St - so the roads would fork around the square, the one way idea would/should make traffic flow better.
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[COM] Re: #U/C: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

Post by SRW »

ml69 wrote:I thought the Vic Sq development was for the northern half of the square plus centre roadway. What are they doing in the southern half?
I'd assume that's works associated with the central plaza, given that's now being completed as part of Stage 1.
omada wrote:I'm really going out on a limb here - why don't they close traffic from grote-wakefield altogether? There are more than enough roads dissecting the city. After all this talk and all these years, Adelaideians are still in thrall with their precious motor vehicles and policy -makers are still gutless. So frustrating!
The idea expressed in the master plan is to experiment with regular temporary closures for events and then re-evaluate down the track whether a permanent closure should be implemented. That was a reasonable compromise in terms of not attracting the ire of market/Grote St traders and getting the project up in the first place.
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[COM] Re: #U/C: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

Post by Nathan »

The fountain is being moved to the southern half as part of stage 1.
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[COM] Re: #U/C: Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

Post by Rene »

omada wrote:I'm really going out on a limb here - why don't they close traffic from grote-wakefield altogether?
I think you'll find emergency services access may be the main objection to closure. Fire brigade use that track almost daily :roll:
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