[COM] Adelaide Oval Redevelopment

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flavze
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[COM] Re: Adelaide Oval Redevelopment - General Discussion Thread

#46 Post by flavze » Mon May 17, 2010 3:24 pm

Kal El wrote:Adelaide cannot afford to have money put into two stadiums consdiering the rectangle stadium wouldn't pull enough crowds after the WC. it makes more sense to put money into one stadium what can be multi purpose as we are not a rich state Fed money or not.It seems we are getting closer to getting some action in the city finally... maybe. I like the render for AO in World Cup mode

Image
that render shows the new western stand to have a movable lower tier, thats not currently being built. Looks nice but is in no way indicitive of how it would be in real life.

Plus if the cost on renovating AO to FIFA WC standard is more than making AO a quality AFL and Cricket ground as well as building a new Rectangular stadium it's makes us a stupid state more than anything.

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[COM] Re: Adelaide Oval Redevelopment - General Discussion Thread

#47 Post by rhino » Mon May 17, 2010 3:29 pm

flavze wrote: if the cost on renovating AO to FIFA WC standard is more than making AO a quality AFL and Cricket ground as well as building a new Rectangular stadium it's makes us a stupid state more than anything.
As well as building, there's the on-going cost of maintaining and upgrading, remember.
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Kal El
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[COM] Re: Adelaide Oval Redevelopment - General Discussion Thread

#48 Post by Kal El » Mon May 17, 2010 3:37 pm

flavze wrote:
Kal El wrote:Adelaide cannot afford to have money put into two stadiums consdiering the rectangle stadium wouldn't pull enough crowds after the WC. it makes more sense to put money into one stadium what can be multi purpose as we are not a rich state Fed money or not.It seems we are getting closer to getting some action in the city finally... maybe. I like the render for AO in World Cup mode

Image
that render shows the new western stand to have a movable lower tier, thats not currently being built. Looks nice but is in no way indicitive of how it would be in real life.

Plus if the cost on renovating AO to FIFA WC standard is more than making AO a quality AFL and Cricket ground as well as building a new Rectangular stadium it's makes us a stupid state more than anything.
Well renders are just that to give an indication on what the stadium could look like. The reality is another thing but temporary stands/seating in well advanced these days and who is to say that the new western grandstand doesn’t get a touch up to allow retractable seating as the WC is years away yet and that is if we get it.

Have a look at the Come Play website at all of the stadiums for the WC bid(s) and let’s see how many of the major upgrade venues turn out like the render.

where a rectangle stadium could be built within the CBD is another issue too.

We all basically know as much as each other when it comes to AO at the moment.

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[COM] Re: Adelaide Oval Redevelopment - General Discussion Thread

#49 Post by stumpjumper » Mon May 17, 2010 3:56 pm

I am bemused but the notion in Adelaide that Adelaide needs a 30-40K rectangular stadium when there are no real facts or figures to support this and the long term financials of the stadium.
Kal El, I agree with you. Where is the rational consideration of options? I'm quite ready to back a rectangular stadium, a renovation of Adelaide Oval or both, or anything else, but I'd like to see the options and the rationale for the final choice.

Only 20 years ago SA blew $100 million on an unwanted National Wine Centre by going down the path of building without proper analysis of the need.

Especially when spending public money, it is not wise to follow the lead of some enthusiast who is not likely to have a single dollar of their own at stake. The eager proponents of the Wine Centre went to ground as soon as it became clear that the building was the classic 'solution for which there was no problem'. The proponents by the way included a Liberal premier.

In this case we have Ian MacLachlan leading the charge, accompanied by Foley who just loves the combination of suits, money and boardroom tables, with an entourage of likely beneficiaries of the project.

There is still time to stop and to demand a rational analysis of the choices we have.

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[COM] Re: Adelaide Oval Redevelopment - General Discussion Thread

#50 Post by ricecrackers » Mon May 17, 2010 4:45 pm

Foley just wants to be able to walk from parliament to AO see his beloved Power
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[COM] Re: Adelaide Oval Redevelopment - General Discussion Thread

#51 Post by stumpjumper » Mon May 17, 2010 6:54 pm

Tonight's TV news (Channel 7) - the Crows are reportedly less than enthusiastic about the Adelaide Oval deal, given the investment they now have at West Lakes. Nothing wrong with the Power, btw.

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[COM] Re: Adelaide Oval Redevelopment - General Discussion Thread

#52 Post by Kal El » Mon May 17, 2010 8:22 pm

stumpjumper wrote:Tonight's TV news (Channel 7) - the Crows are reportedly less than enthusiastic about the Adelaide Oval deal, given the investment they now have at West Lakes. Nothing wrong with the Power, btw.
Not sure why when they have been on the record saying they cannot afford to stay at AAMI either under current stadia deals and IMO I think they know the SANFL will be not changing the stadia deals for Port or the Crows if the near future at AAMI.

End of the day the will not have a choice if th SANFL signs off on it. It will be a good move for them in the end just you wait and see. I said in my survey from the Crows I was in favor of AO.

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[COM] Re: Adelaide Oval Redevelopment - General Discussion Thread

#53 Post by spiller » Tue May 18, 2010 10:02 am

^^^ So did I, in fact I could not have been any more biased towards AO when I filled out my survey :D

There were also a couple of articles in the tiser by Rucci about the crows' reluctance to move to the city for reasons of losing their "off field advantages that they have built up over their 20 year history" although it didnt go into any more detail than that. My understanding is that the Westpac Centre will remain as their facility at AS and they are getting a bum staidum deal from the SANFL currently anyway so i've got no idea what advantages they would be losing?

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[COM] Re: Adelaide Oval Redevelopment - General Discussion Thread

#54 Post by Kal El » Tue May 18, 2010 10:28 am

Yes well my understanding is AAMI will stay and the Westpac Centre still the home of the Crows and SANFL games will be played at AAMI in place of them no longer using Adelaide Oval for SANFL games.

The reserve around AAMI will no doubt be sold of or sub divided to help the coffers of the SANFL.

I also am led to believe that the seat capacity at AAMI will be reduce but how true that is I do not know.
So to me the Crows have lots nothing in fact I believe they will gain in have a football oval to train on full time instead of a reserve that is a car park 22 weekends of a year.

Anyway back to the AO redevelopment as this is a side issue how did or small when it comes to AO is debatable.

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[COM] Re: Adelaide Oval Redevelopment - General Discussion Thread

#55 Post by stumpjumper » Tue May 18, 2010 2:49 pm

And thanks to Federal Sports Minister Kate Ellis for saying nothing really about the funding of the project. It's starting (!) to look very messy. By the deadline, whenever that is, there will have to be an Option A design and an Option B design, maybe an Option C one as well, depending on whatever the budget will be!

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[COM] Re: Adelaide Oval Redevelopment - General Discussion Thread

#56 Post by stumpjumper » Wed May 19, 2010 8:57 am

The Premier's website announcing the AO plan, released during last year's election campaign, has been rewritten and the date of release has been removed.

The website, at http://www.ministers.sa.gov.au/index.ph ... reArticle2 now has Rann saying that the State Government will pursue financial assistance from the Commonwealth of up to $100 million to assist it in meeting its in-principle commitment to backing in this project with up to $450 million.

“My position has always been clear. I said that when the sporting bodies signed off an agreement to co-locate at Adelaide Oval, then we would sit down and work out how we can help make the redevelopment of the oval happen,” the site quotes Mr Rann as saying.

Unlike in the original page which didn't mention the scoreboard, in the rewritten page Mr Rann also states that the old scoreboard will stay 'in the oval', although he dores not say that it will remain in its present location:

Mr Rann says the century old scoreboard and the grass hill beneath the Moreton Bay Fig trees at the cathedral end will remain in the redeveloped oval, thus creating one of the world’s truly unique sporting venues.

Mr Foley's quote has also been rewritten:

Treasurer Kevin Foley says the State Government will fund its investment in the project by delaying the $200 million West Lakes tram extension project and reallocating the money to the oval. The extension to Port Adelaide and Semaphore will proceed on schedule.

“We will also transfer the previously-announced $100 million AAMI Stadium grant to the Adelaide Oval. The remainder of up to $150 million (depending on the Commonwealth contribution) will be funded from future State budgets.”


However, the words 'last week', referring to the Liberal's release of their own stadium plan during the election campaign, has been left in the Premier's rewritten page:

“Unlike the Liberal mirage of last week – this is a project that has the support of the peak sporting bodies in the State and the Government has identified how it will be paid for.”

In other words, it is quite clear that SA will put up $300 million from cancellation of proposed works, $50 million will come from future budgets and

"The Premier says that in the meantime, the State Government will pursue financial assistance from the Commonwealth of up to $100 million."

The above is quite different from the original.

Btw, in February this year Foley costed a 10-13 000 space car park at $600 million - press release, Hon Kevin Foley Deputy Premier & Treasurer Thursday, 18 February 2010.

Lurking behind all this is the SACA debt of $90 million, accruing interest at the rate of $4 million per year on an income of less than $2 million per year, the debt built up over years of operation under effectively the same management as now forms the SACA component of the Adelaide Oval Stadium Management Authority which apparently has control of the $450 million (approximate) grant from South Australians (although Kevin Foley 'is in charge' as he claimed on radio last week.

Perhaps the SACA situation is a landmine waiting to go off. How a club could be proud of a ridiculously long waiting list (while going broke) while routinely having half its members' seats empty is beyond me. The member numbers have recently been expanded and the years of waiting eliminated, but only when the outfit was hopelessly in debt.

With the humungous debt in mind, SACA's dream of an entertainment complex attached to their oval makes some sense. At least it might save the taxpayer from having to bail them out. Why not put the casino down there as well and use the old railway station for something else? The casino and the oval wouldn't be such strange bedfellows.

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[COM] Re: Adelaide Oval Redevelopment - General Discussion Thread

#57 Post by Wayno » Wed May 19, 2010 9:26 am

Swan dodges Oval issue

http://www.independentweekly.com.au/new ... 33219.aspx
Uncertainty about the Adelaide Oval project is increasing, with Federal Treasurer Wayne Swan refusing to talk about funding.

Mr Swan answered questions about Opposition Leader Tony Abbott and the mining resources tax before walking away from the media scrum at a Property Council lunch when questions were raised about the Adelaide Oval. He had earlier avoided similar questions in radio interviews.

State Treasurer Kevin Foley further muddied the waters, saying the State Government had received an “indication” the Federal Government would provide $100 million towards the project and backing away from earlier statements of a “commitment” from the federal coffers.

He also seemed to indicate the current stadium plan was not ideal, saying a “first-rate” stadium would be built if Australia won a bid to host the FIFA World Cup in 2018 or 2022.


Mr Foley said the development deal could still fall apart if football and cricket groups could not come to an agreement.
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[COM] Re: Adelaide Oval Redevelopment - General Discussion Thread

#58 Post by Kal El » Wed May 19, 2010 11:08 am

Dump Adelaide Oval plan - Libs
Greg Kelton, State Editor
From: AdelaideNow

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/dump-adel ... 5868527322

THE proposed $450 million Adelaide Oval redevelopment should be jettisoned, the Opposition says.

Opposition Leader Isobel Redmond has stepped up the attack on the Government over the proposal in the wake of continuing uncertainty about the financing of the project and speculation the negotiations between the SANFL and SACA will be extended beyond the June deadline.

The Government has been under fire for several weeks over what the exact contribution of the Government will be - the $450 million and not a penny more originally proposed by Premier Mike Rann or another figure depending on what options the new Stadium Management Authority proposes.

Ms Redmond said on ABC radio this morning that the $450 million was nothing more than a response to the Opposition's covered stadium proposal put up well before the election - including rebuilding the RAH on the existing site and using the railyards site for a new stadium.

Ms Redmond said the money set aside for the Government's plan had never existed and included $200 million from delaying a tramline extensions, $100 million originally earmarked for AAMI stadium and up to $150 million from the Commonwealth.

"The feds seem to be running away from that commitment at a million miles an hour," she said.

"We still think the best thing for the Government to do is to concede that what we were proposing prior to the election - rebuilding the RAH and having a purpose built, FIFA compliant stadium on the railyards site - was the right option."


All very well for the Libs to come out and say this but if the money doesn’t exist it means for the new stadium to be built the New Royal Adelaide Hospital needs to be cancelled and I cannot see Rann doing that unless it is out of their control and they can’t find the private side of the deal to come on board.

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[COM] Re: Adelaide Oval Redevelopment - General Discussion Thread

#59 Post by ricecrackers » Wed May 19, 2010 12:42 pm

this is what Canberra is getting and IMO would suit Adelaide

40,000 capacity to be reduced to 27000 after the cup

Image

according to the come play site thats good enough to host a R16 or quarter final..which realistically is the best Adelaide could hope even with the current design
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[COM] Re: Adelaide Oval Redevelopment - General Discussion Thread

#60 Post by waz94 » Wed May 19, 2010 12:58 pm

Not a bad looking stadium for $270 million.

Its embarrassing that Canberra can do it but Adelaide cant.

:(

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