[VIS] New inner-city stadium

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Nathan
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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

Post by Nathan »

We've got experience with retractable sporting infrastructure.
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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

Post by citywatcher »

Don't panic.
The libs will talk about it
Labor will build it and do it properly


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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

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rev wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:59 pm
What indoor sports are they going to use a full sized stadium for? The pitch is going to lift it self up to create a roof and enclosed arena? So there's then going to be moveable seating/stands to create say a tennis court or two? A basketball court/arena? How are they going to manage the scheduling for multiple sports with different needs between the full grass pitch and smaller court requirements? Tennis, basketball and soccer all run in the summer months. If we pick up a larger tennis tournament (which should be the aim), they tend to run at least for a week or two, and require the courts throughout each day of the tournament. How is soccer and basketball going to fit in to that? And that doesn't even take in to account potential concerts, most of which happen in the summer months anyway.

Disaster in the making if they intend to pack virtually all remaining major codes into the one venue.

Personally I still think the best option is to redevelop Memorial Drive (get rid of next gen gym) into a proper tennis stadium with surrounding infrastructure to host ATP/WTA tournaments, and a separate rectangular arena across the road on the east of Adelaide Oval.
Completely agree. Not only is the price-tag on this ridiculous and the design overly complicated, but how on earth would they intend on managing all the different sporting codes AND live performances there, there would be so many clashes and no doubt they would eventually need another facility to handle the overflow. Would rather they split $1.3b and build two separate venues. AAMI Park in Melbourne at the time only set the Victorian government back a $200m or so, Perth Arena only cost the WA government $500m..
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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

Post by Ho Really »

citywatcher wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:49 pm
Don't panic.
The libs will talk about it
Labor will build it and do it properly
Neither will build this where it is. Wrong place and badly configured. Huge waste of money.

We've said it before under this topic and others (Memorial Drive), etc. As rev, a few others and me have said. Redevelop Memorial Drive into the premier indoor stadium and build a rectangular stadium east of Adelaide Oval where the University Oval is. Otherwise go build the rectangular stadium at Mile End South.

Also many here want to see regional and interstate trains back at Adelaide Railway Station. This should be kept in mind. Also the undergrounding of the Gawler-Seaford Line and the possibility of the Outer Harbor-Belair Line going underground there as well. Anything is possible and the Government should keep this in mind.

There are other ideas and concepts that should be considered for the railyards, but not a large stadium, that opportunity went when the NRAH was built.

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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

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rev wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:59 pm
What indoor sports are they going to use a full sized stadium for? The pitch is going to lift it self up to create a roof and enclosed arena? So there's then going to be moveable seating/stands to create say a tennis court or two? A basketball court/arena? How are they going to manage the scheduling for multiple sports with different needs between the full grass pitch and smaller court requirements? Tennis, basketball and soccer all run in the summer months. If we pick up a larger tennis tournament (which should be the aim), they tend to run at least for a week or two, and require the courts throughout each day of the tournament. How is soccer and basketball going to fit in to that? And that doesn't even take in to account potential concerts, most of which happen in the summer months anyway.

Disaster in the making if they intend to pack virtually all remaining major codes into the one venue.

Personally I still think the best option is to redevelop Memorial Drive (get rid of next gen gym) into a proper tennis stadium with surrounding infrastructure to host ATP/WTA tournaments, and a separate rectangular arena across the road on the east of Adelaide Oval.
These average at everything good at nothing proposals always fall short. What I find so strange about this design is that they would consider building such a massive structure that ties the structural life of the building to a whole bunch of mechanical moving parts that will break down ages before the rest of the structure. The grandstands will potentially have their EUL extended with a refresh except the actual playing surface will be a big mechano set that would cost more to replace than the whole stadium. It's a baffling proposal quite frankly. Geared solely at wooing short term decision makers who see the value in shiny things and don't have to worry about the consequences when they are living off their MP pensions.

From an urban planning perspective, tick. Great spot for the stadium. But its implementation is so over the top it isn't funny.

Also as alluded to earlier, the last time a stadium had moving parts they couldn't even lift a bunch of lightbulbs. But hey, let's go for a 120m * 70m football pitch :lol:
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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

Post by ml69 »

Algernon wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:48 pm
rev wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:59 pm
What indoor sports are they going to use a full sized stadium for? The pitch is going to lift it self up to create a roof and enclosed arena? So there's then going to be moveable seating/stands to create say a tennis court or two? A basketball court/arena? How are they going to manage the scheduling for multiple sports with different needs between the full grass pitch and smaller court requirements? Tennis, basketball and soccer all run in the summer months. If we pick up a larger tennis tournament (which should be the aim), they tend to run at least for a week or two, and require the courts throughout each day of the tournament. How is soccer and basketball going to fit in to that? And that doesn't even take in to account potential concerts, most of which happen in the summer months anyway.

Disaster in the making if they intend to pack virtually all remaining major codes into the one venue.

Personally I still think the best option is to redevelop Memorial Drive (get rid of next gen gym) into a proper tennis stadium with surrounding infrastructure to host ATP/WTA tournaments, and a separate rectangular arena across the road on the east of Adelaide Oval.
These average at everything good at nothing proposals always fall short. What I find so strange about this design is that they would consider building such a massive structure that ties the structural life of the building to a whole bunch of mechanical moving parts that will break down ages before the rest of the structure. The grandstands will potentially have their EUL extended with a refresh except the actual playing surface will be a big mechano set that would cost more to replace than the whole stadium. It's a baffling proposal quite frankly. Geared solely at wooing short term decision makers who see the value in shiny things and don't have to worry about the consequences when they are living off their MP pensions.

From an urban planning perspective, tick. Great spot for the stadium. But its implementation is so over the top it isn't funny.

Also as alluded to earlier, the last time a stadium had moving parts they couldn't even lift a bunch of lightbulbs. But hey, let's go for a 120m * 70m football pitch :lol:
I was originally a supporter of the all-in-one arena concept because it would ensure continual usage and I don’t think the event clashes issue is as bad as what others have been saying.

However your comment about it being a expensive maintenance nightmare is very valid and enough reason for me to reconsider my support.

If they could build a conventional 12k-13k capacity arena in that riverbank location which looks exactly like the images shown, that would be brilliant!
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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

Post by madelaide »

...and, the orientation of the stadium means one team is always playing into the setting sun during a twilight game. most stadiums present north-south orientation to avoid this.

back to the drawing board.
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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

Post by rev »

ml69 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:38 am
I don’t think the event clashes issue is as bad as what others have been saying.
A League, NBL, and Super Netball are all predominantly weekend games over the summer months.
The Adelaide International Tennis tournament is over an entire week in January. The intention is to get bigger ATP/WTA tennis tournaments here. They run longer.
Most concerts happen over the same summer period too.

Trying to cram all of that into a single venue is insanity that only the SA Liberal branch would consider.

If we want to attract bigger ATP/WTA tournaments, we need a better venue that is semi dedicated to tennis with outside courts, not a giant venue where tennis plays third or fourth fiddle to other codes.

If we want to be part of any future soccer Asian Cup or FIFA World Cup (Mens or Womens) hopefully successful bids, then we need a proper rectangular stadium that isn't compromised by playing host to codes that use smaller court surfaces.


And this proposal, it would probably be cheaper to build an actual dedicated roof instead of trying to conjure up some mechanism to lift the grass playing surface up to create a temporary roof, which you know will not only be over priced but will be delayed with many technical problems. It's just a huge waste of time when there are better options. They'd have better luck trying to re-invent the wheel.
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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

Post by Brucetiki »

Nathan wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:32 pm
We've got experience with retractable sporting infrastructure.
Several English cricket grounds have had more success with retractable light towers than what we did.
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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

Post by Algernon »

rev wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:28 am
ml69 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:38 am
I don’t think the event clashes issue is as bad as what others have been saying.
A League, NBL, and Super Netball are all predominantly weekend games over the summer months.
The Adelaide International Tennis tournament is over an entire week in January. The intention is to get bigger ATP/WTA tennis tournaments here. They run longer.
Most concerts happen over the same summer period too.

Trying to cram all of that into a single venue is insanity that only the SA Liberal branch would consider.

If we want to attract bigger ATP/WTA tournaments, we need a better venue that is semi dedicated to tennis with outside courts, not a giant venue where tennis plays third or fourth fiddle to other codes.

If we want to be part of any future soccer Asian Cup or FIFA World Cup (Mens or Womens) hopefully successful bids, then we need a proper rectangular stadium that isn't compromised by playing host to codes that use smaller court surfaces.


And this proposal, it would probably be cheaper to build an actual dedicated roof instead of trying to conjure up some mechanism to lift the grass playing surface up to create a temporary roof, which you know will not only be over priced but will be delayed with many technical problems. It's just a huge waste of time when there are better options. They'd have better luck trying to re-invent the wheel.
FIFA and the AFC have specific regulations in place regarding stadiums that are in use for international club tournaments and internationals. If stadiums don't meet specific criteria or have a valid exemption, they will not be considered by them for their tournaments anyway. FIFA world cup (mens) we never have to worry about- even if we could host it, the stadium is too small even by criteria set 4 tournaments ago. Another issue is pitch orientation - AFC requires a North to South pitch orientation with no greater than 15% deviation. All of the criteria set by AFC and FIFA are not for us to negotiate - they are, afterall, their tournaments. If we don't comply they either wil not award a tournament, or bar a paticipating club from being in the tournament. This actually happened to Adelaide United recently when Hindmarsh Stadium failed the criteria (for a reason I could never pin down). Thankfully, it happened in a year where AU didn't qualify for the Champions League, so it never had an impact. But it goes to show that the regulations do indeed change - Hindmarsh Stadium also hosted a champions league final, and was also deemed to satisfy the criteria in a later year. It's actually possible that it wasn't a stadium specific ban, but club specific, but AFC doesn't publish that information.
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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

Post by SBD »

rev wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:28 am
...
Trying to cram all of that into a single venue is insanity that only the SA Liberal branch would consider.
...
So it's the Liberals' fault just for being in government when Adelaide Venue Management make a proposal? Rob Lucas is quoted in the article as not being in favour of it.
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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

Post by rev »

SBD wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:13 am
rev wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:28 am
...
Trying to cram all of that into a single venue is insanity that only the SA Liberal branch would consider.
...
So it's the Liberals' fault just for being in government when Adelaide Venue Management make a proposal? Rob Lucas is quoted in the article as not being in favour of it.
Short answer, yes.

Why would they go to the trouble of having renders and concepts drawn up, if there wasn't something to it? Its not even AVM's land, so why are they coming up with a concept for it? Do they envisage they will get their hands on it somehow? The fact this is being proposed with a Lib government, the fact that it brings in every remaining 'major' code into the one venue and saves Rob Lucas having to find money for two venues and the shit fight that would ensue if say they built something east of the oval, means if it gets some steam behind it, it is likely to go ahead. Especially since every corner is calling out for infrastructure investment to stimulate the economy. Throw in little to no action on the remainder of the north south corridor, and this could be the golden distraction leading in to the next state election.

Compare that to Tennis SA/Australia coming up with a concept/renders, for a property they already operate on and have done so for a long time. Instead of that the government threw 10 mil at a canopy over the top of the existing stands/court.
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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

Post by Listy »

Algernon wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:48 pm
Also as alluded to earlier, the last time a stadium had moving parts they couldn't even lift a bunch of lightbulbs. But hey, let's go for a 120m * 70m football pitch :lol:
Tottenham has just built a brand new slide in / slide out pitch. It's made of three 30x100m segments and weighs just under 10,000 tonnes. Nothing could ever go wrong with a crowd of 12,000 people under something like that ...
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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

Post by Algernon »

Listy wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:04 pm
Algernon wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:48 pm
Also as alluded to earlier, the last time a stadium had moving parts they couldn't even lift a bunch of lightbulbs. But hey, let's go for a 120m * 70m football pitch :lol:
Tottenham has just built a brand new slide in / slide out pitch. It's made of three 30x100m segments and weighs just under 10,000 tonnes. Nothing could ever go wrong with a crowd of 12,000 people under something like that ...
Tottenham's retractable pitch solves a similar problem as this pie in the... sorry, pitch in the sky proposal does - making the stadium multi use. New WHL's has a retractable pitch in order to host NFL games. They designed it with the NFL pith underneath the retractable football pitch. The rationale being that in NFL, all the support staff and bench players actually stand on the boundaries, therefore they could never sell the tickets in the first few rows at full price because they are restricted view. So they just sank the pitch a few metres, problem solved. It was a pretty smart solution when you ignore the fact that they would go to such hideous extra expense on a football stadium that hosts 38 league matches, 2 domestic cup comps and European football just so they could squeeze in 2 games of gridiron :hilarious:
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[VIS] Re: New inner-city stadium

Post by Furyan »

With this weeks announced pending closure (mid 2021) of West End Brewery at Thebarton surely this site would be a prime candidate as a replacement for Hindmarsh Stadium.
The previously proposed railyards site could then be used for a smaller 15K multiuse arena.
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