New City Arena

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Listy
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Re: New City Arena

Post by Listy »

ml69 wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:46 am
In really simple terms, this arena is effectively a massive expansion of the Adelaide Convention Centre (ACC). It is this convention component that makes it economically feasible. No convention component, and the arena DOESN’T GET BUILT!
The convention/conference industry as we knew it is dead, and its not coming back. If somebody somewhere is hoping that conventions will make this project viable then a *lot* of taxpayers money is going to go to waste.
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rev
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Re: New City Arena

Post by rev »

Listy wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:13 am
ml69 wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:46 am
In really simple terms, this arena is effectively a massive expansion of the Adelaide Convention Centre (ACC). It is this convention component that makes it economically feasible. No convention component, and the arena DOESN’T GET BUILT!
The convention/conference industry as we knew it is dead, and its not coming back. If somebody somewhere is hoping that conventions will make this project viable then a *lot* of taxpayers money is going to go to waste.
For the short term. Mid decade onwards expect things to start to return to as near as pre-covid normal as possible.
The new normal will be most people vaccinated against it, measures in place to react quickly to outbreaks, even of other viruses & diseases. There'll be a more robust and convenient contact tracing method in place that doesn't rely on people scanning a QR code and entering their details manually.
ml69
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Re: New City Arena

Post by ml69 »

rev wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:49 am
ml69 wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:46 am
I don’t understand all the hate, especially on a development forum!

People on this forum have been crying out for years for a CBD-based multipurpose arena.

Now the government is seriously proposing one on the riverfront, and there’s a tidal wave of whingeing!

In really simple terms, this arena is effectively a massive expansion of the Adelaide Convention Centre (ACC). It is this convention component that makes it economically feasible. No convention component, and the arena DOESN’T GET BUILT!

Therefore, it has to be located next to the ACC. A good outcome in my opinion, as the riverfront land west of Morphett St bridge is completely wasted at the moment.
Most people here I'd say are all for a new city arena, especially an indoor & multi-purpose arena..but what exactly are we going to get for $700 million? When Adelaide Oval's redevelopment (55,000~ capacity) cost less?
The most comparable recent buildings erected in Australia are:

- Perth Arena (completed 2012). Seating capacity 15,500. Cost $550M
- Sydney International Convention Centre (completed 2016). Complete rebuild of their previous facility. Cost $1.5B

So these things aren’t cheap and cannot be directly compared to the Adelaide Oval construction cost. If they rebuilt the Perth Arena in today’s dollars, guess what? It’ll be around $700M
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rev
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Re: New City Arena

Post by rev »

ml69 wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:07 pm
The most comparable recent buildings erected in Australia are:

- Perth Arena (completed 2012). Seating capacity 15,500. Cost $550M
- Sydney International Convention Centre (completed 2016). Complete rebuild of their previous facility. Cost $1.5B

So these things aren’t cheap and cannot be directly compared to the Adelaide Oval construction cost. If they rebuilt the Perth Arena in today’s dollars, guess what? It’ll be around $700M
Not really concerned what it cost in Perth to build an indoor arena, or what it cost Sydney to rebuild a convention centre, when we have another proposal here for 1/3 of the cost of what this government wants to go ahead with.

How many times did we hear these people as opposition, blast the then Labor government about the cost of projects?
Here they are today wanting to spend $700 million when there's another option for $250 million.

If our state is that flush with cash, why did they cut the Adelaide 500 and other events over the cost to stage them? Why don't they re-instate that specialized care unit for babies at the WCH?
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Re: New City Arena

Post by jackfire »

at least if they build the stadium, this ugly part of the city that has been an eyesore and a rat and snake infested dump for ever and a day could be finally brought to life. Ive always imagined over the water shops and bars in this part of the river so maybe in my lifetime it may actually happen with all the activity in this area now.
Patrick_27
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Re: New City Arena

Post by Patrick_27 »

jackfire wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:13 am
at least if they build the stadium, this ugly part of the city that has been an eyesore and a rat and snake infested dump for ever and a day could be finally brought to life. Ive always imagined over the water shops and bars in this part of the river so maybe in my lifetime it may actually happen with all the activity in this area now.
Or, you know, they could spend $10m and simply rejuvenate the area and build their arena elsewhere more suitable? The Riverside precinct has enough bars that don't do well outside of event days, why add more to that?
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Re: New City Arena

Post by cmet »

Patrick_27 wrote:
jackfire wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:13 am
at least if they build the stadium, this ugly part of the city that has been an eyesore and a rat and snake infested dump for ever and a day could be finally brought to life. Ive always imagined over the water shops and bars in this part of the river so maybe in my lifetime it may actually happen with all the activity in this area now.
Or, you know, they could spend $10m and simply rejuvenate the area and build their arena elsewhere more suitable? The Riverside precinct has enough bars that don't do well outside of event days, why add more to that?
They don’t do well because there’s not much in the area. Not saying this arena is perfect but a development like that in that area would just get more people in the area, and into the bars etc
bits
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Re: New City Arena

Post by bits »

Bars? Isn't there only the Malt Shovel Taphouse?
Or do we include the bars within casino?

The problem with the Adelaide Riverbank precinct is there is 1 bar, 1 seafood takeaway place and a coffee shop 200m away at Adelaide Oval. And all 4 things mentioned there are run by the same group.

The existing River Cafe/Red Ochre and Jolley's Boathouse are bigger attractions than where the footbridge connects.

The arena would also be useless for the area unless it includes consistently open shopping, bars, food, amusement, music etc.

Patrick_27
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Re: New City Arena

Post by Patrick_27 »

bits wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:52 am
Bars? Isn't there only the Malt Shovel Taphouse?
Or do we include the bars within casino?

The problem with the Adelaide Riverbank precinct is there is 1 bar, 1 seafood takeaway place and a coffee shop 200m away at Adelaide Oval. And all 4 things mentioned there are run by the same group.

The existing River Cafe/Red Ochre and Jolley's Boathouse are bigger attractions than where the footbridge connects.

The arena would also be useless for the area unless it includes consistently open shopping, bars, food, amusement, music etc.
In terms of bar/restaurants, there's the Malt Shovel Taphouse, the various bars within the Casino itself, Home Ground (below the Convention Centre eastern extension), The Guardsman in the ARS, Red Ochre, InterContinental front bar. Mind you, most of these are pretty stock standard and don't offer anything too special in the way of alcohol or food selection and atmosphere; but my overall point is, the same could and will be said of any further bars/restaurants they open further along the Torrens if this arena gets up. There wouldn't be enough consistent foot traffic around this area for an independent business owner to want to set up along there so ultimately it would fall back on the Adelaide Venue Management to open food and beverage establishments along here. Furthermore, it's not an easy location to get to for it to become a destination drinking and eating spot.
Bob
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Re: New City Arena

Post by Bob »

More in depth long term thinking needs to be considered for the inner-city stadium arena(s).

Memorial Drive Tennis precinct is way past its era, the best thing would be to flatten the whole thing and start again -when the Australia Open tennis event moved to the professional era a whole new tennis precinct had to be built (Melbourne Park) as Kooyong was past its era for the event.

MDTC needs to stop being everything to satisfy suburban requirements and focus on being a genuine championship level tennis centre with the aim of holding real lead in tournaments to the AO, to do this there needs to be twenty courts of rebound ace surface available, including a centre court stadium holding a maximum of 12,500 to 15,000 people seated, which in effect becomes the arena. This arena court would double up as a basketball arena, a netball arena, and an event space for concerts or otherwise. The arena itself would also contain all the necessary add-ons as expected.

To allow this to happen and gain the land area required, lawn tennis would need to be moved out of the MDTC to a new club elsewhere in the parklands, move the clay tennis club to a new place elsewhere in the parklands, take 35-45 metres from the southern end of Adelaide Oval #2 for an additional row of tennis courts, extend Adelaide Oval #2 the same distance on the northern side to compensate which will require some earth retaining works and the removal of a service road.

This would now leave the riverbank site vacant in the short term, but that site could be used in the long term to build a new soccer stadium which could also be used for other rectangular grass sports, it would also allow greater capacity than Hindmarsh Stadium.

In the current proposal by the State Liberal party, we end up with a city arena and an out-of-date tennis centre which won’t attract anything more then second rate events, and still nowhere for a new soccer stadium in the long term without building on a fresh parkland site - which will cause an uproar.

I think it would be better to take on the proper long-term vision and build to that as funds become available, even if it is a ten year plus project, rather than rushing things through for a state election.
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Re: New City Arena

Post by Nort »

Anecdotally it seems like announcing this at the same time there are issues like underfunded ambulance services has been a major political blunder.
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Re: New City Arena

Post by HiTouch »

I may have been banned for 2 weeks but I'd like to take this opportunity to say this proposal doesn't make sense and its purpose is political brownie points. We have a nice updated entertainment centre with the infrastructure of the tramlines and carparks, I don't see the point of this. They're not only creating a new one but they're jamming it into a limited space with little access in a "health precicnt area". It's like building a basketball stadium in a hospital.

It's meant to distract us from the health blunders of the ambulance underfunding but it's literally being built on the epicentre of the underfunding.
how good is he
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Re: New City Arena

Post by how good is he »

I am also guessing for another say $200m they could totally re-juvenate and increase the capacity of the existing entertainment centre to achieve the 15,000 capacity of this $700m proposal. You could also question why a bigger convention centre wasn't built or at least allowed for as it already appears its too small to attract the really big conventions [especially considering the new convention centre, plenary building etc weren't finished that long ago.]
claybro
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Re: New City Arena

Post by claybro »

Interesting when people complain about political point scoring, then conflate "ambulance ramping" with a proposal for an arena-which some of the same people have been screaming for for years.
The Adelaide entertainment Center, is falling well behind its interstate counterparts, is poorly located in respect to other CBD attractions, and will be in need of a major revamp/capacity upgrade to continue to attract top acts. The Ent Cent location is better suited to a high density residential/employment precinct-if it is of high standard..not just a continuation of the current crap at Bowden.
The Riverfront precinct will never live up to its potential if at one end it is a railway yard, empty park lands, or the back of a hospital...it needs something with weekend and night time activity at its western end.
Could this proposal have replaced the mess at Memorial Drive?-Probably...but Memorial Drive would not create the critical mass required to make the Riverbank fully functional. Would the rail yards site be better for a square field stadium,?-Not really sure there is enough space as even a mid sized soccer /ruby stadium requires more room surrounding it than this site provides.-Not to say a rectangular stadium should be discarded somewhere in parklands just because this proposal is getting all the press.
As for ambulance ramping, it is a problem in most states, Labor and Liberal alike...even in a state awash with money with a Labor government as it is currently a major issue in WA as well.
citywatcher
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Re: New City Arena

Post by citywatcher »

claybro wrote:Interesting when people complain about political point scoring, then conflate "ambulance ramping" with a proposal for an arena-which some of the same people have been screaming for for years.
The Adelaide entertainment Center, is falling well behind its interstate counterparts, is poorly located in respect to other CBD attractions, and will be in need of a major revamp/capacity upgrade to continue to attract top acts. The Ent Cent location is better suited to a high density residential/employment precinct-if it is of high standard..not just a continuation of the current crap at Bowden.
The Riverfront precinct will never live up to its potential if at one end it is a railway yard, empty park lands, or the back of a hospital...it needs something with weekend and night time activity at its western end.
Could this proposal have replaced the mess at Memorial Drive?-Probably...but Memorial Drive would not create the critical mass required to make the Riverbank fully functional. Would the rail yards site be better for a square field stadium,?-Not really sure there is enough space as even a mid sized soccer /ruby stadium requires more room surrounding it than this site provides.-Not to say a rectangular stadium should be discarded somewhere in parklands just because this proposal is getting all the press.
As for ambulance ramping, it is a problem in most states, Labor and Liberal alike...even in a state awash with money with a Labor government as it is currently a major issue in WA as well.
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