(VIS) Hungry Jack's Carpark

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PeFe
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(VIS) Hungry Jack's Carpark

Post by PeFe »

Is this a chance to correct a huge mistake of the past when the Grand Hotel was demolished?

Yes I would like to see the Grand Hotel recreated on the current Hungry Jack's carpark.....then lets do something about the other corner !

From In Daily
Call for new building vision as landmark city car park set to expire

NEWS

Developers will be asked to pitch ideas for a new building on the site of the “Hungry Jack’s” car park opposite Rundle Mall, after the Adelaide City Council revealed it would cost ratepayers $50 million in maintenance to keep it operating past 2030.

Image

It comes after the city council in 2019 was forced to urgently spend $3.5 million fixing structural faults identified by engineers during an inspection of the prominent council-owned UPark.

Council staff say that work has extended the lifetime of the 40-year-old building for another eight to nine years, but ratepayers would need to spend $50 million on a “like-for-like replacement” to ensure the UPark is structurally-sound beyond 2030.

At a meeting on Tuesday night, councillors decided to scrap the $50 million cost from the council’s long term financial plan and instead asked staff to launch an expressions of interest process to “explore joint venture opportunities that would realise the immense development potential of such a site in the heart of the Adelaide CBD”.

They asked staff to consider selling the building’s “air rights” – the development space above the existing building – to claw back profit.

A similar process was used by the council in 2019 to recoup $27 million when it sold developer ICD Property the air rights to the Central Market Arcade.

South ward councillor Alexander Hyde, who moved the motion calling on the council to launch the expressions of interest process, said it was “rather peculiar” that council staff had originally proposed borrowing money to help it fund the $50 million bill to replace the car park in its current state.

“(Spending) $50 million to replace a car park when it seems that car parks may not be in vogue probably by the time we go to replace it is a pretty silly assumption,” he said.

“In lieu of that we want to explore what else we can do with what is a magnificent site.

“I think by making a decision now we can give administration the ability to go out when the market is most opportune for us.”

Hyde described the current building as a “hideous concrete car park”.

He said it was disappointing that planners decided to knock down what was the former Grand Central Hotel – a large heritage building built in 1911 – to build the UPark on the site in 1975.

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The former Grand Central Hotel at the corner of Rundle and Pulteney streets later became a store and was then owned by ETSA before being demolished in 1975. Photo supplied

Full article : https://indaily.com.au/news/2021/04/16/ ... o%20expire
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Nathan
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Re: (VIS) Hungry Jack's Carpark

Post by Nathan »

Hard no on "recreating" the previous building. Yes, it was a loss (although the story always neglects the state of the building when it was demolished), but any attempt to rebuild it would be a Disneyland pastiche with no heritage value.

As for what could replace it, there's still a contemporary art gallery that needs a new site after the Aboriginal cultures gallery pinched its spot...
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Re: (VIS) Hungry Jack's Carpark

Post by d3v310per »

Totally agree with Nathan - re-creating the hotel is a bad idea. Would prefer a modern building.
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Re: (VIS) Hungry Jack's Carpark

Post by SRW »

Golden opportunity to transform the corner, but recreating the Grand Hotel is not my vision. Personally, I'd like to see Palace cinema lured here to free up its current site behind Rundle for residential. Could be an anchor for a mixed used building of suitable scale. If the city was more advanced in planning for underground rail, this corner spot would also be a great location for a station.
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PeFe
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Re: (VIS) Hungry Jack's Carpark

Post by PeFe »

Nathan wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:05 pm
but any attempt to rebuild it would be a Disneyland pastiche with no heritage value.
Why would it be a Disneyland pastiche? Dresden rebuilt its city centre in the same architectural style as the original.....no pastiche criticism there......Berlin is (still) rebuilding the City Palace....the most controversial element of that rebuild....the "modern" section tacked onto the end (I think this bit is called the forum)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... ike-today/

.......but I do like the idea of an underground train station under the rebuild.
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Re: (VIS) Hungry Jack's Carpark

Post by Patrick_27 »

SRW wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:23 pm
Golden opportunity to transform the corner, but recreating the Grand Hotel is not my vision. Personally, I'd like to see Palace cinema lured here to free up its current site behind Rundle for residential. Could be an anchor for a mixed used building of suitable scale. If the city was more advanced in planning for underground rail, this corner spot would also be a great location for a station.
Palace Nova already have a long-term plan within their current site, Maras eventually plans to build apartments above and have the cinema on second level retail on ground level (similar to Como Centre in Melbourne).
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Re: (VIS) Hungry Jack's Carpark

Post by Algernon »

PeFe wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:35 pm
Nathan wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:05 pm
but any attempt to rebuild it would be a Disneyland pastiche with no heritage value.
Why would it be a Disneyland pastiche? Dresden rebuilt its city centre in the same architectural style as the original.....no pastiche criticism there......Berlin is (still) rebuilding the City Palace....the most controversial element of that rebuild....the "modern" section tacked onto the end (I think this bit is called the forum)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... ike-today/

.......but I do like the idea of an underground train station under the rebuild.
In the case of Dresden, we're talking about a city that was destroyed by a completely different force to the cultural and economic one that flattened most of Adelaide's historic buildings. I think it's a bit of a stretch also to claim that Dresden was "rebuilt", but you are bound to get strange, strange results when Americans try explaining the history of another continent to you.

Look, here's the thing - Dresden was destroyed in 1945. it was "rebuilt" apparently almost half a century after the Berlin Wall came down. Cool story. What actually happened was that Dresden, as a satellite state of the USSR, was rebuilt in much the same image of Eastern Europe. It's a sprawling city of commie blocks. What I think this article is talking about, is that certain historic buildings were rebuilt sympathetically to their original design, by far the outstanding example being Church of Our Lady. Between this church and the idea of rebuilding Grand Central Hotel, there is simply no comparison. The church was rebuilt out of the exact same materials as the original (the rubble of the original building was never removed and the Soviets kept it there as a monument to the decadence of the West). Further, the level of detail achieved can't be matched. There was a city wide campaign to the public to submit wedding photos so they could get the detailing on walls, doors, windows right. Specific software was also created in order to correctly identify which pieces of the rubble related to the others - an algorithm to complete a 3D jigsaw basically. I doubt this will ever be matched. I agree with the others - if they want to commit to a rebuild, the effort required to get it right is massive and if you don't it's about as tacky as Sovereign Hill...

As for what should go here as a replacement of the car park. Meh, anything but a damn car park.
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Re: (VIS) Hungry Jack's Carpark

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Algernon wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:39 pm
PeFe wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:35 pm
Nathan wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:05 pm
but any attempt to rebuild it would be a Disneyland pastiche with no heritage value.
Why would it be a Disneyland pastiche? Dresden rebuilt its city centre in the same architectural style as the original.....no pastiche criticism there......Berlin is (still) rebuilding the City Palace....the most controversial element of that rebuild....the "modern" section tacked onto the end (I think this bit is called the forum)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... ike-today/

.......but I do like the idea of an underground train station under the rebuild.
In the case of Dresden, we're talking about a city that was destroyed by a completely different force to the cultural and economic one that flattened most of Adelaide's historic buildings. I think it's a bit of a stretch also to claim that Dresden was "rebuilt", but you are bound to get strange, strange results when Americans try explaining the history of another continent to you.

Look, here's the thing - Dresden was destroyed in 1945. it was "rebuilt" apparently almost half a century after the Berlin Wall came down. Cool story. What actually happened was that Dresden, as a satellite state of the USSR, was rebuilt in much the same image of Eastern Europe. It's a sprawling city of commie blocks. What I think this article is talking about, is that certain historic buildings were rebuilt sympathetically to their original design, by far the outstanding example being Church of Our Lady. Between this church and the idea of rebuilding Grand Central Hotel, there is simply no comparison. The church was rebuilt out of the exact same materials as the original (the rubble of the original building was never removed and the Soviets kept it there as a monument to the decadence of the West). Further, the level of detail achieved can't be matched. There was a city wide campaign to the public to submit wedding photos so they could get the detailing on walls, doors, windows right. Specific software was also created in order to correctly identify which pieces of the rubble related to the others - an algorithm to complete a 3D jigsaw basically. I doubt this will ever be matched. I agree with the others - if they want to commit to a rebuild, the effort required to get it right is massive and if you don't it's about as tacky as Sovereign Hill...

As for what should go here as a replacement of the car park. Meh, anything but a damn car park.
The German government "rebuilt" and "recreated" the Dresden Altstadt (old town) with the express intention of regenerating what had been lost in the destruction of WW2. Does it work? yes it does.....does it fell like pastische? No.....do you feel cheated by not having modern buildings? No.

Here are some photos I took in 2010.

Image
Yes the church has been rebuilt using rubble and associated materials but all those buildings to the left are total recreations......designed in 1495, rebuilt in 2004

Image
A street scape recreated.....

Image
More "recreated" heritage
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Re: (VIS) Hungry Jack's Carpark

Post by Algernon »

PeFe wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:06 pm
Algernon wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:39 pm
PeFe wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:35 pm


Why would it be a Disneyland pastiche? Dresden rebuilt its city centre in the same architectural style as the original.....no pastiche criticism there......Berlin is (still) rebuilding the City Palace....the most controversial element of that rebuild....the "modern" section tacked onto the end (I think this bit is called the forum)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... ike-today/

.......but I do like the idea of an underground train station under the rebuild.
In the case of Dresden, we're talking about a city that was destroyed by a completely different force to the cultural and economic one that flattened most of Adelaide's historic buildings. I think it's a bit of a stretch also to claim that Dresden was "rebuilt", but you are bound to get strange, strange results when Americans try explaining the history of another continent to you.

Look, here's the thing - Dresden was destroyed in 1945. it was "rebuilt" apparently almost half a century after the Berlin Wall came down. Cool story. What actually happened was that Dresden, as a satellite state of the USSR, was rebuilt in much the same image of Eastern Europe. It's a sprawling city of commie blocks. What I think this article is talking about, is that certain historic buildings were rebuilt sympathetically to their original design, by far the outstanding example being Church of Our Lady. Between this church and the idea of rebuilding Grand Central Hotel, there is simply no comparison. The church was rebuilt out of the exact same materials as the original (the rubble of the original building was never removed and the Soviets kept it there as a monument to the decadence of the West). Further, the level of detail achieved can't be matched. There was a city wide campaign to the public to submit wedding photos so they could get the detailing on walls, doors, windows right. Specific software was also created in order to correctly identify which pieces of the rubble related to the others - an algorithm to complete a 3D jigsaw basically. I doubt this will ever be matched. I agree with the others - if they want to commit to a rebuild, the effort required to get it right is massive and if you don't it's about as tacky as Sovereign Hill...

As for what should go here as a replacement of the car park. Meh, anything but a damn car park.
The German government "rebuilt" and "recreated" the Dresden Altstadt (old town) with the express intention of regenerating what had been lost in the destruction of WW2. Does it work? yes it does.....does it fell like pastische? No.....do you feel cheated by not having modern buildings? No.

Here are some photos I took in 2010.

Image
Yes the church has been rebuilt using rubble and associated materials but all those buildings to the left are total recreations......designed in 1495, rebuilt in 2004

Image
A street scape recreated.....

Image
More "recreated" heritage
I wouldn't say Dresden feels pastiche. Only to say that the most authentic rebuild is that of select buildings (church of our lady, zwinger etc) - not the fabled rebuild of the entire city centre as that article posits. By the way, your example photos have church of our lady front and square in the first two. The neighbouring buildings of neumarkt are of very little resemblance. They recreate certain things such as the colours of an old town, but the detailing simply isn't there. Another unavoidable thing is that you can just feel which parts are original and what is rebuilt because the older buildings are a blackened sandstone which simply can't be replicated (like properly aged copper). Not wanting to talk down the town, visiting this town is a moving experience - I'm glad you liked it too!
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Re: (VIS) Hungry Jack's Carpark

Post by Jaymz »

Now, I can hardly claim to be one of the more heritage sensitive users of this forum, but when I saw the building that was demolished to be replaced by those car parks it made my blood boil!

I mean, I knew previously from this forum the Grand Central Hotel had been demolished, but I never knew it was at this particular site. An absolute shame, imagine if it had been converted to a 5 star hotel like the Mayfair Hotel on King William. I think it would've suited it perfectly.
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Re: (VIS) Hungry Jack's Carpark

Post by Mpol02 »

Nathan wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:05 pm
Hard no on "recreating" the previous building. Yes, it was a loss (although the story always neglects the state of the building when it was demolished), but any attempt to rebuild it would be a Disneyland pastiche with no heritage value.

As for what could replace it, there's still a contemporary art gallery that needs a new site after the Aboriginal cultures gallery pinched its spot...

Oh yessss I like this idea.
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Re: (VIS) Hungry Jack's Carpark

Post by [Shuz] »

They should either do one of two options.

A modern rebuild of the Grand Hotel, or have an international design competition for a landmark new tallest tower.
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Re: (VIS) Hungry Jack's Carpark

Post by Bob »

I would like to see a long-term plan to convert Rundle Street East into a pedestrian mall to attract more businesses offering fine dining, boutique shopping and unique offerings, this idea was floated a few years back. It also allows for permanent open street space for revelers to gather for special events.

With one of the gateway sites now open for potential redevelopment this may be the window of opportunity, the other side with Target may also be open as their pending merger with Kmart will probably require a new larger site back in the Mall proper in the long-term.

If the ACC was bold and bought the Target site as well with the view of longer-term potential re development in the same manner or style to be determined on the HJ car park side, the framework would be locked in for the rest of the conversion from street to mall to eventually follow.

Emphasis being on having a long-term plan.
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Re: (VIS) Hungry Jack's Carpark

Post by SBD »

Bob wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:45 am
I would like to see a long-term plan to convert Rundle Street East into a pedestrian mall to attract more businesses offering fine dining, boutique shopping and unique offerings, this idea was floated a few years back. It also allows for permanent open street space for revelers to gather for special events.

With one of the gateway sites now open for potential redevelopment this may be the window of opportunity, the other side with Target may also be open as their pending merger with Kmart will probably require a new larger site back in the Mall proper in the long-term.

If the ACC was bold and bought the Target site as well with the view of longer-term potential re development in the same manner or style to be determined on the HJ car park side, the framework would be locked in for the rest of the conversion from street to mall to eventually follow.

Emphasis being on having a long-term plan.
ACC has several developments in progress already. If you think it can handle buying another site, you have a lot more confidence in the council than many people at present.
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Re: (VIS) Hungry Jack's Carpark

Post by PeFe »

The ACC are heavily in debt, they won't be developing the corner carpark, in fact I expect them to start selling some of the undeveloped properties that they own.
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