[COM] Westfield West Lakes (Extension)

All high-rise, low-rise and street developments in areas other than the CBD and North Adelaide. Includes Port Adelaide and Glenelg.
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AtD
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[COM] Re: Westfield denied request to install boom-gates at West L

Post by AtD »

Skyliner: The first three hours are free! This is a win for small town mentality.

At the end of the day, car parks cost money: build, maintain, council rates, opportunity cost of the land. Westfield want to protect the car parks for use by their customers and deter others from wasting their space. I'm surprised Westfield haven't done it at TTP to stop people using their car park to bus into the city for the day (I know they've tried).

Anyone who was against the boom gates should never, ever, ever again complain about not being able to find a car park.Anyone who thinks Westfield would scare away their customers (their bread and butter) for just a couple of bucks is a moron.

True story: My Dad was a huge opponent of this until he visited me in Canberra and saw how it actually works. If my local Westfield here in Canberra didn't have boom gates, you'd never get a park because of all the local workers using the spaces. Because you get three hours for free, there's enough free parking for customers.
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[COM] Re: Westfield denied request to install boom-gates at West L

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My crystal ball says this will go to court, Westfield will win and ratepayers will foot the legal costs.
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[COM] Re: Westfield denied request to install boom-gates at West L

Post by Omicron »

If Westfield owns the land, I don't see anything wrong with charging people to park there. Can't afford it? Shop somewhere else. Free market economy, ladies and gentlemen.

In any case....
Boomgates resulting in “unreasonable interference with the flow of traffic and queuing hazards on adjoining roads”
Excuse me? And what do we call the interference with the flow of traffic and queuing hazards present on match-days at AAMI Stadium when cars line up for hundreds of metres to enter the temporary paid carpark on Max Basheer Reserve, and when westbound traffic east of AAMI on Brebner Drive is completely blocked post-game due to the volumes of exiting traffic?
Time limited parking would not provide “an adequate focus for community life”;
Bosh. Since when is a private landowner obliged to be a focal point for community life? If members of the community wish to visit a private business for their own entertainment then so be it, but that's their choice. If the Council pay rent to Westfield to maintain shopfronts or lease library buildings on-site, then that's their own fault for being unable or unwilling to develop a standalone facility on community-owned land.
Unsafe and inconvenient pedestrian and vehicle movements” from visitors’ urgency to leave the centre within the free time period
Ahaha! So, everyone is going to arrive at the same time and leave at the same time, are they? And is the Council assuming that people trying to leave the carpark are going to do so at illegal speeds, or in a dangerous manner, or driving without due care? That's nice of them to presume guilt before innocence. I should hope, too, that Council called for a pedestrian and vehicle movement study before making such a judgment, because if not then I can only assume that they pulled such an 'unsafe, inconvenient' generalisation out of the potted palms in the room. Incidentally, we're now faux-legislating against inconvenience?
Patricia Smallacombe said: ``We’re opposed to it. We’re elderly and we need a bit more time to do what we have to do there. We go to West Lakes to have cups of coffee, use the movie theatre, the library and the shops.’’
Oh, you stupid cock. For one thing, you will not be dragged out of the centre once three hours are reached, whereas I guarantee you that if the Council was of the opinion that a car had been parked on the street in the wrong place or for too long, they'd fine you up to the eyeballs in three seconds or have you towed away. For another thing, you don't get that coffee until you pay for it; you don't get to see a movie until you pay for it; you don't get an item from a store until you pay for it; and so on. Could someone please sit down dear Mrs. Smallacombe and explain to her the whole concept of user-pays, although perhaps with small words because I fear she has been left behind somewhat? In fact, not just user-pays, but user-pays-nothing-for-three-hours-and-then-pays-less-than-almost-any-other-carpark-I-care-to-mention-including-council-owned-carparks-in-Holdfast-Bay-and-Adelaide.

Obviously this is the Animal Farm carpark, whereby all parks are equal, but privately-owned and maintained carparks aren't as equal as council ones.

Take them to court, Westfield. Make them use up ratepayers' money on the legal battle. Hike rates up by ten times the $2 charge for parking for four hours. Now that I'd enjoy. Delicious!
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[COM] Re: Westfield denied request to install boom-gates at West L

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Hilarious as always Omni!
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[COM] Re: Westfield denied request to install boom-gates at West L

Post by Prince George »

crawf wrote:
If Westfield really are going to expand West Lakes at some point and presumably attract more visitors to the centre, then this sounds like a Good Thing. Sadly, the response was all too predictable, albeit rather stronger than I expected.
I don't see how this will affect the future expansion of West Lakes nor attract more visitors.
Westfield only spend money to expand a centre if they believe it's going to bring more patrons - otherwise they would just be throwing their money away. More patrons means more people wanting to park at West Lakes, which gives Westfield 3 choices:
  1. Do nothing, let parking become a headache, and limit the number of people going to the centre
  2. Build further carparking, which means either purchasing land or building multi-story parking - either way the cost gets passed on to the tenants as raised rent
  3. Find ways to get the existing parking to turn over frequently enough for that space to accomodate all the patrons
The council and residents just told Westfield that they can't do option 3; option 2 isn't going to be popular either; and option 1 is tantamount to limiting the work that Westfield would do to the centre.

Taking a look at the question from a different angle - back in the States most of the large employers have an extensive range of support for people not driving to work. Most offer free bus tickets, many offer facilities for cycling (like bike parking, showers, lockers, and discounted maintenance), some will pay you to not drive; Google and Microsoft even operate their own bus services. They aren't doing this for some notion of enviromental goodness (although I'm sure they don't mind that association), they do it because they can't afford to provide enough parking.

At MS, the buildings were all designed on the principle of one person per office and the parking was sized to accomodate them. In most of those buildings the occupancy is higher than that and there simply isn't enough parking for the extra people. In the oldest buildings they had to start using a valet parking service to cram in the extra cars.

Take a look at what they built at the new section of the campus - a gargantuan underground parking garage, four levels deep with parking for about 4,500 cars, it puts the 'ark' in 'carpark'. It was dazzlingly expensive to build, and that's why they hand out free bus tickets. In the long term, it works out cheaper for MS to offer these bonuses and commute alternative programs than build new parking.
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[COM] Re: Westfield denied request to install boom-gates at West L

Post by Waewick »

I say bring the charges, it makes no sense not to.

mrs whatshername is elderly and takes more time than three hrs! well i'm young and in a fing rush and want a car park so get out the way!!!

toot toot!!!
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[COM] Re: Westfield denied request to install boom-gates at West L

Post by crawf »

I believe it is stupid on both sides.

West Lakes is a breeze to get a carpark most of the time and AFL matches will eventually be relocated to the city (Adelaide Oval or a new stadium). On the other side of Adelaide, Marion can be a nightmare and will only get worse once the new State Aquatic Centre and GP clinic is built.

Before construction started on the State Aquatic Centre and GP clinic, the vacant land was used as a overflow carpark during peak times and got pretty full.
Patricia Smallacombe said: ``We’re opposed to it. We’re elderly and we need a bit more time to do what we have to do there. We go to West Lakes to have cups of coffee, use the movie theatre, the library and the shops.’’
So Mr and Mrs Smallacombe can afford to waste money on coffees, Kmart, Harris Scarfe and $10 movie tickets but can't afford an extra couple of dollars? Riiight. Not to mention public transport is free for seniors between 9am - 3pm weekdays.

Also who spends over 4-5 hours in a shopping complex!, let alone West Lakes!

I have a question for AtD and anyone else living interstate, what are the parking rates for other Westfield centres? are they the same as the proposed rates for West Lakes?

The only fear I have with boom gates, is Westfield raising the price.
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[COM] Re: Westfield denied request to install boom-gates at West L

Post by skyliner »

crawf wrote:I believe it is stupid on both sides.

West Lakes is a breeze to get a carpark most of the time and AFL matches will eventually be relocated to the city (Adelaide Oval or a new stadium). On the other side of Adelaide, Marion can be a nightmare and will only get worse once the new State Aquatic Centre and GP clinic is built.

Before construction started on the State Aquatic Centre and GP clinic, the vacant land was used as a overflow carpark during peak times and got pretty full.
Patricia Smallacombe said: ``We’re opposed to it. We’re elderly and we need a bit more time to do what we have to do there. We go to West Lakes to have cups of coffee, use the movie theatre, the library and the shops.’’
So Mr and Mrs Smallacombe can afford to waste money on coffees, Kmart, Harris Scarfe and $10 movie tickets but can't afford an extra couple of dollars? Riiight. Not to mention public transport is free for seniors between 9am - 3pm weekdays.

Also who spends over 4-5 hours in a shopping complex!, let alone West Lakes!

I have a question for AtD and anyone else living interstate, what are the parking rates for other Westfield centres? are they the same as the proposed rates for West Lakes?

The only fear I have with boom gates, is Westfield raising the price.

In answer to the bold - not in Brisbane enough to know much about costs - sorry. Also,in my last post I was not aware of the first three hours free - does throw a totally different perspective on it all.(Didn't read the posts thoroughly enough - in too much of a hurry). Next, as Crawf said, the rising prices are an issue. Finally, in my last post I was putting my comments in the larger economic context for the average person.

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[COM] Re: Westfield denied request to install boom-gates at West L

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Re: costs interstate: It depends what centre you park in.

Almost all are cheap at first but get very expensive for 7 hours or more. Anyone looking for an all day park usually goes elsewhere. Generally, its:
- Free for a token period, 2 or 3 hours
- A gold coin or two until about 4 or 5 hours
- $10 or so at 6 or 7 hours
-Arm and leg for all day. $15 at my local.

Any centre near a train station in Sydney generally charge $40 or more for 7 hours but still have two hours free. Even Westfield Paramatta, which is in the middle of an office district about 2/3 the size of the Adelaide CBD, still gives 3 hours free. They know if they charge their customers for parking, they'll loose business and thus rents will fall.
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[COM] Re: Westfield denied request to install boom-gates at West L

Post by crawf »

Thanks AtD, sounds pretty reasonable
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[COM] Re: Westfield denied request to install boom-gates at West L

Post by sam »

Frank Lowy in regards to why introduce paid parking...

@ 03:43 - although the whole video is worth watching.
Frank Lowy @ Westfield AGM wrote:Because we believe that the service, this service is to be paid for and ahhh some centres don't charge but some centres do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IWnUfPfu0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-IWnUfPfu0[/youtube]
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[COM] Re: Westfield denied request to install boom-gates at West L

Post by peas_and_corn »

AtD wrote: I'm surprised Westfield haven't done it at TTP to stop people using their car park to bus into the city for the day (I know they've tried).
TTG council fines anyone who parks there longer than 4 hours $20.
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[COM] Re: Westfield denied request to install boom-gates at West L

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That money goes to council, not Westfields. I bet you Westfield eye it with envy.
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[COM] Re: Westfield denied request to install boom-gates at West L

Post by how_good_is_he »

No, not at all as the cost to police it [ie the council wages etc] just negates the income. Westfield could take it back from council at any time but its not worth their while. Its with no staff - ie auto. machines it becomes profitable.
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[COM] Re: Westfield denied request to install boom-gates at West L

Post by peas_and_corn »

AtD wrote:That money goes to council, not Westfields. I bet you Westfield eye it with envy.
They were invited by Westfield, and 'negotiations' were involved. I'd imagine they get a cut.
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