Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

All high-rise, low-rise and street developments in areas other than the CBD and North Adelaide. Includes Port Adelaide and Glenelg.
SBD
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by SBD »

rev wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:26 am
Eurostar wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:45 am
SBD wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:10 pm
The "master plan" diagram shows a district centre, at least four local centres, a couple of "employment centres" and at least one school. I guess it is up to the customers/ residents how quickly any of these things might develop. Hopefully the developer makes a loss leader start to get it going like in Blake's Crossing rather than waiting like in Almond Grove.

Early residents need to establish the habit and culture of shopping local, so they don't already have other routines before local starts.
I say yes to expanding rural towns/cities like Victor Harbor has room to expand a little more, same with Port Elliot, Mount Compass, Myponga, Murray Bridge, Renmark, Loxton (former rail yard area) etc.
Victor, Port Eliot, Middleton, Goolwa should just merge into one rural city, plenty of room for new housing between them.
Much of the land around many of these towns is more productive farmland than Buckland Park has ever been as far as I can tell. I don't know why Buckland Park has been grazing rather than more intensive agriculture like areas further upstream along the Gawler River.
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by how good is he »

I am wondering if there are higher salt/salinity levels in the soil in that area as a reason? I also know much of the land around Buckland Park was/is still used for olive groves [ie 50,000 trees/300 acres Kangaroo Paw Oil, Buckland Park Estate].
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by Algernon »

SBD wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:46 am
rev wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:26 am
Eurostar wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:45 am


I say yes to expanding rural towns/cities like Victor Harbor has room to expand a little more, same with Port Elliot, Mount Compass, Myponga, Murray Bridge, Renmark, Loxton (former rail yard area) etc.
Victor, Port Eliot, Middleton, Goolwa should just merge into one rural city, plenty of room for new housing between them.
Much of the land around many of these towns is more productive farmland than Buckland Park has ever been as far as I can tell. I don't know why Buckland Park has been grazing rather than more intensive agriculture like areas further upstream along the Gawler River.
It's a floodplain. Easier to move a sheep than a cornfield.
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by SBD »

how good is he wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:03 pm
I am wondering if there are higher salt/salinity levels in the soil in that area as a reason? I also know much of the land around Buckland Park was/is still used for olive groves [ie 50,000 trees/300 acres Kangaroo Paw Oil, Buckland Park Estate].
I also wondered about a salty water table. Buckland Park Estate/Windamere Park appears to be outside the scope of the development. It is in a bend of the river west of the development. It will get better access roads I guess, but https://plan.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pd ... r_Plan.pdf looks like the route will not be as straight.

P''Petual appears to be in the northern part of Employment Area 2 on that map.
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by ChillyPhilly »

From Location SA Viewer.

Absolutely no provision for a rail corridor. Disgusting.

It's interesting to see what was previously refused (pink).

Link for the view: http://location.sa.gov.au/viewer/?map=h ... 4&uids=117

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by Nort »

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:46 am
From Location SA Viewer.

Absolutely no provision for a rail corridor. Disgusting.
It will be fine! The businesses they're planning for the area now means the population will never need that type of public transport, even 50+ years from now. (This is what some people apparently believe)
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by SBD »

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:46 am
From Location SA Viewer.

Absolutely no provision for a rail corridor. Disgusting.

It's interesting to see what was previously refused (pink).

Link for the view: http://location.sa.gov.au/viewer/?map=h ... 4&uids=117

Image
The "refused" allotments appear to be much larger than the later proposal in red.

I tried following links from https://plan.sa.gov.au/state_snapshot/d ... k_township The Gazette contains a long description of "how we got here" and seems to suggest that the signalised intersection must be completed before development starts, but there has also had to be space allocated and a concept plan for later grade-separation at both Angle Vale Road and Old Port Wakefield Road. I also saw three proposed bus routes identified in the street plans (but can't find which document that was in now). It looks like the first Neighbourhood Centre must be constructed early, too.

The red proposals appear to only be stage 1 and 2 of a planned six stages. The timeline document from 2013 is about 8 years behind I think.
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by rev »

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:46 am
From Location SA Viewer.

Absolutely no provision for a rail corridor. Disgusting.

It's interesting to see what was previously refused (pink).

Link for the view: http://location.sa.gov.au/viewer/?map=h ... 4&uids=117

Image
Thats government for ya.

Where would you put it? I think ideally it would run through or into the heart of it, or to wherever the main retail precinct will be.

What about the future, when surrounding areas are built up?

Like I keep saying there's no grand plan, its all just made up on the fly.


I wonder if it would be possible to use the freight corridor that runs past Virginia for a passenger line? Taking in Two Wells as well.
Something needs to be done or planned for, those areas are going to be our noethern suburbs in a few decades.
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by Algernon »

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:46 am
From Location SA Viewer.

Absolutely no provision for a rail corridor. Disgusting.

It's interesting to see what was previously refused (pink).

Link for the view: http://location.sa.gov.au/viewer/?map=h ... 4&uids=117

Image
This proposed expansion of the endless sprawl is a total failure of planning. To expect a planning failure to have any element of sound planning in it is asking a bit much :lol:
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by SBD »

rev wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:12 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:46 am
From Location SA Viewer.

Absolutely no provision for a rail corridor. Disgusting.

It's interesting to see what was previously refused (pink).

Link for the view: http://location.sa.gov.au/viewer/?map=h ... 4&uids=117

Image
Thats government for ya.

Where would you put it? I think ideally it would run through or into the heart of it, or to wherever the main retail precinct will be.

What about the future, when surrounding areas are built up?

Like I keep saying there's no grand plan, its all just made up on the fly.


I wonder if it would be possible to use the freight corridor that runs past Virginia for a passenger line? Taking in Two Wells as well.
Something needs to be done or planned for, those areas are going to be our northern suburbs in a few decades.
The plan shows the eventual District Centre will be on the south side of the entrance road, adjacent to Port Wakefield Road. If my reading of the planning approval is that space will be left for an eventual grade-separated intersection in a later stage of development, it would be plausible to include a railway under the bridge and integrate a station with the District Centre. I outlined a possible spur from the ARTC line branching off north of Virginia township in an earlier post. It would reach there quite easily and could conceivably continue along the buffer zone on the southern side of the development to another station further in.

I find it interesting how all versions of the plan have such a wide overflow channel running south h from the Gawler River through a depression that is barely visible in overhead photos. I think it's a positive indication that the developers have taken account of the fact that the area is sometimes essentially a floodplain. Hopefully they have taken enough account.
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by Nort »

rev wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:12 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:46 am
From Location SA Viewer.

Absolutely no provision for a rail corridor. Disgusting.

It's interesting to see what was previously refused (pink).

Link for the view: http://location.sa.gov.au/viewer/?map=h ... 4&uids=117

Image
Thats government for ya.

Where would you put it? I think ideally it would run through or into the heart of it, or to wherever the main retail precinct will be.
Exactly right. The rail being incorporated into the main retail area helps both.
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by SBD »

Nort wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:57 am
rev wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:12 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:46 am
From Location SA Viewer.

Absolutely no provision for a rail corridor. Disgusting.

It's interesting to see what was previously refused (pink).

Link for the view: http://location.sa.gov.au/viewer/?map=h ... 4&uids=117

Image
Thats government for ya.

Where would you put it? I think ideally it would run through or into the heart of it, or to wherever the main retail precinct will be.
Exactly right. The rail being incorporated into the main retail area helps both.
"District Centre" is the same planning level as the Munno Para Shopping City and the Salisury town centre. It is one down on Regional Centre which is Elizabeth's planning zone. I expect it will be two decade before we see that!
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by Nort »

SBD wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:22 pm
Nort wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:57 am
rev wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:12 pm


Thats government for ya.

Where would you put it? I think ideally it would run through or into the heart of it, or to wherever the main retail precinct will be.
Exactly right. The rail being incorporated into the main retail area helps both.
"District Centre" is the same planning level as the Munno Para Shopping City and the Salisury town centre. It is one down on Regional Centre which is Elizabeth's planning zone. I expect it will be two decade before we see that!
Nothing necessarily wrong with that so long as there is a long term vision. Problem with many of these developments is that they seem to have no long term planning beyond the lifetime of the developers sales center.
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by rev »

Nort wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:33 pm
SBD wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:22 pm
Nort wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:57 am


Exactly right. The rail being incorporated into the main retail area helps both.
"District Centre" is the same planning level as the Munno Para Shopping City and the Salisury town centre. It is one down on Regional Centre which is Elizabeth's planning zone. I expect it will be two decade before we see that!
Nothing necessarily wrong with that so long as there is a long term vision. Problem with many of these developments is that they seem to have no long term planning beyond the lifetime of the developers sales center.
And why isn't the state government doing something about it?
The government has the power to ensure they incorporate provisions for public transport like a train line/station. But how are they going to do that when there is no plan from the government it self of where or if there will be a train service up that way?

It's a government failure, no point ragging on the developers about it.
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

Post by SBD »

rev wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:09 pm
Nort wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:33 pm
SBD wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:22 pm


"District Centre" is the same planning level as the Munno Para Shopping City and the Salisury town centre. It is one down on Regional Centre which is Elizabeth's planning zone. I expect it will be two decade before we see that!
Nothing necessarily wrong with that so long as there is a long term vision. Problem with many of these developments is that they seem to have no long term planning beyond the lifetime of the developers sales center.
And why isn't the state government doing something about it?
The government has the power to ensure they incorporate provisions for public transport like a train line/station. But how are they going to do that when there is no plan from the government it self of where or if there will be a train service up that way?

It's a government failure, no point ragging on the developers about it.
We can't complain that more freight should be travelling on rail at the same time we expect there to be metro rail on the ARTC main line between Salisbury and Virginia. The plans on the sa.gov.au website have three bus routes through the development, which will go closer to more houses than a single rail spur could be close to.

The City of Playford planning documents do seem to show a reasonable amount of forward planning for some things, but then miss other bits like the Angle Vale Super School that will open next year.
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