News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
Spotto
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by Spotto »

SRW wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:16 pm
The seafoam green is original but might be standing out more to you due to the new lighting and fresh coat. I think it's lovely and completely appropriate.
I guess my eyes were never drawn up in the ramp area before. The new lighting is definitely a massive improvement.
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Llessur2002
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by Llessur2002 »

Doors are out already:

Image

On another note - I hope the Seppelt's sign gets restored. I'm sure I remember it being lit up not that long ago - maybe in the last 5-10 years?
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by rubberman »

SBD wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:26 pm
rubberman wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:41 am
I'd suggest that if the option of standardising the Belair Line were seriously looked at, then a service to Two Wells and Virginia should also be in play. Those are perfect for heavy rail. Long station spacing allowing high speeds, playing to heavy rail's prime advantages. Plus, the area is fast developing. Get people used to fast rail, rather than have them used to driving into town. Wait five years, and they'll be welded to their cars.

Plus, of course, the work required in the Adelaide Yard is more economical if it's done for two lines, rather than one.
Where do you think people would be going to use passenger trains to Virginia and Two Wells?

Do you see them as tourist trains to the Adelaide Plains wine and food region

The local public high school will soon be at Angle Vale, and is presently Gawler. I doubt anyone would use a train from Two Wells to Gawler with a change at Salisbury. A few who live in that area (including Buckland Park) might use a train to the Bolivar station (possibly renamed Penfield) if they work at or near the intermodal terminal or in to Salisbury. Other employment in the Penfield/Edinburgh/Edinburgh North area is too far from the railway line to want to walk. I doubt a lot of people would choose to live there if they work in Adelaide city centre, and do we really want a train service designed to encourage people to live there and work in the city?

I believe planning and other policies should be designed to help people live and work locally, rather than using transport policy to encourage more urban sprawl full of commuters to the city centre.
The first point to consider in basic planning is time frames. In Adelaide, almost every sizeable project takes ten years or more from announcement to completion. (There are exceptions, obviously).

However, for run of the mill projects, the question is what the situation is going to be in ten years. Now, specifically, what is going to be the development in the Northern Adelaide Plains in ten years?

If, there's little development, then your comments are valid, fair call. If, however, there's significant urban development, then having a fast rail service to the CBD is one alternative. The other is more traffic on the various Northern roads/expressways coming in. What is clear from Adelaide's history, is that if people get into the habit of using their cars, it's hard to get them to switch to public transport.

So, as I see it, if there's no fast suburban rail service to the CBD from the Northern Adelaide Plains by the time there's a significant urban build up, then there never will be, because people will be in their cars and calling for highway duplication.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by SRW »

Llessur2002 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:43 am
On another note - I hope the Seppelt's sign gets restored. I'm sure I remember it being lit up not that long ago - maybe in the last 5-10 years?
+1

Similarly, I'd love to see the Haigh's sign restored at Beehive Corner. From memory, there was a proposal in the last couple years to restore the balcony that was removed when the Mall was pedestrianized. I was hopeful they would fix the sign at the same time.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by SBD »

rubberman wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:49 am
SBD wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:26 pm
rubberman wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:41 am
I'd suggest that if the option of standardising the Belair Line were seriously looked at, then a service to Two Wells and Virginia should also be in play. Those are perfect for heavy rail. Long station spacing allowing high speeds, playing to heavy rail's prime advantages. Plus, the area is fast developing. Get people used to fast rail, rather than have them used to driving into town. Wait five years, and they'll be welded to their cars.

Plus, of course, the work required in the Adelaide Yard is more economical if it's done for two lines, rather than one.
Where do you think people would be going to use passenger trains to Virginia and Two Wells?

Do you see them as tourist trains to the Adelaide Plains wine and food region

The local public high school will soon be at Angle Vale, and is presently Gawler. I doubt anyone would use a train from Two Wells to Gawler with a change at Salisbury. A few who live in that area (including Buckland Park) might use a train to the Bolivar station (possibly renamed Penfield) if they work at or near the intermodal terminal or in to Salisbury. Other employment in the Penfield/Edinburgh/Edinburgh North area is too far from the railway line to want to walk. I doubt a lot of people would choose to live there if they work in Adelaide city centre, and do we really want a train service designed to encourage people to live there and work in the city?

I believe planning and other policies should be designed to help people live and work locally, rather than using transport policy to encourage more urban sprawl full of commuters to the city centre.
The first point to consider in basic planning is time frames. In Adelaide, almost every sizeable project takes ten years or more from announcement to completion. (There are exceptions, obviously).

However, for run of the mill projects, the question is what the situation is going to be in ten years. Now, specifically, what is going to be the development in the Northern Adelaide Plains in ten years?

If, there's little development, then your comments are valid, fair call. If, however, there's significant urban development, then having a fast rail service to the CBD is one alternative. The other is more traffic on the various Northern roads/expressways coming in. What is clear from Adelaide's history, is that if people get into the habit of using their cars, it's hard to get them to switch to public transport.

So, as I see it, if there's no fast suburban rail service to the CBD from the Northern Adelaide Plains by the time there's a significant urban build up, then there never will be, because people will be in their cars and calling for highway duplication.
Your comments are valid for people who live that far out and want to get in to the city centre in half an hour. My view is that we should not be encouraging people to live there if they need to regularly get to the CBD, so we should be helping the people who will live there in ten years time to make choices now that lead to that outcome.

Transport planning seems to already expect that blue collar workers will use personal transport to and from work. I can't tell if the industrial bus and train (eg Penfield, Hendon, Dry Creek routes) services are reduced because people didn't use them, or if workers would use them if they were available. There are two buses each way per day (but only weekdays) through the industrial areas between Salisbury and Virginia (route 900).

Nearby high schools to Virginia/Buckland Park/Two Wells will be Angle Vale super school (from next year), Trinity College Gawler River Campus (Angle Vale, Anglican), Xavier College Two Wells Campus (Catholic), Saint Columba (Andrews Farm, Anglican/Catholic). The Buckland Park plan also shows a school eventually.

I have heard there are also plans for Anglican and Lutheran schools in the Roseworthy developments.

My preference is that people choose to live nearer where they work and study, not that we provide high-volume transport for them to go somewhere different. It's the human equivalent to reducing food miles. These are planning and policy settings at multiple levels.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by claybro »

thanks for the photos of the Adelaide station revamp everyone who has posted them. The Adelaide station is by far the most beautiful station in Australia IMO, and I cant wait to see it in person now the upgrades are being completed.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by AndyWelsh »

A couple from today:
Image
Image


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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by how good is he »

See my tram post - adding or a new train stop?
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by rubberman »

SBD wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 2:36 pm
rubberman wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:49 am
SBD wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:26 pm


Where do you think people would be going to use passenger trains to Virginia and Two Wells?

Do you see them as tourist trains to the Adelaide Plains wine and food region

The local public high school will soon be at Angle Vale, and is presently Gawler. I doubt anyone would use a train from Two Wells to Gawler with a change at Salisbury. A few who live in that area (including Buckland Park) might use a train to the Bolivar station (possibly renamed Penfield) if they work at or near the intermodal terminal or in to Salisbury. Other employment in the Penfield/Edinburgh/Edinburgh North area is too far from the railway line to want to walk. I doubt a lot of people would choose to live there if they work in Adelaide city centre, and do we really want a train service designed to encourage people to live there and work in the city?

I believe planning and other policies should be designed to help people live and work locally, rather than using transport policy to encourage more urban sprawl full of commuters to the city centre.
The first point to consider in basic planning is time frames. In Adelaide, almost every sizeable project takes ten years or more from announcement to completion. (There are exceptions, obviously).

However, for run of the mill projects, the question is what the situation is going to be in ten years. Now, specifically, what is going to be the development in the Northern Adelaide Plains in ten years?

If, there's little development, then your comments are valid, fair call. If, however, there's significant urban development, then having a fast rail service to the CBD is one alternative. The other is more traffic on the various Northern roads/expressways coming in. What is clear from Adelaide's history, is that if people get into the habit of using their cars, it's hard to get them to switch to public transport.

So, as I see it, if there's no fast suburban rail service to the CBD from the Northern Adelaide Plains by the time there's a significant urban build up, then there never will be, because people will be in their cars and calling for highway duplication.
Your comments are valid for people who live that far out and want to get in to the city centre in half an hour. My view is that we should not be encouraging people to live there if they need to regularly get to the CBD, so we should be helping the people who will live there in ten years time to make choices now that lead to that outcome.

Transport planning seems to already expect that blue collar workers will use personal transport to and from work. I can't tell if the industrial bus and train (eg Penfield, Hendon, Dry Creek routes) services are reduced because people didn't use them, or if workers would use them if they were available. There are two buses each way per day (but only weekdays) through the industrial areas between Salisbury and Virginia (route 900).

Nearby high schools to Virginia/Buckland Park/Two Wells will be Angle Vale super school (from next year), Trinity College Gawler River Campus (Angle Vale, Anglican), Xavier College Two Wells Campus (Catholic), Saint Columba (Andrews Farm, Anglican/Catholic). The Buckland Park plan also shows a school eventually.

I have heard there are also plans for Anglican and Lutheran schools in the Roseworthy developments.

My preference is that people choose to live nearer where they work and study, not that we provide high-volume transport for them to go somewhere different. It's the human equivalent to reducing food miles. These are planning and policy settings at multiple levels.
Unfortunately, now that South Road and Port Wakefield Roads have been upgraded, the choice now is between providing a rail alternative or not providing one and people using South Rd etc for their daily commute. Once entrenched in their cars, there's no way back, and no chance of a heavy rail presence. This is what happened in the north east suburbs. No heavy rail, and maybe a busway...for which no provision has been made...

I understand your wishing for certain outcomes. In a way, I agree. However, people go where they can afford housing, then travel from there to wherever. If that's the CBD, so be it, unfortunately. So, like we could have a century ago, had a decent rail service to the North East, but didn't, are we now at the point where we could plan for a decent rail service to the North...but we don't? Not thinking about it, is actually ensuring it doesn't happen.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by SBD »

rubberman wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 11:33 am
SBD wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 2:36 pm
rubberman wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:49 am


The first point to consider in basic planning is time frames. In Adelaide, almost every sizeable project takes ten years or more from announcement to completion. (There are exceptions, obviously).

However, for run of the mill projects, the question is what the situation is going to be in ten years. Now, specifically, what is going to be the development in the Northern Adelaide Plains in ten years?

If, there's little development, then your comments are valid, fair call. If, however, there's significant urban development, then having a fast rail service to the CBD is one alternative. The other is more traffic on the various Northern roads/expressways coming in. What is clear from Adelaide's history, is that if people get into the habit of using their cars, it's hard to get them to switch to public transport.

So, as I see it, if there's no fast suburban rail service to the CBD from the Northern Adelaide Plains by the time there's a significant urban build up, then there never will be, because people will be in their cars and calling for highway duplication.
Your comments are valid for people who live that far out and want to get in to the city centre in half an hour. My view is that we should not be encouraging people to live there if they need to regularly get to the CBD, so we should be helping the people who will live there in ten years time to make choices now that lead to that outcome.

Transport planning seems to already expect that blue collar workers will use personal transport to and from work. I can't tell if the industrial bus and train (eg Penfield, Hendon, Dry Creek routes) services are reduced because people didn't use them, or if workers would use them if they were available. There are two buses each way per day (but only weekdays) through the industrial areas between Salisbury and Virginia (route 900).

Nearby high schools to Virginia/Buckland Park/Two Wells will be Angle Vale super school (from next year), Trinity College Gawler River Campus (Angle Vale, Anglican), Xavier College Two Wells Campus (Catholic), Saint Columba (Andrews Farm, Anglican/Catholic). The Buckland Park plan also shows a school eventually.

I have heard there are also plans for Anglican and Lutheran schools in the Roseworthy developments.

My preference is that people choose to live nearer where they work and study, not that we provide high-volume transport for them to go somewhere different. It's the human equivalent to reducing food miles. These are planning and policy settings at multiple levels.
Unfortunately, now that South Road and Port Wakefield Roads have been upgraded, the choice now is between providing a rail alternative or not providing one and people using South Rd etc for their daily commute. Once entrenched in their cars, there's no way back, and no chance of a heavy rail presence. This is what happened in the north east suburbs. No heavy rail, and maybe a busway...for which no provision has been made...

I understand your wishing for certain outcomes. In a way, I agree. However, people go where they can afford housing, then travel from there to wherever. If that's the CBD, so be it, unfortunately. So, like we could have a century ago, had a decent rail service to the North East, but didn't, are we now at the point where we could plan for a decent rail service to the North...but we don't? Not thinking about it, is actually ensuring it doesn't happen.
Looking at the top industries employing people from Virginia in 2016, I doubt many of those industries have a large presence in the CBD. A little further down the page is travel to work - a significantly higher proportion of people in Buckland Park and Virginia walk to work than the national average. Overall, Adelaide metro area is below the national average. it seems like at present, people choose not to live in that area and commute to the CBD. Why would we want to encourage city workers to move there?
Once it's finished, we should have a good rail service through the east side of the northern suburbs to Gawler for people who want to live in outer suburbs and commute to the city. I'm happy to let the western side continue to be the food bowl of the state, mostly employing locals. I think the state would get a much better value outcome by improving transport services to help people to leave their cars at home for their current commutes, rather than in helping them to live further away from where they work.
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