News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
SBD
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 1676
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:49 pm
Location: Blakeview

Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by SBD »

I'm not really familiar with the area. Is the "West Lakes Extension" really a reopening and extension of the Hendon line that closed in 1980?

Also, will electrifying the Grange line cause any problems for the golf course with overhead wires that it doesn't already have with trains and tracks?
User avatar
SRW
Donating Member
Donating Member
Posts: 2973
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:42 pm
Location: City

Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by SRW »

gnrc_louis wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:48 pm
Also, an underground CBD rail tunnel would cost billions, no government is going to seriously consider it until rail patronage increases and there's a public push for it. It's decades away at best.
Electrification will help, but patronage will not significantly increase until it provides a more useful and efficient service, which can only be achieved by through-running trains under the CBD. We have to bite the bullet here: we need public transport to increase its share of the commuter burden. We don't even have to reinvent the wheel: Auckland provides a pretty good guide. It's a similarly sized city with a similar history of rail decline that only rebounded with significant investment. I'd argue we'd actually stand to boost ridership even more than they have given our network's greater reach and our employment/commuting patterns. IMO, after the north-south motorway, underground rail is the city's most urgent big project -- we should be aiming to have it complete by 2030 or, at the very latest, our bicentenary in 2036.
Keep Adelaide Weird
SBD
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 1676
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:49 pm
Location: Blakeview

Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by SBD »

Does anyone have official statistics on what percentage of the metropolitan population works or studies in the CBD? What is the average commute distance for CBD workers?

I live and work in outer suburbs, so my perspective is probably skewed, I think I know more people who commute from or across the CBD to work in the suburbs than I know who live in the suburbs and commute to work in the city.
ChillyPhilly
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 1852
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:35 pm
Location: Adder-Laid, South Australia.
Contact:

Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by ChillyPhilly »

SBD wrote:Does anyone have official statistics on what percentage of the metropolitan population works or studies in the CBD? What is the average commute distance for CBD workers?

I live and work in outer suburbs, so my perspective is probably skewed, I think I know more people who commute from or across the CBD to work in the suburbs than I know who live in the suburbs and commute to work in the city.
This stat is from 2013-14, but at least then 15% of all jobs in Adelaide were in the CBD.
Our state, our city, our future.

All views expressed on this forum are my own.
Patrick_27
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 2073
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:41 pm
Location: Adelaide CBD, SA

Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by Patrick_27 »

gnrc_louis wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:48 pm
Keep the Grange line, and do the West Lakes extension too. Enough rail has been closed over the years and buses are not an adequate substitute to encourage people to use more public transport - if anything they do the opposite. Any government serious about building a public transport system for the future should be focusing on light and heavy rail - not buses.
I agree that enough rail has been closed over the years, and some lines that would probably be beneficial nowadays, however that isn't a reason to keep lines open if they aren't performing well. Grange line should have been closed years ago, and like it has been mentioned, West Lakes should have been years ago and should still be Grange's replacement. I also favour reopening the Northfield line and extending it as far as Golden Grove/Athelstone, I know the O-Bahn extension is planned to go out as far as Golden Grove, but why not have both?
SBD
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 1676
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:49 pm
Location: Blakeview

Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by SBD »

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:01 pm
SBD wrote:Does anyone have official statistics on what percentage of the metropolitan population works or studies in the CBD? What is the average commute distance for CBD workers?

I live and work in outer suburbs, so my perspective is probably skewed, I think I know more people who commute from or across the CBD to work in the suburbs than I know who live in the suburbs and commute to work in the city.
This stat is from 2013-14, but at least then 15% of all jobs in Adelaide were in the CBD.
Adelaide public transport appears to be configured in a hub-and-spoke fashion that seems to be modelled on the expectation that 85% of us work in the CBD, rather than the expectation that 85% of us do not. Suburban life is dominated by car transport because the public transport is not suited to 85% of us. Public transport doesn't serve people who live and work in the suburbs because most of us have cars.
User avatar
1NEEDS2POST
High Rise Poster!
Posts: 295
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:01 pm

Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by 1NEEDS2POST »

Norman wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:02 am
In the meantime, here are some rail projects that should be considered:
-CBD Underground Link
-Extension to Aldinga
-Extension to Roseworthy (with associated town masterplan) and Gawler East
-Electrification of Outer Harbor and Grange lines
-Northern Connector rail bypass and Salisbury North line conversion for suburban trains, using the third track between Adelaide and Salisbury for express services
-Tram CBD Loop

These are some easy proposals (except the CBD link) that could be part of early Infrastructure Australia submissions.
The number one problem with trains in Adelaide is low frequency. Apart from the Gawler and Seaford lines, outside of peak hour, the rail network is poor because of the low frequency.

When you branch a public transport route, you decrease the frequency of each route, which makes each route less usable. So out of these suggestions, the ones that don't involve branching should be given priority. They are the extension to Aldinga (for which land is already set aside) and the CBD tunnel. Another extension that won't reduce frequency is an extension to the Barossa.

I think the Aldinga extension is "shovel ready". It's simple, it won't reduce frequency (if they put a few extra trains on) and land is already set aside for it. Is the government suggesting it for funding?
ml69
Legendary Member!
Posts: 939
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:16 pm
Location: Adelaide SA

Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by ml69 »

SRW wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:41 pm
gnrc_louis wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:48 pm
Also, an underground CBD rail tunnel would cost billions, no government is going to seriously consider it until rail patronage increases and there's a public push for it. It's decades away at best.
Electrification will help, but patronage will not significantly increase until it provides a more useful and efficient service, which can only be achieved by through-running trains under the CBD. We have to bite the bullet here: we need public transport to increase its share of the commuter burden. We don't even have to reinvent the wheel: Auckland provides a pretty good guide. It's a similarly sized city with a similar history of rail decline that only rebounded with significant investment. I'd argue we'd actually stand to boost ridership even more than they have given our network's greater reach and our employment/commuting patterns. IMO, after the north-south motorway, underground rail is the city's most urgent big project -- we should be aiming to have it complete by 2030 or, at the very latest, our bicentenary in 2036.
110% agree about it being the next big infrastructure project after the N-S Motorway.

A CBD rail tunnel will massively boost ridership, as commuters realise they could save between 10-20 mins per ride if they work anywhere near Victoria Sq or Hindmarsh Sq. A far more speedy and convenient service will get commuters out of their cars.

Further, it benefits bus commuters in the northern, southern and north-western suburbs who can mode change for a speedy rail trip into the city, dropping them to their desired CBD station.
claybro
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 2172
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:16 pm

Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by claybro »

gnrc_louis wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:48 pm
ml69 wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:15 am
Norman wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:02 am
In the meantime, here are some rail projects that should be considered:
-CBD Underground Link
-Extension to Aldinga
-Extension to Roseworthy (with associated town masterplan) and Gawler East
-Electrification of Outer Harbor and Grange lines
-Northern Connector rail bypass and Salisbury North line conversion for suburban trains, using the third track between Adelaide and Salisbury for express services
-Tram CBD Loop

These are some easy proposals (except the CBD link) that could be part of early Infrastructure Australia submissions.
I wouldn’t bother with line extensions to Aldinga, Roseworthy or Salisbury North yet. Not a priority. Let’s get our current lines up to standard first.

Outer Harbor electrification is a no-brainer.

Close the Grange line, and replace it with a line extension to West Lakes - double track to Albert Park, then widen West Lakes Blvd and put in one track down the median). Build a park n ride multi-storey car park at West Lakes. It’ll easily get 3-5 times the patronage of the Grange line.

Then tie together each of our 5 electrified lines (Seaford, Flinders, Gawler, Outer Harbor and West Lakes) with a CBD rail tunnel, with stops at current Adelaide station, Hindmarsh Square and Victoria Square.

This will offer huge efficiency and time savings for commuters working in parts of the CBD not immediately adjacent to the current railway station.
Keep the Grange line, and do the West Lakes extension too. Enough rail has been closed over the years and buses are not an adequate substitute to encourage people to use more public transport - if anything they do the opposite. Any government serious about building a public transport system for the future should be focusing on light and heavy rail - not buses.

Also, an underground CBD rail tunnel would cost billions, no government is going to seriously consider it until rail patronage increases and there's a public push for it. It's decades away at best.
There is no way the residents of west lakes, nor the council, or the local member will allow heavy rail up the centre of West Lakes boulevard. It would be political poison. Heavy rail sharing road corridors died in the 1970's for good reason. The West Lakes extension was lost with the light rail proposal which no one seemed to support. As for the Grange spur, it is highly likely to close with any upgrade to OH even if it lasts that long.
User avatar
gnrc_louis
High Rise Poster!
Posts: 297
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:04 pm
Location: Adelaide

Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by gnrc_louis »

Don’t get me wrong, I 100% would like it to be the next big infrastructure project, I just think it’s unlikely to be.
Brucetiki
Legendary Member!
Posts: 864
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:20 pm

Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by Brucetiki »

SBD wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:29 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:01 pm
SBD wrote:Does anyone have official statistics on what percentage of the metropolitan population works or studies in the CBD? What is the average commute distance for CBD workers?

I live and work in outer suburbs, so my perspective is probably skewed, I think I know more people who commute from or across the CBD to work in the suburbs than I know who live in the suburbs and commute to work in the city.
This stat is from 2013-14, but at least then 15% of all jobs in Adelaide were in the CBD.
Adelaide public transport appears to be configured in a hub-and-spoke fashion that seems to be modelled on the expectation that 85% of us work in the CBD, rather than the expectation that 85% of us do not. Suburban life is dominated by car transport because the public transport is not suited to 85% of us. Public transport doesn't serve people who live and work in the suburbs because most of us have cars.
Exactly. If I was to commute to work by bus it would take 70-90 minutes on 2 buses.

It's a 15-20 minute drive.
Eurostar
Legendary Member!
Posts: 736
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:44 pm

Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by Eurostar »

From the Bunyip:
A development plan amendment which could pave the way for a major redevelopment of the Gawler Central railway precinct has been cancelled, but new planning laws could see it proceed anyway
Attachments
a29_transit-proposal-2.jpg
Gawler Central
ChillyPhilly
Super Size Scraper Poster!
Posts: 1852
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:35 pm
Location: Adder-Laid, South Australia.
Contact:

Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by ChillyPhilly »

Eurostar wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:15 am
From the Bunyip:
A development plan amendment which could pave the way for a major redevelopment of the Gawler Central railway precinct has been cancelled, but new planning laws could see it proceed anyway
As if they would cancel that at this time - it'd be a huge boost for the precinct.
Our state, our city, our future.

All views expressed on this forum are my own.
User avatar
Pistol
Legendary Member!
Posts: 932
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Adelaide

Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by Pistol »

Posts for the electric lines are beginning to be installed between Ovingham and Dudley Park.
They are HUGE!
Will take a photo tomorrow - would be interested if they are the same design as on the Seaford line
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken
User avatar
PeFe
Legendary Member!
Posts: 1250
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:47 am

Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by PeFe »

1NEEDS2POST wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:31 pm
The number one problem with trains in Adelaide is low frequency. Apart from the Gawler and Seaford lines, outside of peak hour, the rail network is poor because of the low frequency.
The night time/weekend frequency of the Belair and Outer Harbor lines is exactly the same as Seaford and Gawler.
Post Reply