News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[rubberman]

This will end when Labor buys back the contract.

Doing this in the midst of a still-raging global pandemic is madness.

Labor will buy back the contract? Cool, so we will be in debt by another 2 billion or so...?

Cant wait.

If someone makes a stuffup, then the cost of fixing that stuffup is on the person making it, not the person fixing it.

The ETSA privatisation and the SA Water outsourcing by the Olsen Government were unmitigated disasters. As was the NBN. The Liberals, Federal and State have wasted untold billions on these projects. The outsourcing of the trains and trams has not been open to any real scrutiny. So, realistically, with a history of poor past decisions and a very secretive process, the chances of this being any good are very low indeed. And yes, it might cost a lot of money to reverse, but that's on the Liberals.

[rev]

This will end when Labor buys back the contract.

Doing this in the midst of a still-raging global pandemic is madness.

Labor will buy back the contract? Cool, so we will be in debt by another 2 billion or so...?

Cant wait.

If someone makes a stuffup, then the cost of fixing that stuffup is on the person making it, not the person fixing it.

The ETSA privatisation and the SA Water outsourcing by the Olsen Government were unmitigated disasters. As was the NBN. The Liberals, Federal and State have wasted untold billions on these projects. The outsourcing of the trains and trams has not been open to any real scrutiny. So, realistically, with a history of poor past decisions and a very secretive process, the chances of this being any good are very low indeed. And yes, it might cost a lot of money to reverse, but that's on the Liberals.

So in the argument against the privatization, partly being that it isn't open to scrutiny, we should be against it and assume the worst, because of the past record? So essentially, complain about a lack of scrutiny, demand it (the deal) doesn't go ahead, but ignore the need for scrutiny in making that determination because "the past" shows us they aren't good at getting value for money deals for the tax payer.

It's actually not on the Liberals when it will certainly cost more to undo the privatization, it is going to be on us, the South Australian tax payers. Because WE will foot the bill, not the South Australian branch of the Liberal Party of Australia.

Labor probably wont undo it, like they never undid any other privatizations.
What they'll do instead is bring back things like the Adelaide 500, and other events cancelled by the Liberal government, and say here look at this, we're doing something positive.

[rev]

For the drivers that are still being employed by the government to be subcontracted to Keolis Downer, they're guaranteed 3 years of work under this arrangement. KD's contract runs for eight years. That means that for just under half of KD's contract, the government will be separately paying its own group of drivers to work for KD to fill the shortfall.

How is this a good deal?

It's obviously not a good deal.
But who agreed to a contract which included such a clause? Liberal or Labor whose in bed with the unions?
The same unions which take it way too far and think their members should be showered in money, gold and diamonds just for walking through the doors in the morning.

It's a shitty deal and situation all round, but that's what happens when you've got politicians who belong in a banana republic instead of a first world country.

[ChillyPhilly]

Here's just one example of why privatisation is a shocker.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_No ... rn_Railway

If it can't work in the UK, it won't work here.

[rev]

Here's just one example of why privatisation is a shocker.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_No ... rn_Railway

If it can't work in the UK, it won't work here.

Seems to work in Melbourne.

[SBD]

For the drivers that are still being employed by the government to be subcontracted to Keolis Downer, they're guaranteed 3 years of work under this arrangement. KD's contract runs for eight years. That means that for just under half of KD's contract, the government will be separately paying its own group of drivers to work for KD to fill the shortfall.

How is this a good deal?

It's obviously not a good deal.
But who agreed to a contract which included such a clause? Liberal or Labor whose in bed with the unions?
The same unions which take it way too far and think their members should be showered in money, gold and diamonds just for walking through the doors in the morning.

It's a shitty deal and situation all round, but that's what happens when you've got politicians who belong in a banana republic instead of a first world country.

Have we heard why those drivers chose not to transfer to KD, and how they feel about being "forced" to drive trains for KD? I wonder if they are on defined benefit superannuation schemes that cannot be matched if they leave. Farming them out for a few years doing the job they love while keeping the public service pension benefits is cheaper than offering a large enough "please leave" package as it earns contract rates from KD, and they would be paid to sit on their thumbs otherwise.

[Eurostar]

Here's just one example of why privatisation is a shocker.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_No ... rn_Railway

If it can't work in the UK, it won't work here.

Seems to work in Melbourne.

I guess you forgot when Connex's trains ran late alot, journeys were terminated at an earlier station because they were so late or cancelled. There was even a story on Today Tonight or A Current Affair. Punctuality was bad with Metro too.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... -wni4.html

[PeFe]

Here's just one example of why privatisation is a shocker.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_No ... rn_Railway

If it can't work in the UK, it won't work here.

I don't think a London-northern England-Scotland regional passenger service is a good comparison to the Adelaide Metro train network.

And did you not read the article? When the UK government department reclaimed the franchise they set up a separate company to run the passenger services......not the government department.

I guess you forgot when Connex's trains ran late alot, journeys were terminated at an earlier station because they were so late or cancelled. There was even a story on Today Tonight or A Current Affair. Punctuality was bad with Metro too.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... -wni4.html

That Age article is 11 years old....suggesting that current or recent services have met the government criteria for performance.
And besides private companies are penalised financially when they fail to meet performance standards.

What happens when a government run dept fails to meet service standards......not much.....50 emails demanding better standards.

[rubberman]

Here's just one example of why privatisation is a shocker.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_No ... rn_Railway

If it can't work in the UK, it won't work here.

I don't think a London-northern England-Scotland regional passenger service is a good comparison to the Adelaide Metro train network.

And did you not read the article? When the UK government department reclaimed the franchise they set up a separate company to run the passenger services......not the government department.

I guess you forgot when Connex's trains ran late alot, journeys were terminated at an earlier station because they were so late or cancelled. There was even a story on Today Tonight or A Current Affair. Punctuality was bad with Metro too.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... -wni4.html

That Age article is 11 years old....suggesting that current or recent services have met the government criteria for performance.
And besides private companies are penalised financially when they fail to meet performance standards.

What happens when a government run dept fails to meet service standards......not much.....50 emails demanding better standards.

How does that affect the reality that there's been little change in service standards and no discernible financial benefit out of the privatisations we have had over the years?

ETSA privatisation resulted in the highest power prices in the world. What a bonus for business. Did privatisation of SGIC lead to lower and better insurance for SA? Or SA Water privatisation to lower water costs?

I must admit to being a little impatient after all the promises of how much more efficient and better and cheaper these privatised services are going to be. Always the same reasons are trotted out, and then no improvements not cheaper and less control by the public.

[rev]

Here's just one example of why privatisation is a shocker.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_No ... rn_Railway

If it can't work in the UK, it won't work here.

Seems to work in Melbourne.

I guess you forgot when Connex's trains ran late alot, journeys were terminated at an earlier station because they were so late or cancelled. There was even a story on Today Tonight or A Current Affair. Punctuality was bad with Metro too.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... -wni4.html

Because government ran public transport always works 100% perfectly without a hitch ever. Like ever, right?

It's widely known that Melbourne has one of the best public transport networks. And their PT network is growing and seeing significant upgrades. Meanwhile in Adelaide...lets catch up to the 20th century finally.

[cmet]

Here's just one example of why privatisation is a shocker.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_No ... rn_Railway

If it can't work in the UK, it won't work here.

Seems to work in Melbourne.

I guess you forgot when Connex's trains ran late alot, journeys were terminated at an earlier station because they were so late or cancelled. There was even a story on Today Tonight or A Current Affair. Punctuality was bad with Metro too.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... -wni4.html

If your citing today tonight or a current affair your credibility = 0 by default


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[ChillyPhilly]

Yeah nah, Melbourne residents are fed up with constant delays.

Above all, I'm actually quite disappointed to see quite a few people here seemingly in favour of the flogging off of another asset that we, as taxpayers, are meant to own.

[SBD]

Yeah nah, Melbourne residents are fed up with constant delays.

Above all, I'm actually quite disappointed to see quite a few people here seemingly in favour of the flogging off of another asset that we, as taxpayers, are meant to own.

Is it really "flogged off" or is the government contracting out the day-to-day management of a service? The government continues to own the tracks, pays to provide the service and sets the fares, exactly the same as it does the metropolitan bus service.

I'm not sure whether it would be KD or DIT that would be responsible for initiating a new service such as Mawson Lakes to Osborne or extending the Gawler Central services to Kalbeeba/Concordia. I gather KD has recently extended Adelaide Metro bus services to Littlehampton and Nairrne, but don't know who initiated it.

The ALP likes to talk about the "foreign company" Keolis Downer. I suspect that in France, it would also be a "foreign company" due to the 49% ownership by Australian company Downer Rail.

[Eurostar]

Yeah nah, Melbourne residents are fed up with constant delays.

Above all, I'm actually quite disappointed to see quite a few people here seemingly in favour of the flogging off of another asset that we, as taxpayers, are meant to own.

Is it really "flogged off" or is the government contracting out the day-to-day management of a service? The government continues to own the tracks, pays to provide the service and sets the fares, exactly the same as it does the metropolitan bus service.

I'm not sure whether it would be KD or DIT that would be responsible for initiating a new service such as Mawson Lakes to Osborne or extending the Gawler Central services to Kalbeeba/Concordia. I gather KD has recently extended Adelaide Metro bus services to Littlehampton and Nairrne, but don't know who initiated it.

The ALP likes to talk about the "foreign company" Keolis Downer. I suspect that in France, it would also be a "foreign company" due to the 49% ownership by Australian company Downer Rail.

Even TransAdelaide in a way was privatizing without actually privatizing, like if the train was late I think TransAdelaide was still penalised?

[rev]

Above all, I'm actually quite disappointed to see quite a few people here seemingly in favour of the flogging off of another asset that we, as taxpayers, are meant to own.

Why, are we supposed to be living up to your expectations?