News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
Nort
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by Nort »

mattwinter wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:25 am
I'd say if our metro network ever went to standard gauge or if we moved freight away so they could convert the hills line, there would be a chance. Still not a super efficent route though, although I reckon for Mt Barker the travel time to the city would be comparable to a bus down the freeway.
Also have to consider what travel times coming down into the city along the freeway and inner-city roads might be like in 25-50 years.
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PeFe
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by PeFe »

A Mt Barker train service has been discussed on these forums a million times before, each time with the same conclusion, the slow windy hills train line will never compete, timewise, with a direct bus service down the freeway.

Even with projected growth in Mt Barker (and that's probably the only hills town where the population will grow significantly. Bridgewater, Crafers, Aldgate etc will never become suburban sprawl) the freeway will remain the quickest public transport option.....even with thousands of more cars using it.
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whatstheirnamesmom
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by whatstheirnamesmom »

PeFe wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:42 pm
A Mt Barker train service has been discussed on these forums a million times before, each time with the same conclusion, the slow windy hills train line will never compete, timewise, with a direct bus service down the freeway.
I agree that the current windy alignment will never compete, and will never be a good long-term option for hills residents. But I also think they deserve better than being serviced by a single road into and out of the CBD, so discuss some more we shall :P
PeFe wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:42 pm
Even with projected growth in Mt Barker [...] the freeway will remain the quickest public transport option.....even with thousands of more cars using it.
If we could make a rail option more time competitive, I think we should do it — regardless of the cost or the difficulty. It would be the first step in linking, revitalising, and investing into Adelaide's regions (Murray Bridge, Victor, beyond...), and a major win in the battle for an integrated PT network.

If money were no object, and if I could click my fingers, I'd add a new alignment:

Image
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by PD2/20 »

whatstheirnamesmom wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:09 pm
PeFe wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:42 pm
A Mt Barker train service has been discussed on these forums a million times before, each time with the same conclusion, the slow windy hills train line will never compete, timewise, with a direct bus service down the freeway.
I agree that the current windy alignment will never compete, and will never be a good long-term option for hills residents. But I also think they deserve better than being serviced by a single road into and out of the CBD, so discuss some more we shall :P
PeFe wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:42 pm
Even with projected growth in Mt Barker [...] the freeway will remain the quickest public transport option.....even with thousands of more cars using it.
If we could make a rail option more time competitive, I think we should do it — regardless of the cost or the difficulty. It would be the first step in linking, revitalising, and investing into Adelaide's regions (Murray Bridge, Victor, beyond...), and a major win in the battle for an integrated PT network.

If money were no object, and if I could click my fingers, I'd add a new alignment:

Image
The problem wiith the new alignment is the gradient. From Goodwood up to Mt Lofty Summit there is a steady gradient of 1 in 45. If you shorten the route you increase the gradient. 1 in 45 is close to the maximum practicable for conventional rail traction. The windy route via Eden Hills was taken for a very good reason.
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whatstheirnamesmom
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by whatstheirnamesmom »

PD2/20 wrote:
whatstheirnamesmom wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:09 pm
PeFe wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:42 pm
A Mt Barker train service has been discussed on these forums a million times before, each time with the same conclusion, the slow windy hills train line will never compete, timewise, with a direct bus service down the freeway.
I agree that the current windy alignment will never compete, and will never be a good long-term option for hills residents. But I also think they deserve better than being serviced by a single road into and out of the CBD, so discuss some more we shall Image
PeFe wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:42 pm
Even with projected growth in Mt Barker [...] the freeway will remain the quickest public transport option.....even with thousands of more cars using it.
If we could make a rail option more time competitive, I think we should do it — regardless of the cost or the difficulty. It would be the first step in linking, revitalising, and investing into Adelaide's regions (Murray Bridge, Victor, beyond...), and a major win in the battle for an integrated PT network.

If money were no object, and if I could click my fingers, I'd add a new alignment:

Image
The problem wiith the new alignment is the gradient. From Goodwood up to Mt Lofty Summit there is a steady gradient of 1 in 45. If you shorten the route you increase the gradient. 1 in 45 is close to the maximum practicable for conventional rail traction. The windy route via Eden Hills was taken for a very good reason.
Do you think it would be feasible with tunnels, bridges, and/or viaducts? I'm sure it could be done at a more manageable gradient, but would require a more creative (read: expensive) solution. But far from impossible (I hope)

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by Patrick_27 »

Those arguing against the need for a train service to Mount Barker haven't been up there in a very long time, it would seem; the project is overdue (much like a lot things here in Adelaide), especially considering the freeway is evidently at capacity (and these baby upgrades such as the recent Crafers to Stirling aren't going to suffice longterm). A majority of bus services are dipping into each township along the way down the freeway picking up more passengers which is delaying the time it takes for these buses to get down to the plains by even more all the while contending with peak hour traffic. I did once agree with the vision set out by that former department head of a viaduct from Mitcham Station through Brownhill Creek and then connecting up with the centre median of the freeway as the best solution, and in some parts, I still think Mitcham Station and cutting through Brownhill Creek is the best option for taking away some of that travel time and saving some $$ (so long as it can be done with consideration to the surrounding bushland - similar to how they crossed the Seaford Line over the Onkaparinga). However, I'm realising more now that the land available through the centre of the freeway will be vital for a further two lane expansion of that roadway in the not-too-distant future; it would cost more to widen the span of of each road bridge going over the S/E Freeway from Crafers and Mount Barker than it would to build a train line on a new corridor elsewhere.

Regardless of where it goes, it needs to happen and rather than wait for a time when the network is begging for it, why not get ahead of the score for a change? It's a project that can justifiably secure a large sum of federal funding so long as it's argued that the purpose is to remove freight from suburban Adelaide and reinstate the PT services that were previously there and remove due to freight occupying the corridor. I would also argue that if they do take it on a different route from say Mitcham that they consider closing stations beyond Blackwood, anyone who has travelled out that way at any time of the day would tell you that going out to Belair is a courtesy for the few who take the train from there.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by SBD »

Patrick_27 wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:39 pm
Those arguing against the need for a train service to Mount Barker haven't been up there in a very long time, it would seem; the project is overdue (much like a lot things here in Adelaide), especially considering the freeway is evidently at capacity (and these baby upgrades such as the recent Crafers to Stirling aren't going to suffice longterm). A majority of bus services are dipping into each township along the way down the freeway picking up more passengers which is delaying the time it takes for these buses to get down to the plains by even more all the while contending with peak hour traffic. I did once agree with the vision set out by that former department head of a viaduct from Mitcham Station through Brownhill Creek and then connecting up with the centre median of the freeway as the best solution, and in some parts, I still think Mitcham Station and cutting through Brownhill Creek is the best option for taking away some of that travel time and saving some $$ (so long as it can be done with consideration to the surrounding bushland - similar to how they crossed the Seaford Line over the Onkaparinga). However, I'm realising more now that the land available through the centre of the freeway will be vital for a further two lane expansion of that roadway in the not-too-distant future; it would cost more to widen the span of of each road bridge going over the S/E Freeway from Crafers and Mount Barker than it would to build a train line on a new corridor elsewhere.

Regardless of where it goes, it needs to happen and rather than wait for a time when the network is begging for it, why not get ahead of the score for a change? It's a project that can justifiably secure a large sum of federal funding so long as it's argued that the purpose is to remove freight from suburban Adelaide and reinstate the PT services that were previously there and remove due to freight occupying the corridor. I would also argue that if they do take it on a different route from say Mitcham that they consider closing stations beyond Blackwood, anyone who has travelled out that way at any time of the day would tell you that going out to Belair is a courtesy for the few who take the train from there.
Any improved alignment needs to go somewhere that does not require it to go over the ridge in the vicinity of Crafers/Mount Lofty Station/Stirling. Either it goes under that ridge, or around it.

I wonder if a railway could be built in the same corridor as the "Short South" freeway option which could be built to remove heavy trucks from the long freeway descent.

Neither party has yet come out with a transport plan for next year's elections (other than tunnels to complete the NS Motorway). It will be interesting to see what else they each come up with. It's a key issue for Rebekha Sharkie's electorate too, as she is the sitting member for the federal electorate that includes Mount Barker and most of the farmland that would be consumed by new road or rail corridors.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by Spotto »

SBD wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 6:44 pm
Any improved alignment needs to go somewhere that does not require it to go over the ridge in the vicinity of Crafers/Mount Lofty Station/Stirling. Either it goes under that ridge, or around it.

I wonder if a railway could be built in the same corridor as the "Short South" freeway option which could be built to remove heavy trucks from the long freeway descent.
That's an interesting thought. The longer route would certainly ease the climb between the Eden Hills tunnel (the presumed launch point) to the SEF at either Hahndorf or Mount Barker which is a problem that the proposed Brown Hill Creek alignment to either Crafers Interchange or Mount Lofty Station has to encounter.

The caveat would be that it completely avoids the kind-of-a-suburb-but-not-really Crafers-Bridgewater area which misses out on a key target population that would no doubt also prefer a train into the CBD over a bus. A Short South rail alignment would mean that the 21km section between Eden Hills station and SEF there would be at most one half-decent station near the boundary between Coromandel Valley and Flagstaff Hill, maybe a small stop at Mylor?. Would be a great realignment for the freight line, not so much for a possible passenger line.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by Jacob_ULG3 »

I know you guys were talking about a proposal of a line to Mt Lofty etc.

Im just going to point out now that the OH line shut from today.

Electrification work has begun in the railyards in Adelaide. Hanging structures are now on the existing portal structures and possibly all the way through to the junction that connects to the Belair Line. I dont know as it was hard to see from the Montifiere Bridge

It will not take long for that area to be complete with the Seaford and Belair Lines shut at night to begin shortly.

Im sure.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by ChillyPhilly »

Some quick snaps of the Adelaide Yard works.

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by Norman »

Some more photos here:

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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by Jacob_ULG3 »

Went for a walk around the Torrens.

Saw some work they are doing out there today (17/04/2021)
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by PD2/20 »

Considerable progress has been made in the electification in Adelaide Yard since last Saturday. Crews have been working in Platforms 5-9 fitting fibreglass rod insulators to the dropper posts. In the yard the few isolated masts that had been left unerected since the 2013 closure are now up. The dropper posts, insulators, 25kV arms and other fittings have been attached to the portal structures in the North half of the yard. Almost all the mast structures have been erected out to Torrens Bridge and also for the layover sidings to the North of the yard. This afternoon two runs of earth cable and some tensioning cables had been strung as far as SAHMRI. A gantry mounted electrical link is being constructed in the fork of the Belair and Gawler lines. The worksite extends over all Port and Gawler at the eastern end of the yard, excludes the down Gawler track in the middle of the yard and narrows to the two Port tracks at the crossovers at the western yard.

It looks as if the overhead work is being concentrated on the yard during the two week closure. Little work has been evident elsewhere on the Gawler line this month. Its looking as if a significant part of the north yard will be strung in the next few days, but I would expect the connections to the Belair tracks would remain unstrung until the July closure.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by Jacob_ULG3 »

PD2/20 wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:44 pm
Considerable progress has been made in the electification in Adelaide Yard since last Saturday. Crews have been working in Platforms 5-9 fitting fibreglass rod insulators to the dropper posts. In the yard the few isolated masts that had been left unerected since the 2013 closure are now up. The dropper posts, insulators, 25kV arms and other fittings have been attached to the portal structures in the North half of the yard. Almost all the mast structures have been erected out to Torrens Bridge and also for the layover sidings to the North of the yard. This afternoon two runs of earth cable and some tensioning cables had been strung as far as SAHMRI. A gantry mounted electrical link is being constructed in the fork of the Belair and Gawler lines. The worksite extends over all Port and Gawler at the eastern end of the yard, excludes the down Gawler track in the middle of the yard and narrows to the two Port tracks at the crossovers at the western yard.

It looks as if the overhead work is being concentrated on the yard during the two week closure. Little work has been evident elsewhere on the Gawler line this month. Its looking as if a significant part of the north yard will be strung in the next few days, but I would expect the connections to the Belair tracks would remain unstrung until the July closure.

It would seem all if not most structures between adelaide and Salisbury are now up. I reckon you may be right that they havent done any progress elsewhere and focusing on the adelaide yard. If they focus on that area for the remainder of the school holidays which finishes up just over a week from now. I posted out some photos of the yard and of the torrens junction section with portal structures being put into place today. They were putting all of the beams over the tracks up this afternoon.

It wouldnt surprise me if after the school holidays closures are over for the other lines that they begin stringing the wiring from Adelaide to Salisbury all the way now that they have the starting point ready.
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Re: News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

Post by adelaide transport »

It would appear that come November this year(if all the work is completed as promised) there will only be 2 electric train sets available for day to day operation. The rest will not be delivered until various times in 2022.
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