[U/C] M2 North-South Motorway

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Spotto
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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

Post by Spotto »

Saw the bridge sections for myself while driving past. Is it just me or is the green that they've chosen hideous? I'm surprised they didn't just go with the same dark grey as the Darlington road bridges and actually chose to use colour. Colour is not a bad thing, burnt orange on the Flinders Link looks good and a different shade of green or another colour altogether could've worked here. But the green they chose gives me toddler Lego vibes. :?

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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

Post by Patrick_27 »

Spotto wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:21 pm
Saw the bridge sections for myself while driving past. Is it just me or is the green that they've chosen hideous? I'm surprised they didn't just go with the same dark grey as the Darlington road bridges and actually chose to use colour. Colour is not a bad thing, burnt orange on the Flinders Link looks good and a different shade of green or another colour altogether could've worked here. But the green they chose gives me toddler Lego vibes. :?

Image
IMO the green looks great, whereas I hate the burnt orange. Too much of Adelaide's massive infrastructure projects use shades or red or blue, it's nice to see some green in the mix for a change.
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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

Post by croweater888 »

Final stage of North-South Corridor may not be completed for 15 years, leaked documents reveal
Leaked Cabinet documents show the final stage of the North-South Corridor may not be completed until 2035 – more than a decade behind what was originally planned.


The final stage of the North-South Corridor project may not be completed until 2035, leaked state government documents reveal.

The confidential Cabinet documents, obtained by the Opposition and seen by The Advertiser, show timeframes and costings for a tunnel from Tonsley to near Anzac Highway.

It shows major construction work on the proposed tunnel, which would form Stage 1 of the project, might not start until 2024 and may not be completed until mid-2028.

The papers also reveals work on Stages 2a and 2b, between Anzac Highway and the River Torrens, would not begin until Stage 1 was finished and could take a further two-and-a-half years and four years respectively to complete.

This would mean the project may not be completed for 14.5 years, or more than a decade late.

Labor says the focus on the tunnels option in the documents indicates it is the government’s preferred option.

Tunnels had been favoured by residents along the 10.5km stretch between the River Torrens, near Thebarton, and Darlington because it would save hundreds of properties, including the Thebarton Theatre, from potential demolition.

The other option under consideration is an elevated motorway, similar to the Torrens to Torrens project.

The leaked documents stated the elevated motorway would be $1 billion cheaper than a tunnels option, estimated to cost $9.9 billion.

Opposition transport and infrastructure spokesman Tom Koutsantonis said the leak showed “that there are people inside Corey Wingard’s department who are seriously concerned about his handling of major projects”.

“Shockingly, these documents reveal this project is not set to be complete until the mid-2030s,” he said.

“It’s important to remember, it was originally promised this project would be complete in 2023.

“Now that these documents have been sensationally leaked, the Marshall Liberal Government needs to come clean with the people of South Australia about its plans for the North-South Corridor and how it will it fund the $3.5 billion shortfall.”

Comment is being sought from Transport and Infrastructure Minister Corey Wingard.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... fc2f49beb3

--

I'm not sure what to make of this TBH, if it was as 'relevant' a document as they claim, wouldn't they attack the Government in Parliament about it and then use the press to pile the pressure on?

That said, the Libs aren't doing themselves any favours with answers like this one from last week, what a load of fluff:
http://hansardpublic.parliament.sa.gov. ... D-11-39215
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Norman
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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

Post by Norman »

I love this bit:
The other option under consideration is an elevated motorway, similar to the Torrens to Torrens project.
I didn't know that the T2T trench had suddenly turned into an elevated Motorway...
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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

Post by ChillyPhilly »

Norman wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:40 pm
I love this bit:
The other option under consideration is an elevated motorway, similar to the Torrens to Torrens project.
I didn't know that the T2T trench had suddenly turned into an elevated Motorway...
It's just inverted. Haven't you seen Tenet yet?
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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

Post by SRW »

The InDaily article is a little more coherent:

https://indaily.com.au/news/2020/10/19/ ... lay-labor/

If it's to be believed, we're on on track to get the reverse of what most expected: a tunnel from Tonsley to Anzac, and lowered/at-grade hybrid from Anzac to Torrens. That leaves live the question of how to manage the built environment of Thebarton and Henley that would have been avoided by tunnelling there instead.
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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

Post by how good is he »

Even if its finished in 10 years that's only 1 km a year on average for the 10kms of road... plus the cost of probably $1 billion per km.. something is wrong. TBMs can do 10-15 kms in one year... even allowing 2-3 years to complete it would be fair... but 10 -15 years?
Last edited by how good is he on Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Spotto
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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

Post by Spotto »

croweater888 wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:36 pm
It shows major construction work on the proposed tunnel, which would form Stage 1 of the project, might not start until 2024 and may not be completed until mid-2028.

The papers also reveals work on Stages 2a and 2b, between Anzac Highway and the River Torrens, would not begin until Stage 1 was finished and could take a further two-and-a-half years and four years respectively to complete.

This would mean the project may not be completed for 14.5 years, or more than a decade late.
Is anybody surprised in the slightest?
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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

Post by Vasco »

Spotto wrote:
croweater888 wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:36 pm
It shows major construction work on the proposed tunnel, which would form Stage 1 of the project, might not start until 2024 and may not be completed until mid-2028.

The papers also reveals work on Stages 2a and 2b, between Anzac Highway and the River Torrens, would not begin until Stage 1 was finished and could take a further two-and-a-half years and four years respectively to complete.

This would mean the project may not be completed for 14.5 years, or more than a decade late.
Is anybody surprised in the slightest?
No and no confidence in Minister Windbag’s guarantee of a 2030 completion either.


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mawsonguy
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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

Post by mawsonguy »

From InDaily:
The Opposition says the second stage appears to be a lowered roadway and open road between Anzac Highway and the River Torrens – which would not begin until Stage 1 was completed, likely in mid-2028.

The documents, seen by InDaily, state the Stage 2 construction date will be “driven by Stage 1 operational start”.
I'm not sure that means that Stage 2 is not started until after Stage 1 is completed. I anticipate that Stage 1 will impact on Stage 2 by, for example, using the earthmoving capacity necessessary for Stage 2 but I can't see why they couldn't start Stage 2 before Stage 1 is completed (e.g. after earthworks have been completed and whilst Stage 1 is still being fitted out).

The fact that Labor has not made the document public suggests that they are "spinning" it.

Of course, it could be the Government who has leaked it with a view to "spinning" it.
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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

Post by Saltwater »

This feels like a targeted leak to either identify a serial leaker within the LNP, and / or (and possibly more likely) make Koutsantonis look like an idiot.

It is completely at odds with the most recent high level scoping study, which mentioned either trench the whole way or tunnel from the river to Anzac Highway, and trench from there south. Notwithstanding the geological surveys are still underway in the inner west.
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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

Post by SBD »

Saltwater wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:43 pm
This feels like a targeted leak to either identify a serial leaker within the LNP, and / or (and possibly more likely) make Koutsantonis look like an idiot.

It is completely at odds with the most recent high level scoping study, which mentioned either trench the whole way or tunnel from the river to Anzac Highway, and trench from there south. Notwithstanding the geological surveys are still underway in the inner west.
Koutsantonis says that the project was originally promised to be completed in 2023.... Who promised that date, and when? Was it Mr Koutsantonis himself, as minister for Transport and Infrastructure before the 2014 election? Apart from standing in front of the Thebarton Theatre to protect it from any possible Liberal bulldozers, has he done anything to develop that promise?
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[U/C] M2 North-South Motorway

Post by Vasco »

SBD wrote:
Saltwater wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:43 pm
This feels like a targeted leak to either identify a serial leaker within the LNP, and / or (and possibly more likely) make Koutsantonis look like an idiot.

It is completely at odds with the most recent high level scoping study, which mentioned either trench the whole way or tunnel from the river to Anzac Highway, and trench from there south. Notwithstanding the geological surveys are still underway in the inner west.
Koutsantonis says that the project was originally promised to be completed in 2023.... Who promised that date, and when? Was it Mr Koutsantonis himself, as minister for Transport and Infrastructure before the 2014 election? Apart from standing in front of the Thebarton Theatre to protect it from any possible Liberal bulldozers, has he done anything to develop that promise?
Well actually it was Tony Abbott that always trumpeted the North South Motorway would be competed within 10 years... to be delivered by an incoming Marshal Liberal Government. (Various links provide this false throwaway promise).

My favourite part of the below article is this excerpt;

Mr Marshall said developing the master plan would be a first order of business for a Liberal SA government with a view to having the entire project completed as soon as possible.


https://www.news.com.au/national/breaki ... f6fc784bbc

SA Liberals back north-south road corridor
OCTOBER 19, 2013


THE South Australian opposition has pledged to develop a plan for Adelaide's long-awaited north-south road corridor if it wins the March state election.

Liberal leader Steven Marshall says a plan to develop the entire corridor, which has drawn support from the federal government, would end the disjointed approach taken in recent years.

He says it would result in free-flowing traffic, improved commuter safety and reduced congestion.

"A master plan for the entire north-south is a sensible solution," Mr Marshall said after an address to the South Australian Liberal Party annual meeting on Saturday.

"For years the state Labor government has had a disjointed approach to transport and infrastructure that has failed to deliver outcomes for South Australians."

Prime Minister Tony Abbott also told Saturday's meeting that the federal government would help fund the project.

Before the recent federal election the coalition pledged $500 million to help fund an upgrade to a section of the corridor at suburban Darlington.

On Saturday Mr Abbott also indicated federal support for upgrading the Torrens Road section of the corridor and to developing the entire corridor within 10 years.

Mr Marshall said developing the master plan would be a first order of business for a Liberal SA government with a view to having the entire project completed as soon as possible.

The idea of a north-south road corridor across Adelaide was first suggested back in the 1960s.


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SBD
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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

Post by SBD »

Vasco wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:15 pm
SBD wrote:
Saltwater wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:43 pm
This feels like a targeted leak to either identify a serial leaker within the LNP, and / or (and possibly more likely) make Koutsantonis look like an idiot.

It is completely at odds with the most recent high level scoping study, which mentioned either trench the whole way or tunnel from the river to Anzac Highway, and trench from there south. Notwithstanding the geological surveys are still underway in the inner west.
Koutsantonis says that the project was originally promised to be completed in 2023.... Who promised that date, and when? Was it Mr Koutsantonis himself, as minister for Transport and Infrastructure before the 2014 election? Apart from standing in front of the Thebarton Theatre to protect it from any possible Liberal bulldozers, has he done anything to develop that promise?
Well actually it was Tony Abbott that always trumpeted the North South Motorway would be competed within 10 years... to be delivered by an incoming Marshal Liberal Government. (Various links provide this false throwaway promise).

My favourite part of the below article is this excerpt;

Mr Marshall said developing the master plan would be a first order of business for a Liberal SA government with a view to having the entire project completed as soon as possible.


https://www.news.com.au/national/breaki ... f6fc784bbc

SA Liberals back north-south road corridor
OCTOBER 19, 2013


THE South Australian opposition has pledged to develop a plan for Adelaide's long-awaited north-south road corridor if it wins the March state election.

Liberal leader Steven Marshall says a plan to develop the entire corridor, which has drawn support from the federal government, would end the disjointed approach taken in recent years.

He says it would result in free-flowing traffic, improved commuter safety and reduced congestion.

"A master plan for the entire north-south is a sensible solution," Mr Marshall said after an address to the South Australian Liberal Party annual meeting on Saturday.

"For years the state Labor government has had a disjointed approach to transport and infrastructure that has failed to deliver outcomes for South Australians."

Prime Minister Tony Abbott also told Saturday's meeting that the federal government would help fund the project.

Before the recent federal election the coalition pledged $500 million to help fund an upgrade to a section of the corridor at suburban Darlington.

On Saturday Mr Abbott also indicated federal support for upgrading the Torrens Road section of the corridor and to developing the entire corridor within 10 years.

Mr Marshall said developing the master plan would be a first order of business for a Liberal SA government with a view to having the entire project completed as soon as possible.

The idea of a north-south road corridor across Adelaide was first suggested back in the 1960s.


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Thanks for the correction - so it was promised by the Liberals if they won the 2014 election. Labor won that election, so for Koutsantonis to claim it was to promised to be completed by 2023, he has to demonstrate that Labor did enough in the four years that he was Treasurer to stay on that timeline. Maybe Northern Connector and Darlington count for that, but the complete lack of any planning for the "hard bits" in the middle suggest that even if Labor had won in 2018, they could not have kept anywhere near that goal.
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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway

Post by rev »

how good is he wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:27 pm
Even if its finished in 10 years that's only 1 km a year on average for the 10kms of road... plus the cost of probably $1 billion per km.. something is wrong. TBMs can do 10-15 kms in one year... even allowing 2-3 years to complete it would be fair... but 10 -15 years?
Take away about 3-4 years or so before they actually start even digging up anything.
Then factor in that it seems it's going to be staged, so another year or two delay.

There's no master plan for anything in this state, it's just made up as they go along.
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