[U/C] Flinders Rail Link

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TorrensSA
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[U/C] Re: Flinders Rail Link

Post by TorrensSA »

The new timetable looks like a good first step, 30min day frequency is not bad, it should be 20min. Having Seaford being all stops at night, gives the inner stations 4 trains an hour, which is crazy at 10pm yet Seaford trains run express on weekend nights. Trains still leave every 15min during the day from Seaford / ARS, but half are now express, which saves 4/5min, which is great, but leaves an odd 11/19min frequency further up the line when leaving from ARS.
Also I can't figure out why the trip to Brighton on an all stops train is 27min heading to Seaford but 28min heading to ARS, the entire trip Seaford to ARS is 50min both ways.
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[U/C] Re: Flinders Rail Link

Post by SBD »

TorrensSA wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:33 am
The new timetable looks like a good first step, 30min day frequency is not bad, it should be 20min. Having Seaford being all stops at night, gives the inner stations 4 trains an hour, which is crazy at 10pm yet Seaford trains run express on weekend nights. Trains still leave every 15min during the day from Seaford / ARS, but half are now express, which saves 4/5min, which is great, but leaves an odd 11/19min frequency further up the line when leaving from ARS.
Also I can't figure out why the trip to Brighton on an all stops train is 27min heading to Seaford but 28min heading to ARS, the entire trip Seaford to ARS is 50min both ways.
It's uphill from Brighton to Adelaide?

Perhaps the actual time is between 27 and 28 minutes, but rolling in to the terminal station is enough slower to tip it over to the next minute in that direction? If the who trip is the same timetable time each way, there must be another gap that is different in the other direction to match.
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PeFe
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[U/C] Re: Flinders Rail Link

Post by PeFe »

Just sent off my personal response to the proposed Flinders timetable to the Department of Transport and Infrastructure.

My points being 1) daytime frequency should be 20 minutes
2) last train from city should be 2352, not 2252
3) Flinders and Seaford should now be separate lines. Flinders all stops to the city...all the time and Seaford express to
Woodlands Park....all the time.
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[U/C] Re: Flinders Rail Link

Post by Nathan »

PeFe wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:31 pm
3) Flinders and Seaford should now be separate lines. Flinders all stops to the city...all the time and Seaford express to Woodlands Park....all the time.
Yes to Seaford being express, but perhaps stopping either Showgrounds or Goodwood (but def. skip Mile End, Clarence Park, Emerson & Edwardstown)
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AG
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[U/C] Re: Flinders Rail Link

Post by AG »

Unless upgrades or additional tracks are created between Woodlands Park and Goodwood, I think the proposed stopping pattern is a fair compromise given the lack of overtaking tracks. Making Flinders stop all stations and Seaford express would likely result in the express services being stuck behind the all stops services anyway! I do agree with making services start earlier and finish later.
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[U/C] Re: Flinders Rail Link

Post by mattwinter »

AG wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:22 pm
Unless upgrades or additional tracks are created between Woodlands Park and Goodwood, I think the proposed stopping pattern is a fair compromise given the lack of overtaking tracks. Making Flinders stop all stations and Seaford express would likely result in the express services being stuck behind the all stops services anyway! I do agree with making services start earlier and finish later.
I would have thought you could pretty easily time it so that a flinders train always comes right after a seaford express. Then if you're taking the seaford line you can always jump off at Woodlands and quickly transfer to the all-stopper behind you if you want to get off before the city.

Do agree that a seaford express should always stop at one of the Belair stations (Goodwood, Showgrounds) to make it easier to transfer to the Belair line too. Probably Goodwood if longer term they upgrade it and make it easier to transfer to a tram as well.
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[U/C] Re: Flinders Rail Link

Post by Spotto »

mattwinter wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:42 am
Do agree that a seaford express should always stop at one of the Belair stations (Goodwood, Showgrounds) to make it easier to transfer to the Belair line too. Probably Goodwood if longer term they upgrade it and make it easier to transfer to a tram as well.
I'd say both. Showground year-round for any events and especially so they won't have to mess with timetables every year when it's show time to stop at the Showgrounds. Goodwood because it's a quieter transfer between Seaford and Belair and for a tram stop in future (which would require a new overpass but should be done).
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[U/C] Re: Flinders Rail Link

Post by claybro »

Is there any need for Seaford to stop at Showgrounds, even at showtime? It's not much of a walk to the south entry from Goodwood. Showgrounds would be well serviced by Belair and Flinders trains surely and those living oiling the Seaford line could just use Goodwood without any need to alter timetables.
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[U/C] Re: Flinders Rail Link

Post by Spotto »

claybro wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:32 pm
Is there any need for Seaford to stop at Showgrounds, even at showtime? It's not much of a walk to the south entry from Goodwood.
That was the whole point of building the Showground station. :wallbash:

Nobody will want to walk 5-10 minutes from Goodwood when there’s a perfectly good station that was built to cope with the large crowds, is accessibility compliant, and drops you right at the gates. Likewise it would also be pointless to transfer to a stopping train for a single stop.
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[U/C] Re: Flinders Rail Link

Post by Patrick_27 »

Spotto wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:52 pm
claybro wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:32 pm
Is there any need for Seaford to stop at Showgrounds, even at showtime? It's not much of a walk to the south entry from Goodwood.
That was the whole point of building the Showground station. :wallbash:

Nobody will want to walk 5-10 minutes from Goodwood when there’s a perfectly good station that was built to cope with the large crowds, is accessibility compliant, and drops you right at the gates. Likewise it would also be pointless to transfer to a stopping train for a single stop.
I'd argue that unless they do a massive upgrade Goodwood Station and create better connections between trams and trains there, they might as well close the station and use the Showgrounds in taking on the patronage that uses Goodwood.
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[U/C] Re: Flinders Rail Link

Post by mattwinter »

Patrick_27 wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:58 pm
Spotto wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:52 pm
claybro wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:32 pm
Is there any need for Seaford to stop at Showgrounds, even at showtime? It's not much of a walk to the south entry from Goodwood.
That was the whole point of building the Showground station. :wallbash:

Nobody will want to walk 5-10 minutes from Goodwood when there’s a perfectly good station that was built to cope with the large crowds, is accessibility compliant, and drops you right at the gates. Likewise it would also be pointless to transfer to a stopping train for a single stop.
I'd argue that unless they do a massive upgrade Goodwood Station and create better connections between trams and trains there, they might as well close the station and use the Showgrounds in taking on the patronage that uses Goodwood.
They're both pretty well used stations compared to some others so I wouldn't think closing either would be on the cards any time soon. At showtime I often get off at Goodwood to avoid the crowds at Showgrounds station, but it would be madness to not have seaford trains stopping at Showgrounds during showtime.
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[U/C] Re: Flinders Rail Link

Post by 1NEEDS2POST »

AG wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:22 pm
Unless upgrades or additional tracks are created between Woodlands Park and Goodwood, I think the proposed stopping pattern is a fair compromise given the lack of overtaking tracks. Making Flinders stop all stations and Seaford express would likely result in the express services being stuck behind the all stops services anyway! I do agree with making services start earlier and finish later.
Looking at the timetable (https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/conten ... -06-19.pdf) ARS to Woodlands Park is 11 minutes non-stop. 15 or 16 minutes all stops.

Suppose we can signal trains two minutes apart (which is generous, many rail systems around the world run smaller headways).
  • Non-stop train leaves ARS at 12:00.
  • All stops train leaves ARS at 12:02.
  • Non-stop train arrives at Woodlands Park at 12:11.
  • All stops train arrives at Woodlands Park at 12:18.
  • The soonest the next express train can arrive at Woodlands Park is at 12:20.
  • So the soonest the next express train can leave ARS is at 12:09.
We can support a nine minute frequency with this proposal. If the express trains actually stop at Goodwood and Showgrounds like other posters suggest, then the frequency can be even better. A train every 20 minutes works too with this proposal.

Goodwood should be a transport interchange since there are three railway lines, the tram and Goodwood Rd buses all right there.
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