[PRO] Birkenhead Bridge Upgrade Project

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Ho Really
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[PRO] Re: Birkenhead Bridge Upgrade Project

Post by Ho Really »

Honey of a City wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:52 am
Who’s proposing a tram over the Birkenhead Bridge?
No one is proposing anything, but if anyone wants to see a tram along this path the bridge should be substituted with a tunnel in precast concrete.

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[PRO] Re: Birkenhead Bridge Upgrade Project

Post by Aidan »

How about extending Perkins Drive (aka eastern Bypass) to the southern end of Commercial Road?
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[PRO] Re: Birkenhead Bridge Upgrade Project

Post by Eurostar »

Aidan wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:43 pm
How about extending Perkins Drive (aka eastern Bypass) to the southern end of Commercial Road?
How do you plan to do that? Isn't there businesses on western side of viaduct ramp?
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rev
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[PRO] Re: Birkenhead Bridge Upgrade Project

Post by rev »

Eurostar wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:03 pm
Aidan wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:43 pm
How about extending Perkins Drive (aka eastern Bypass) to the southern end of Commercial Road?
How do you plan to do that? Isn't there businesses on western side of viaduct ramp?
Compulsory acquisition, the same thing they're doing for the NS Motorway.

From Perkins Drve/Bedford street you bring it down behind the businesses on Bower Cres and across to Russel st. Buy up the properties on either side and widen it.
That was half of my pie in the sky fantasy idea on the other page lol.
Continue across through the pizza bar and the carpark, over Portland place, and turn into Church st, widen that into a proper main road, and then fork around either side of the church at the end and then on to the Birkenhead bridge.
You then have a bypass of the main heart of the Port, but with easy access to and from it. Even upgrade the small extension of Old Port Rd between Grand Junction & Church st.

Then the train line that runs into the railway museum, drop that into a trench, and build a station at the end of it, and build multi-use development on top. Move the railway museum & the aviation museum to the empty land at the end of the existing Perkins drive, and combine them in one facility.
The old warehouses in the area, bring in developers to renovate them/convert them into apartments like has been done the world over.
This would also encourage/force property owners along Commercial road and other spots, where there are dilapidated buildings to get off their asses and fix them up..or sell them.
Any dirty or noisy industrial sites, start moving them out to Gilman.
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[PRO] Re: Birkenhead Bridge Upgrade Project

Post by Eurostar »

(rev) Compulsory acquisition, the same thing they're doing for the NS Motorway.

From Perkins Drve/Bedford street you bring it down behind the businesses on Bower Cres and across to Russel st. Buy up the properties on either side and widen it.
That was half of my pie in the sky fantasy idea on the other page lol.
Continue across through the pizza bar and the carpark, over Portland place, and turn into Church st, widen that into a proper main road, and then fork around either side of the church at the end and then on to the Birkenhead bridge.
You then have a bypass of the main heart of the Port, but with easy access to and from it. Even upgrade the small extension of Old Port Rd between Grand Junction & Church st.
If I had it my way and I wanted to be brutal I'd close and rip up the Outer Harbour Railway Line and then extend the existing tramway from Hindmarsh to Port Adelaide via Port Road and Commercial Road. Have new tramline from Woodville to West Lakes, then Military Road to Semaphore. The current 150 would just run as feeder between North Haven and Port Adelaide, the 157 would be replaced with more 333s with a small deviation via Largs beach in the summer.
Then the train line that runs into the railway museum, drop that into a trench, and build a station at the end of it, and build multi-use development on top. Move the railway museum & the aviation museum to the empty land at the end of the existing Perkins drive, and combine them in one facility.
The old warehouses in the area, bring in developers to renovate them/convert them into apartments like has been done the world over.
This would also encourage/force property owners along Commercial road and other spots, where there are dilapidated buildings to get off their asses and fix them up..or sell them.
Any dirty or noisy industrial sites, start moving them out to Gilman.
with no viaduct under my plan you could run a road on that alignment, Church Street will no longer have to go under the train line as it does now either.
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[PRO] Re: Birkenhead Bridge Upgrade Project

Post by Aidan »

rev,
When I said the southern part of Commercial Road, I meant near Cleave Street.

Eurostar,
Why would you want to rip up the Outer Harbour Line and replace part of it with a slower route?
Converting the Outer Harbour line to light rail is a sensible idea, and this may involve replacing the Port Adelaide viaduct with a street running section (with stations on Lipson Street and St Vincent Street, and possibly a new Ethelton station on the Jervois Bridge). But overall, for light rail to succeed it must be fast. A Port Road based alignment would be far too slow. And our bus network is inadequate for users of existing stations.
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[PRO] Re: Birkenhead Bridge Upgrade Project

Post by rev »

Aidan wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:07 am
rev,
When I said the southern part of Commercial Road, I meant near Cleave Street.

Eurostar,
Why would you want to rip up the Outer Harbour Line and replace part of it with a slower route?
Converting the Outer Harbour line to light rail is a sensible idea, and this may involve replacing the Port Adelaide viaduct with a street running section (with stations on Lipson Street and St Vincent Street, and possibly a new Ethelton station on the Jervois Bridge). But overall, for light rail to succeed it must be fast. A Port Road based alignment would be far too slow. And our bus network is inadequate for users of existing stations.
Wouldn't bringing it to there, cause traffic issues with two sets of lights within roughly 150~ meters of each other?
My idea is for a type of "ring route" around the Port cbd that links to the PREXY.
Eurostar wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:38 am
If I had it my way and I wanted to be brutal I'd close and rip up the Outer Harbour Railway Line and then extend the existing tramway from Hindmarsh to Port Adelaide via Port Road and Commercial Road. Have new tramline from Woodville to West Lakes, then Military Road to Semaphore. The current 150 would just run as feeder between North Haven and Port Adelaide, the 157 would be replaced with more 333s with a small deviation via Largs beach in the summer.
Why do so many people want to replace the trains on the outer harbor line with trams?
Personally I think a tram network should be built in the Port that branches out to Sempahore and Largs.
It can be incorporated into Dock 1, go over the Jervois Bridge and towards Fletchers Slip development, and then out towards Semaphore and along the coast to Largs.
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[PRO] Birkenhead Bridge Upgrade Project

Post by Aidan »

rev,
2 sets of lights 150m apart? That would be like the City except with a lot less traffic!
Port Adelaide doesnt need a full ring road - There's not much to the west, and Grand Junction Road already provides a southern alternative. It's really only the Port Road traffic that doesn't already have a better option.

As for why people want to replace the Outer Harbour Line trains with trams, the line does not serve Port Adelaide very well at the moment. Conversion to trams, with some on street running in Port Adelaide, would much better serve the premier commercial area on the line (other than the CBD itself), enabling it to attract more passengers. And it would enable more stops to be made on the northern Lefevre Peninsula (beyond Taperoo). But what DPTI and those who've produced reports for them don't understand is that conversion to light rail must not mean putting up with slowness!
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[PRO] Re: Birkenhead Bridge Upgrade Project

Post by rev »

Aidan wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:20 pm
rev,
2 sets of lights 150m apart? That would be like the City except with a lot less traffic!
Port Adelaide doesnt need a full ring road - There's not much to the west, and Grand Junction Road already provides a southern alternative. It's really only the Port Road traffic that doesn't already have a better option.
But isn't the plan to build up the Port? When do you build the infrastructure for an increased population and worker population? When they are already there or before they are there?
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[PRO] Re: Birkenhead Bridge Upgrade Project

Post by Aidan »

No, rev, the plan is to get through traffic to avoid central Port Adelaide.
There is also a plan to build it up, and that would benefit substantially from light rail.
AFAIK there's no plan to build up Semaphore South and Ethelton, so a full ring road does not make sense.
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[PRO] Re: Birkenhead Bridge Upgrade Project

Post by rev »

Aidan wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:33 am
No, rev, the plan is to get through traffic to avoid central Port Adelaide.
There is also a plan to build it up, and that would benefit substantially from light rail.
AFAIK there's no plan to build up Semaphore South and Ethelton, so a full ring road does not make sense.
So if you send through traffic away from commercial road, which runs through the central Port, doesnt that do what you say?
My "ring road" idea doesnt touch Ethelton nor Sem. South.
It was more an upgrade of an existing road, and extension of another to join it, and tgr "pedestrialisation" of other areas in between..you know less lanes or no cars in some spots, that section of commercial road would be downgraded.
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[PRO] Birkenhead Bridge Upgrade Project

Post by Aidan »

rev wrote:So if you send through traffic away from commercial road, which runs through the central Port, doesnt that do what you say?
Yes it does, therefore there's no point extending the bypass beyond Commercial Road.
My "ring road" idea doesnt touch Ethelton nor Sem. South.
It was more an upgrade of an existing road, and extension of another to join it, and tgr "pedestrialisation" of other areas in between..you know less lanes or no cars in some spots, that section of commercial road would be downgraded.
Of course. But without a large amount of traffic to and from Ethelton / Semaphore South, doing that does not require a full ring.
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[PRO] Re: Birkenhead Bridge Upgrade Project

Post by rev »

Isnt it logical to assume though that if the Port is revitalized and takes off, it will flow on to surrounding suburbs?
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[PRO] Re: Birkenhead Bridge Upgrade Project

Post by Waewick »

rev wrote:Isnt it logical to assume though that if the Port is revitalized and takes off, it will flow on to surrounding suburbs?
I think it's safe to say it's never taking off.

Port Adelaide is just another suburb.
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[PRO] Re: Birkenhead Bridge Upgrade Project

Post by rev »

Waewick wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:17 pm
rev wrote:Isnt it logical to assume though that if the Port is revitalized and takes off, it will flow on to surrounding suburbs?
I think it's safe to say it's never taking off.

Port Adelaide is just another suburb.
Dont be a defeatist nimby :P
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