News & Discussion: Other Transport Projects

Threads relating to transport, water, etc. within the CBD and Metropolitan area.
Goodsy
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

Post by Goodsy »

SBD wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:33 am
Patrick_27 wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:10 am
I don't understand why an Aldinga extension is being submitted whilst we still have rail electrification waiting on the list?

I also don't understand how the Cross Road level crossing for the Belair and freight line(s) isn't on the list of level crossing removals. This is a no brainer from the perspective of most people living in the inner souther suburbs...
Yes it is, especially if more road freight starts using that route as the middle of the North South Motorway approaches completion. That would seem to be far more important than Womma Road, I'd have thought.
land acquisition would be hideously expensive, and imagine the uproar if their digging damaged any of the mansions down there
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

Post by rubberman »

GoodSmackUp wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:49 am
SBD wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:33 am
Patrick_27 wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:10 am
I don't understand why an Aldinga extension is being submitted whilst we still have rail electrification waiting on the list?

I also don't understand how the Cross Road level crossing for the Belair and freight line(s) isn't on the list of level crossing removals. This is a no brainer from the perspective of most people living in the inner souther suburbs...
Yes it is, especially if more road freight starts using that route as the middle of the North South Motorway approaches completion. That would seem to be far more important than Womma Road, I'd have thought.
land acquisition would be hideously expensive, and imagine the uproar if their digging damaged any of the mansions down there
It would have to be a road underpasss too. A road overpass would elevate those noisy cars way too much and be a visual blight. And as for raising the railway over the road, the sound of multiple Genesee and Wyoming diesel locos putting out 4400 Horsepower each in full roar...music to my ears, but the locals might no see the funny side. They certainly wouldn't be able to hear it. :banana:
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

Post by A-Town »

Patrick_27 wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:10 am
I don't understand why an Aldinga extension is being submitted whilst we still have rail electrification waiting on the list?

I also don't understand how the Cross Road level crossing for the Belair and freight line(s) isn't on the list of level crossing removals. This is a no brainer from the perspective of most people living in the inner souther suburbs...
I'd also like to see the Cross/South Rd level crossing removed. It's a shocker in peak hour and will only get worse once the Tonsley line has been extended to Flinders and there are more services running.
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

Post by SBD »

A-Town wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:07 pm
Patrick_27 wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:10 am
I don't understand why an Aldinga extension is being submitted whilst we still have rail electrification waiting on the list?

I also don't understand how the Cross Road level crossing for the Belair and freight line(s) isn't on the list of level crossing removals. This is a no brainer from the perspective of most people living in the inner souther suburbs...
I'd also like to see the Cross/South Rd level crossing removed. It's a shocker in peak hour and will only get worse once the Tonsley line has been extended to Flinders and there are more services running.
That one is in "the plan" for the North-South Corridor, so will get something done to it eventually. Most documents hint that Emerson Crossing and an upgrade to Gallipoli Underpass will both be done in advance of the main Darlington to Torrens works. Nobody has gone public with a timeline yet.
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

Post by ChillyPhilly »

Tram level crossing removal at Goodwood Road, Goodwood; Marion Road, Plympton Park and Cross Road, Plympton Park. This is a $500 million project with funding from multiple sources.
FWIW, surveyors were out tonight (night of 6 November) at around 10pm at each corner of the intersection of Marion Road and Anzac Highway.
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

Post by SouthAussie94 »

SBD wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:33 am
Patrick_27 wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:10 am
I don't understand why an Aldinga extension is being submitted whilst we still have rail electrification waiting on the list?

I also don't understand how the Cross Road level crossing for the Belair and freight line(s) isn't on the list of level crossing removals. This is a no brainer from the perspective of most people living in the inner souther suburbs...
Yes it is, especially if more road freight starts using that route as the middle of the North South Motorway approaches completion. That would seem to be far more important than Womma Road, I'd have thought.
Maybe it's a case of low hanging fruit?

Womma Rd would (in theory at least) be a relatively simple level crossing to remove. There's enough land around, both in the road and rail corridors that temporary road/tracks could be built while the bridge is built. Land values in the area are also relatively low so any property acquisitions shouldn't be too costly.

Cross Rd on the other hand has a narrow corridor for both the rail and road. Property would very likely need to be acquired to some degree. Property values are quite high in this area so you could expect this to be a significantly higher expense than at Womma Rd.

I do agree through, Cross Rd should definitely be on the cards for removal..
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

Post by Goodsy »

Is there enough room at the Womma station to build a TOD ontop of it? presumably they'll rebuild the station as well, they might as well stack some apartments ontop of it
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

Post by Norman »

GoodSmackUp wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:46 pm
Is there enough room at the Womma station to build a TOD ontop of it? presumably they'll rebuild the station as well, they might as well stack some apartments ontop of it
A TOD at Womma? That's a very out-there suggestion. How high would you propose the apartments to be? Why would Womma be higher in the priority list compared to other stations? How would it be made into an attractive area? People need a reason to live in a smaller apartment, such as surrounding facilities, businesses and communities.

If there is to be a TOD in the area, it should be around Elizabeth Station. Which is kind of happening now at a small scale.
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

Post by Goodsy »

Norman wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:09 pm
GoodSmackUp wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:46 pm
Is there enough room at the Womma station to build a TOD ontop of it? presumably they'll rebuild the station as well, they might as well stack some apartments ontop of it
A TOD at Womma? That's a very out-there suggestion. How high would you propose the apartments to be? Why would Womma be higher in the priority list compared to other stations? How would it be made into an attractive area? People need a reason to live in a smaller apartment, such as surrounding facilities, businesses and communities.

If there is to be a TOD in the area, it should be around Elizabeth Station. Which is kind of happening now at a small scale.
Womma station is right on the Womma Road crossing so if they're looking to remove that level crossing it's either a road overpass or sink the rail line and rebuild the station. They could cut and cover the line from Elizabeth station to Broadmeadows (or remove Broadmeadows entirely) and build ontop of it.

Or go for broke
Trench from Womma Road to Curtis Road (Removing 3 level crossings)
TOD at Womma Station, with the Playford Operation Centre being turned into high density residential
Remove Broadmeadows Station
Move Smithfield Station apprx. 1km south
Build TOD near Munno Para Shopping Centre next to new Smithfield station

Now I think about it some more they should just get rod of Womma and Broadmeadows station in favour of my new Smithfield station
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

Post by SBD »

GoodSmackUp wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:36 pm
Norman wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:09 pm
GoodSmackUp wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:46 pm
Is there enough room at the Womma station to build a TOD ontop of it? presumably they'll rebuild the station as well, they might as well stack some apartments ontop of it
A TOD at Womma? That's a very out-there suggestion. How high would you propose the apartments to be? Why would Womma be higher in the priority list compared to other stations? How would it be made into an attractive area? People need a reason to live in a smaller apartment, such as surrounding facilities, businesses and communities.

If there is to be a TOD in the area, it should be around Elizabeth Station. Which is kind of happening now at a small scale.
Womma station is right on the Womma Road crossing so if they're looking to remove that level crossing it's either a road overpass or sink the rail line and rebuild the station. They could cut and cover the line from Elizabeth station to Broadmeadows (or remove Broadmeadows entirely) and build ontop of it.

Or go for broke
Trench from Womma Road to Curtis Road (Removing 3 level crossings)
TOD at Womma Station, with the Playford Operation Centre being turned into high density residential
Remove Broadmeadows Station
Move Smithfield Station apprx. 1km south
Build TOD near Munno Para Shopping Centre next to new Smithfield station

Now I think about it some more they should just get rod of Womma and Broadmeadows station in favour of my new Smithfield station
I would assume that grade separation at Womma Road would involve digging the road below the railway. The road has a gentle slope so it could be essentially level from the Heytesbury Rd roundabout and not excessively steep on the eastern side before Knighton Road either. The poles and pedestrian refuges suggest that route is not used for oversize loads (they go over the existing bridge on Winterslow Road).

There has been a "plan" (of the airy-fairy thought bubble variety) to develop the land west of Elizabeth station for housing "in the future" for quite a while, accessed from the railway station and extending the southern end of Peachey Road. That would probably include "a TOD" in the current language.

I've also seen 1950s-vintage plans that showed a railway station just north of Curtis Road. I don't know if that was to be in addition to or was replaced by Munno Para station, as it is quite close to Smithfield Station, which is much older and was still a substantial building in the 1950s.
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

Post by Torrens_5022 »

There's no point closing any stations on the Gawler line, you just upgrade key stations and service them more. The long term plan is for a city loop joining the Gawler and Seaford (Aldinga) lines through a underground line through the city, it would open up a lot opportunities. You could catch a train direct from Elizabeth to Flinders in 45min. Adelaide is long and thin and it make sense having a fast, safe and reliable train line linking North to South.
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

Post by Kasey771 »

Torrens_5022 wrote:There's no point closing any stations on the Gawler line, you just upgrade key stations and service them more. The long term plan is for a city loop joining the Gawler and Seaford (Aldinga) lines through a underground line through the city, it would open up a lot opportunities. You could catch a train direct from Elizabeth to Flinders in 45min. Adelaide is long and thin and it make sense having a fast, safe and reliable train line linking North to South.
No point in closing any stations on the Gawler line? I disagree. I think all of our train lines should be subject to an audit to determine the compliance to best practice for distance between stations in order to maximise efficiencies of electric trains...assuming of course the line (and the whole network) gets electrified in my lifetime!


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Big infrastructure investments are usually under-valued and & over-criticized while in the planning stage. It's much easier to envision the here and now costs and inconveniences, and far more difficult to imagine fully the eventual benefits.
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

Post by Torrens_5022 »

Once the city loop is built trains will run more frequently, the Flinders line will be finished the extension to Aldinga built, Gawler line electrified which would mean a high frequency service for the major stops and less for the in between stops. Some stations are too close but the expanding suburb of Eyre will need Womma station, removing it would be pointless. What stations would you close on the Gawler to Seaford line(s)?
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

Post by Goodsy »

Torrens_5022 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:56 pm
Once the city loop is built trains will run more frequently, the Flinders line will be finished the extension to Aldinga built, Gawler line electrified which would mean a high frequency service for the major stops and less for the in between stops. Some stations are too close but the expanding suburb of Eyre will need Womma station, removing it would be pointless. What stations would you close on the Gawler to Seaford line(s)?
Close these on the Gawler line

Tambelin
Kudla
Broadmeadows
Elizabeth South
Nurlutta
Chidda
Parafield Gardens
Greenfields
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Re: News & Discussion: Transport Projects

Post by Torrens_5022 »

Very short sighted closing them, Tambelin is going to be in the middle of housing in the future, Kudla will be the same, Nurlutta depends on what happens to Holdens. Greenfields could close, Chidda could close, the level crossing at Kings Road should go and make Parafield a bus interchange station. Most stations on the Gawler line and spaced far enough apart. You need to remember if you get rid of some stations your just going to create gridlock with people trying to get to the next one.
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