News & Discussion: Trams

[Llessur2002]

Also, those simply wanting to upgrade the OH line for electrified heavy rail just because it is quicker from Bowden to Adelaide forget the many holdups outside the Adelaide rail yard.

To be fair, I'm a regular user of the OH line and I would guess that approximately 1 in 10 of the trains I am on gets held up outside of Adelaide Station. Even when it does it's a really rare occasion for the delay to be longer than 2 minutes.

I'd take this occasional short delay over the excruciatingly slow tram journey between AEC and the City any day. Unfortunately Nathan's 20 minute journey this morning is pretty typical for the AEC-Rundle Mall journey. If a light rail conversion was going to be successful then this really *has* to be reduced down to 10 minutes otherwise the service will be a joke.

And it's not a good enough argument to say that increased service frequency would make up for it. If my door to door journey was going to be 13 minutes longer I know I'd much rather spend that 13 minutes in the fresh air on a tram platform, in a coffee shop, in my house etc than sitting stationary on a tram.

Plus, I suspect that the theoretical increased service frequencies are a long way off. Until all spurs (e.g. West Lakes) are completed then I can't see them running trams at less than 15 minute intervals - which is the same as we have now.

[claybro]

I'd take this occasional short delay over the excruciatingly slow tram journey between AEC and the City any day. Unfortunately Nathan's 20 minute journey this morning is pretty typical for the AEC-Rundle Mall journey. If a light rail conversion was going to be successful then this really *has* to be reduced down to 10 minutes otherwise the service will be a joke.

You are quite right that the operation of the current tram is a joke, and is doing much damage to the case for NW light rail. Long lags at stops even once the doors are closed, (FFS-just shut the doors and take off for Christ sake), poor traffic light sequencing, slow running-even on dedicated corridor- they all provide a poor comparison to heavy rail in its current setup. I think however that the difference in door to door time could be greatly reduced, and become comparable to heavy rail if even the existing system was not run like a toy train set.

[Llessur2002]

I think however that the difference in door to door time could be greatly reduced, and become comparable to heavy rail if even the existing system was not run like a toy train set.

Fully agree. However, it concerns me that none of the plans/proposals that I've seen - whether they're the ones in the Government's 30-year plan, or the 'back of a fag packet' ones from Charles Sturt/Playford have even acknowledged any of the current speed/intersection priority/efficiency issues with the existing tram, or proposed any improvements in these areas. As far as I can remember, neither did that big independent report thingy that was commissioned re the OH light rail conversion - despite it openly acknowledging that journey times would increase as a result of the change.

That's the worry - that the problem isn't recognised and therefore won't be addressed. I mean, how simple would it be to improve tram priority at intersections for the existing Glenelg line? But yet it's never been sorted out. There seems to have been some token changes around the Grenfell Street and Pirie Street intersections with KWS but even then it seems to be complete luck of the draw as to whether a tram gets a green light out of cycle or not. Even if it does it just gets held up at the next intersection anyway.

I love the tram - I genuinely think conversion of the OH line could work if done well. But I really worry that it wouldn't be and we'll just end up with something that's worse than the service we already have.

[claybro]

I love the tram - I genuinely think conversion of the OH line could work if done well. But I really worry that it wouldn't be and we'll just end up with something that's worse than the service we already have.

I fully share your concern, and the Glenelg tram extension has been a big let down as far as running is concerned, and may well have rung the death knell for a flexible frequent integrated light rail system for the Northwest. It actually played into the hands of those who dubbed the Hindmarsh extension "the tram to nowhere" and a big waste of the work done out there so far. Most of the day Hindmarsh to Adelaide on the tram is near empty

[PeFe]

Here is a link to the 2013 discussion paper regarding the north west transport corridor

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct= ... 3164,d.dGo

[OlympusAnt]

The tram tracks haven't been built properly, probably explains the snails pace. Should have just copied the Victorian design.

[ml69]

The tram tracks haven't been built properly, probably explains the snails pace. Should have just copied the Victorian design.

What do you mean havent been built properly? Not properly designed, bad workmanship in the construction process ... or are you speculating? Please elaborate.

[monotonehell]

I've not noticed anyone mention it as yet...

The Australia Day time table changes have eradicated the shuttle trams so now all trams run the full route to Glenelg. With a 5ish minute frequency on peak and a 10 minute day frequency off peak dropping slowly after hours to 15.. 20 minutes.

I'm getting out of the city in the morning much more quickly now.

[jk1237]

The tram tracks haven't been built properly, probably explains the snails pace. Should have just copied the Victorian design.

the snails pace is solely because of the excrutiating amount of traffic lights that give trams the last priority. Its nothing short of pathetic, considering virtually every other city in the world gives priority to light rail at intersections, yet we do the opposite

[Llessur2002]

I've not noticed anyone mention it as yet...

The Australia Day time table changes have eradicated the shuttle trams so now all trams run the full route to Glenelg. With a 5ish minute frequency on peak and a 10 minute day frequency off peak dropping slowly after hours to 15.. 20 minutes.

I'm getting out of the city in the morning much more quickly now.

I hadn't noticed - but then I don't come up from the South anymore.

On a side note, I always wondered why they don't run the one (or is it two?) restored H-Class trams as the city shuttle service (not that it exists anymore apparently). Would be great for tourists....

Or did they try that when the line was first extended?

[monotonehell]

On a side note, I always wondered why they don't run the one (or is it two?) restored H-Class trams as the city shuttle service (not that it exists anymore apparently). Would be great for tourists....

Or did they try that when the line was first extended?

They trialed Sunday beach runs iirc. Not sure what came of that.

[adelaide transport]

They ran the H cars on an hourly timetable on a few Sundays between Glengowrie Tram Depot and Moseley Square Glenelg.It was quite well patronised,but then it was dropped-end of story.

[rev]

I've not noticed anyone mention it as yet...

The Australia Day time table changes have eradicated the shuttle trams so now all trams run the full route to Glenelg. With a 5ish minute frequency on peak and a 10 minute day frequency off peak dropping slowly after hours to 15.. 20 minutes.

I'm getting out of the city in the morning much more quickly now.

I hadn't noticed - but then I don't come up from the South anymore.

On a side note, I always wondered why they don't run the one (or is it two?) restored H-Class trams as the city shuttle service (not that it exists anymore apparently). Would be great for tourists....

Or did they try that when the line was first extended?

There has to be a purpose for tourists.
Make it part of tours along the way or something. But then you'd have to extend the tram line to certain areas. Like east along north tce. Have a stop out the front of the museum/library/unis. Jump off historical tram at this time, same historical tram or another one picks you up at the end of the tour, sort of thing.

[ml69]

Also, those simply wanting to upgrade the OH line for electrified heavy rail just because it is quicker from Bowden to Adelaide forget the many holdups outside the Adelaide rail yard.

To be fair, I'm a regular user of the OH line and I would guess that approximately 1 in 10 of the trains I am on gets held up outside of Adelaide Station. Even when it does it's a really rare occasion for the delay to be longer than 2 minutes.

I'd take this occasional short delay over the excruciatingly slow tram journey between AEC and the City any day. Unfortunately Nathan's 20 minute journey this morning is pretty typical for the AEC-Rundle Mall journey. If a light rail conversion was going to be successful then this really *has* to be reduced down to 10 minutes otherwise the service will be a joke.

I'm in favour of light rail to Outer Harbor along the existing heavy rail corridor, with light rail spur lines to Semaphore, West Lakes and Grange. Hence exactly as the Government proposed 4-5 years ago with the Coast to Coast light rail. It saves commuters from these areas having to change transport mode. Also light rail through the streets of Port Adelaide is a must for urban renewal.

The main problem with an OH light rail line (apart from the slow running issues already discussed) is the lengthy time it takes from AEC to ARS, however this can be alleviated by running the trams from Bowden station under Park Tce along the existing heavy rail line, then connect with North Tce (and City West tram stop) from that little road adjacent to SAMRHI. This would give only slightly slower run time to ARS, and when you factor in about 5 mins disembarking a train and walking to North Tce street level, then the tram option actually offers a slightly faster door-to-door time.

Yes it means that the existing tram line from the CBD to AEC becomes effectively redundant to the OH tram line ... but it would work so much better using the existing heavy rail route as you get the best of both worlds ... fast run time PLUS connectivity to the rest of the CBD along the existing KW Street tram line.

[ml69]

Just a point about the Grange line which I don't think has been made before.

There is a significant opportunity to create a new public square and beach "destination" at Grange if this line is converted to light rail. It should be extended a further 250m (or so) southbound along Military Rd, terminating at Jetty St. This new terminus would be only 150m from the Esplanade and Grange Jetty.

The local council could then convert the existing car park near the jetty into a pedestrian-only public square, similar to (but smaller than) Henley Square. The 150m strip along Jetty St should be rezoned for restaurants/cafes/shops (there are some here already, but zoning should be extended). Such a change would make one of Adelaide's nicest metropolitan beaches at Grange much more accessible to the rest of city (as easy as taking the tram to Glenelg), and create another beachside destination for the city.