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[VIS] Re: Passenger Trains to Mount Barker
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 8:37 pm
by SBD
dbl96 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 2:08 pm
rhino wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 1:10 pm
Considering that Balhannah and Hahndorf are at very similar elevations above sea level, that is a very steep railway from Bridgewater to Hahndorf.
Bridgewater is at approximately 400m above sea level, and Hahndorf is at approximately 350m. The proposed alignment is at a minimum 5000m between the two stations, so at a constant gradient, the slope would only be 1%, which is completely workable.
Of course, this requires that the gradient is constant - which is only possible with a tunnel under Bridgewater East and a substantial viaduct to bring the railway over the Ongkaparinga Valley.
NIMBYs, environmentalists and just about everyone else would object to a high viaduct there!
I'm curious about the gradient of your proposed route from Mitcham to Aldgate, too. Presumably you propose a long tunnel under Crafers and Stirling from somewhere in Brownhill Creek?
[VIS] Re: Passenger Trains to Mount Barker
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 2:02 pm
by ChillyPhilly
This is a handy elevation map viewer. I've zoomed to the area we are discussing:
https://en-au.topographic-map.com/map-w ... 83&zoom=12
[VIS] Re: Passenger Trains to Mount Barker
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:05 pm
by Alyx
The Advertiser wrote:Officials from a Spanish train manufacturer proposing a train trial between the Hills and Adelaide’s CBD would have been “shocked” by the winding nature of the terrain – and that the track’s speed limit was 115km/h, the transport department CEO says.
It comes as department officials say they are working on a business case for “mass transit options to Mount Barker”.
High-speed locomotive manufacturer Talgo is pushing ahead with its trial, asking the Spanish government for more money after the state government agreed to allow it to test its unique tilt trains – but at no cost to the SA taxpayers.
The trial aims to ease traffic congestion and comes amid a transport study for the Adelaide Hills.
It would cost in excess of three million Euro – about AUD$5m, department CEO Jon Whelan told parliament’s Budget and Finance committee on Monday.
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenge ... e5431e2123
[VIS] Re: Passenger Trains to Mount Barker
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2024 6:19 pm
by rev
The way the media reports this stuff and the carry on from the opposition is pathetic and embarrassing.
[VIS] Re: Passenger Trains to Mount Barker
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2024 11:08 pm
by claybro
The transport department CEO thinks the Spanish would be shocked by the winding nature of the track??!! Oh ok, so a foreign company is prepared to ask a foreign government for funds to run a trial in little old SA, and that’s the best our transport boffins can say? Like the Spanish don’t have mountains!! I would have thought the response from our transport people would be … sure, go for it! Let’s see what you come up with. Problem is, once the company proves the concept.., all the BS the various transport departments have been spreading about this line will be shown, and they might actually have to run something that goes faster than 80km/h.
[VIS] Re: Passenger Trains to Mount Barker
Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2024 12:12 am
by Nort
The embarrassment is that we need to look to an overseas corporation and government.
We have a whole bloody continent of resources. Yes Australia has a relatively small population, but with good planning there is no reason we couldn't be preparing for these sort of infrastructure needs ahead of time and building the capability locally.
Pathetic.
[VIS] Re: Passenger Trains to Mount Barker
Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:24 am
by Saltwater
Various posts on this thread have touched on this topic previously, but at a high level, what's with the obsession with heavy rail returning to Mount Barker?
The current and well known issue is the existing track alignment, creating travel times that cannot compete with the freeway.
To make it a fair fight, straightening the track with a 15km tunnel would cost close to $6bn, to service a population in the hills that will be close to 80,000 by 2036 - and disbursed over a large area. Even where the population is more concentrated, how does commuting from Mount Barker work for those living in the new estates, that still have to get into the centre, park (or transfer from a bus), and connect to a train.
Not mentioned as much in the hills transport discussions, following the
Hills Transport Study are the alternative options, including $300 million for a part-side running Bus Rapid Transport, which utilising the existing freeway alignment could compete on travel times, and allow connections to new suburbs without transferring services. Why aren't people discussing these options instead, rather than a binary "rail or nothing" approach?
[VIS] Re: Passenger Trains to Mount Barker
Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2024 2:22 pm
by rev
Saltwater wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:24 am
Various posts on this thread have touched on this topic previously, but at a high level, what's with the obsession with heavy rail returning to Mount Barker?
The current and well known issue is the existing track alignment, creating travel times that cannot compete with the freeway.
To make it a fair fight, straightening the track with a 15km tunnel would cost close to $6bn, to service a population in the hills that will be close to 80,000 by 2036 - and disbursed over a large area. Even where the population is more concentrated, how does commuting from Mount Barker work for those living in the new estates, that still have to get into the centre, park (or transfer from a bus), and connect to a train.
Not mentioned as much in the hills transport discussions, following the
Hills Transport Study are the alternative options, including $300 million for a part-side running Bus Rapid Transport, which utilising the existing freeway alignment could compete on travel times, and allow connections to new suburbs without transferring services. Why aren't people discussing these options instead, rather than a binary "rail or nothing" approach?
This is the issue isn't it?
We say $6 billion for a proper rail connection to an area growing in population that will continue to grow in the future. Too much?
Alternative? A dodgy freeway?
Tens of thousands of more cars on that freeway and associated roads.
So the freeway will need upgrades and expansion potentially? As will those other roads? So we will end up spending billions anyway.
In my mind, spending a few extra billion and ensuring that that train option is more convenient and user friendly then driving, is worth it.
I'm not greeny, but we need to seriously invest more in our public transport and make it a more wide spread and convenient mode of transport in this city.
And that's just from a liveability aspect.
[VIS] Re: Passenger Trains to Mount Barker
Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:51 pm
by Saltwater
I don't disagree on investing in public transport, but if we're spending $6billion on something, surely there are higher priority tickets than a rail tunnel to the hills?
Short term priorities should include a CBD underground loop so we can increase patronage on current rail lines, and extending rail out to Two Wells / Buckland Park.
As it stands spending $6bil on the Hill's predicted 80,000 residents by 2036 places a debt burden of $75k on every resident. Where a $300mil bus rapid transport network would go a long way to achieving the same benefits, at significantly less cost. So much so that BRT is the Infrastructure Australia recommendation - meaning any SA government that wanted to build rail to the hills would be funding it alone.
So again, why are discussions on PT to the hills and Mount Barker always so fixated on a heavy rail line in the short term, rather than debating the merits of other options?
[VIS] Re: Passenger Trains to Mount Barker
Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:21 pm
by ChillyPhilly
$6b on a rail tunnel wouldn't be just to the Hills/Mt Barker - it would be beyond, potentially opening up the whole south-east of SA to viable passenger rail. If we can spend $15b for an unsustainable 10km hole in the ground to benefit the false economy of road freight, then $6b is petty cash for a wealthy economy.
It is now cheaper for people living in Mt Gambier to leave the state and head over to Portland then onto the rest of Victoria from there, than it is to travel through SA.
[VIS] Re: Passenger Trains to Mount Barker
Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:35 pm
by Saltwater
This is my point though - nobody even wants to engage in a debate on the pro's and con's of the various options suggested by the Infrastructure Australia review. Residents of the hills could be making a huge fuss right now about the state of Glen Osmond Road - asking why there isn't tidal flow as suggested by IA, or enhanced bus priority measures (which to be fair, the government has initiated), to improve their journey times to the city. Instead its crickets.
Instead it's just an all-or-nothing "must be heavy rail and we need it now" attitude, throwing the net wider and wider, including to Mount Gambier, to justify the means.
[VIS] Re: Passenger Trains to Mount Barker
Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:21 pm
by Nort
Edit: removed, numbers already posted
[VIS] Re: Passenger Trains to Mount Barker
Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2024 1:08 pm
by Eurostar
In theory a trial could be done asap.
Trial a train service from Mt Lofty Station to Goodwood or temporary platform at Mile End. If at Mile End it could be timed to connect with a metro service or bus shuttle from Mile End to City.
[VIS] Re: Passenger Trains to Mount Barker
Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2024 2:01 pm
by rev
ChillyPhilly wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:21 pm
$6b on a rail tunnel wouldn't be just to the Hills/Mt Barker - it would be beyond, potentially opening up the whole south-east of SA to viable passenger rail. If we can spend $15b for an unsustainable 10km hole in the ground to benefit the false economy of road freight, then $6b is petty cash for a wealthy economy.
It is now cheaper for people living in Mt Gambier to leave the state and head over to Portland then onto the rest of Victoria from there, than it is to travel through SA.
False economy of road freight....how do you get your goods, by magic carpet?
I'm shocked it's cheaper to go an hour from Mt Gambier to Portland then it is to go four-five hours to Adelaide. Who would have thought.
[VIS] Re: Passenger Trains to Mount Barker
Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2024 2:06 pm
by rev
Eurostar wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 1:08 pm
In theory a trial could be done asap.
Trial a train service from Mt Lofty Station to Goodwood or temporary platform at Mile End. If at Mile End it could be timed to connect with a metro service or bus shuttle from Mile End to City.
They don't need to waste time with trials. We know people will use a service, it's built/setup properly.
Build stations where they are needed, and make the service more efficient then using other modes of transport.
Make it convenient and easy.
Unless they plan on keeping the city's and states population stagnant, they need to bite the bullet and spend the money and get it done already. Not just this but many other things.
They've waited how long to do so many infrastructure projects, costs are much higher, and will only keep going up.
They predict Adelaide will be a 2 million pop. city by 2050 don't they? Mt Barker 80,000+.
If traffic congestion is fucked already, and our roads are chaotic, what's it going to be like in 2050?
This shit needs to be done yesterday.