News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

[rev]

Just ban these guys already.

[rubberman]

Just ban these guys already.

Just because you don’t agree? Really? There's a block button. Please use it.

The guy who advocated shooting protesters with live rounds is on pretty shaky moral grounds here.

Given that shooting at protesters with lethal force is likely illegal...

[abc]

Why are boomers so pissed off with subsidies and power bills anyway?

They don't actually pay any taxes because of all that negative gearing and 'losing' money that other people give to them.

They don't buy avocado toast or latte and save lots and lots of money due to their discipline.

They made all the right choices buying their inner city houses for $65,000 dollars.

Few hundred bucks on their power bill shouldn't be an issue.

Maybe they're just blowing up over power bills because they're bored and have nothing else to complain about, such as the impact climate change is going to have on their futures. No point saying anything about a world "you don't actually live in". They've already squeezed Earth for every last drop.

take your Antifa cult workshop talking points elsewhere

nobody wants to hear it

[rev]

Just ban these guys already.

Just because you don’t agree? Really? There's a block button. Please use it.

The guy who advocated shooting protesters with live rounds is on pretty shaky moral grounds here.

Given that shooting at protesters with lethal force is likely illegal...

You prove my point. Completely irrelevant rubbish, always attacking people either directly or indirectly with sly remarks and baiting.

FYI, I advocated police shooting people who attacked them with acid. Throwing acid at police, or anyone, is not protesting. Its criminal.

You guys are all as bad as each other. You all need to grow up, and the fact I'm the one telling you that should make you take a step back and take stock. But you won't, you'll instead double down.

[rubberman]

Just ban these guys already.

Just because you don’t agree? Really? There's a block button. Please use it.

The guy who advocated shooting protesters with live rounds is on pretty shaky moral grounds here.

Given that shooting at protesters with lethal force is likely illegal...

You prove my point. Completely irrelevant rubbish, always attacking people either directly or indirectly with sly remarks and baiting.

FYI, I advocated police shooting people who attacked them with acid. Throwing acid at police, or anyone, is not protesting. Its criminal.

You guys are all as bad as each other. You all need to grow up, and the fact I'm the one telling you that should make you take a step back and take stock. But you won't, you'll instead double down.

Just use the block button. How simple is that?

[rev]

I think it should be clear to the sites staff judging by the responses that these guys have no intention of stopping their disruptive behaviour and will continue it as long as its allowed.

[rubberman]

I think it should be clear to the sites staff judging by the responses that these guys have no intention of stopping their disruptive behaviour and will continue it as long as its allowed.

Who is being disrupted?

You are just creating a fuss for no reason.

You don’t like it, just use the block button.

[mattblack]

Plans advanced for Australia’s largest battery, with eight times more storage than current biggest

BATTERY STORAGE
Neoen Australia has advanced plans for what would be the biggest battery project in any of Australia’s main grids – a 3,600 megawatt hour (MWh) proposal that would have eight times more storage than the current holder of the biggest battery title.

The project is being proposed at Goyder North, along with an adjoining 1,000 megawatt (MW) wind project, north of Burra in South Australia.

It is separate to the neighbouring Goyder South project, which could combine 1,200 MW of wind, 600 MW of solar and 900 MW, 1800 MWh of battery storage, and where a 412 MW first wind stage is already being built.

The scale of battery storage projects in Australia is growing rapidly. The current titleholder of the biggest fully commissioned battery in the country is the 300 MW, 450 MWh Victoria Big battery near Geelong, which was also built by Neoen.

That project will soon be overtaken – first by the 850 MW, 1680 MWh Waratah Super Battery in NSW, which will have the biggest connection point of any other generator or storage unit in the country when complete – and then by a series of three 2,000 MWh batteries that are also under construction.

The biggest of these is the 560 MW, 2,240 MWh Collie battery – yet another project being built by Neoen – although there are a number of new pretenders to the throne, should they be built, including a newly unveiled 2,500 MWh battery project in Portland by Pacific Green, and a 2,600 MWh battery in Kemmerton, Western Australia, by Trina Solar.

The Goyder North project will trump the lot. Of course, a lot could happen between now and the years that it will take to bring the project to fruition, including on technology advances and market conditions.

But the sweet spot being targeted now by Neoen is the four-hour storage market, and in South Australia that is needed because of the growing impact of rooftop solar – already producing more than state demand at times – and because the state has a target of reached 100 per cent net renewables by 2030.

That will require a lot of renewable output to be either exported, including via the new transmission line to NSW, or stored – or soaked up by new industries such as green hydrogen and green iron and steel projects.

Neoen says the Goyder region has some of the best wind and solar resources in Australia, and described the overall Goyder Renewable Zone as one of the most ambitious renewable energy developments proposed in the country.

“It is ideally located to complement Project EnergyConnect, a large interconnector to New South Wales currently under
construction by ElectraNet and TransGrid and will make a major contribution to servicing the substantial
increase in South Australian energy demand forecast by ElectraNet,” it says in its planning

” In addition to providing low-cost renewable energy, the addition of batteries to the facility will increase stability in the grid as well as reducing volatility and reliance on gas generation within the energy market.”

Neoen says the project would be built on privately owned land that is “largely agricultural including marginal grazing for sheep”, and it contemplates up to 135 wind turbines, with a maximum hub height of 160m, a maximum blade length of 90m, and an overall maximum height (tip height) of 240m.

“Despite this significant deployment of low-cost energy production, South Australians have not seen the
benefits of this transition flow through in the form of reduced residential power bills,” the company notes.

“This is largely due to the state’s reliance on gas generation to provide system stability services and fill in gaps in generation when the renewable generation fleet is not generating.

“The addition of more renewable generation in combination with large scale batteries will reduce the amount of time that gas generators operate, providing the lowest cost firm energy.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/plans-advan ... t-biggest/

[abc]

wind turbines and solar panels wont cut it for critical infrastructure

Amazon follows Google in taking the nuclear option to power data centres

https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/ ... ta-centres

[mattblack]

wind turbines and solar panels wont cut it for critical infrastructure

Amazon follows Google in taking the nuclear option to power data centres

https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/ ... ta-centres

So big business is funding development of smaller nuclear reactors. Might be wrong, but no big business here has jumped on offering hundreds of millions. Here as far as I can gather, from the lack of info released, its government owned and built. More actual business case cost analysis would be helpful instead arguments with no local context.

Anyhow, more nuclear around the world good for us as we have most of it in the ground ready to sell. Refining our ore to higher grades would also increase the economic benefits.

[rubberman]

wind turbines and solar panels wont cut it for critical infrastructure

Amazon follows Google in taking the nuclear option to power data centres

https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/ ... ta-centres

So big business is funding development of smaller nuclear reactors. Might be wrong, but no big business here has jumped on offering hundreds of millions. Here as far as I can gather, from the lack of info released, its government owned and built. More actual business case cost analysis would be helpful instead arguments with no local context.

Anyhow, more nuclear around the world good for us as we have most of it in the ground ready to sell. Refining our ore to higher grades would also increase the economic benefits.

The article is interesting, and if by 2039 as the article clearly states, 5MW small modular reactors are in production, there's certainly a place for them if the price is right.

However, it's not clear how this is relevant to Australia's imminent problem that by 2028 we will have decommissioned 5,000MW of coal generation capacity. There's a gap of 11 years there.

By 2037, we will have decommissioned 10,000MW total of coal generation capacity. A further gap of 2 years.

It is not immediately clear to me how these presently non-existent small modular reactors have any bearing on our need to find 5,000MW pronto. And another 5,000MW by 2037.

Further, by simple arithmetic, if you want 10,000MW worth of 5MW generators, you need 2,000 of them. That's going to take up a lot of space, folks.

Apart from that, even if they do manage to have the first production models up by 2039, as mentioned, it's a stretch to think that they will build 2,000 in the first year or so. Add to that, there's likely to be a queue of US and other countries lined up to buy. If we got 100 per year, it'd be a miracle.

So. TL;DR Interesting, but way too late to solve Australia's imminent power crunch as coal plants fall over.

[rev]

So big business is funding development of smaller nuclear reactors. Might be wrong, but no big business here has jumped on offering hundreds of millions. Here as far as I can gather, from the lack of info released, its government owned and built. More actual business case cost analysis would be helpful instead arguments with no local context.

Anyhow, more nuclear around the world good for us as we have most of it in the ground ready to sell. Refining our ore to higher grades would also increase the economic benefits.

They need a shit tonne of power because they're going to be going hammer and tong in the AI space to beat China. Most people don't realise how power hungry the AI stuff is. It's one of Trumps election promises over there in fact.

These are global corporations investing in it for them selves, quite different to tax payer dollars being spent. Definitely a good thing for the technology that these big corporations are investing in it, they're beholden to their shareholders and there is accountability unlike with governments. If it pans out well, I think a lot of the anti-nuclear arguments here in Australia will be quashed particularly on the feasibility side.
The Coalition should definitely be looking at this development, Amazon etc wouldn't be pouring a tonne of money into something if it wasn't economically viable for them. Since our political scene is dominated by ideologies instead of reality and common sense, it might help progress things here in a positive direction even if nuclear isn't taken up here in the near future.

Having said that though, Amazon is valued at almost $2 trillion USD, Google $2.9 trillion, Microsoft $3.1 trillion. These companies are bigger then our national GDP.

[rev]

More power towers damaged than in 2016 statewide blackout

The storm that ravaged South Australia on Thursday night knocked out more transmission towers than during the 2016 blackout and left some Mid North towns looking for temporary supply.

Michael McGuire and Dylan Hogarth
2 min read
October 18, 2024 - 7:25PM

‘It’s a f***ing tornado’: Sandstorm whips Outback as storms lash SA

More towers were damaged during the wild storm that struck South Australia on Thursday than in the blackout that plunged the state into darkness in 2016.

The destruction of towers in the state’s north also means SA Power Networks are installing temporary diesel generators at Quorn, Leigh Creek and Hawker, while BHP is powering Roxby Downs until transmission is restored.

A spokesperson for transmission company ElectraNet said 29 towers had been damaged during the story, over three different high-voltage lines. It is believed 22 towers were damaged during the 2016 blackout.

“ElectraNet is in the process of completing inspections in the region but so far it has been revealed four towers have been damaged on the Davenport to Pimba 132kV line,’’ the spokesperson said.

“Significant damage has also occurred on the Davenport to Leigh Creek South 132kV line with 19 towers down. A further six 132kV Stobie poles have been damaged on the Brinkworth to Bungama line.”

The spokesperson said crews were “working towards restoring power as soon as possible’’ but could not put a time frame on when power would be restored.

A spokesperson for SA Power Networks asked residents of Quorn, Hawker and Leigh Creek to turn off the main solar isolator switch on their systems while the temporary generators were in use.

“We are unable to operate the generators with solar in the system,’’ the spokesperson said.

The towers damaged on the Pimba line forced BHP to suspend some operations at its giant Olympic Dam mine.

“We have paused the majority of our underground mining and surface processing operations,’’ the spokesperson said. “Back-up generation is providing power to Roxby Downs township, along with critical on-site infrastructure. Business continuity plans are in place.’’

BHP said it was unable to provide a time frame for work to start again, but there has been speculation the miner could be out of action for up to a week.

The storm rolled in on Thursday and strong winds hit much of the state with gusts of up to 130km/h recorded at Port Pirie and Roxby Downs.The Bureau of Meteorology initially reported 130,000 strikes but SA Power Networks later revised

that total, saying it had recorded almost 250,000 lightning strikes, with a peak of 400 strikes a minute during the worst of the storm.

At 9.30 Friday, SA Power networks said 39,000 customers had lost power in the previous 24 hours. By 5pm, there were still 2783 customers without power, mostly in the Mid North and the South East.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/subscrib ... nt-1-SCORE

More damage done to transmission towers then the storm that blacked out the whole state, yet we didn't have the same result this time.
400 lightning strikes a minute is insane.

[rubberman]

The other positive thing about these small modular reactors is that battery technology is now good enough to make them practical.

Larger, grid scale, reactors have a huge problem in that they need to run 24/7 to be economic. When prices are already zero or negative during the day, how could a nuclear reactor ever be economic? However, a smaller reactor, coupled to batteries, can run 24/7 charging those batteries, choosing not to discharge during the day when prices are low, and discharge at night when prices are higher.

Now, by 2039, batteries should not only be more efficient and cheaper, there should be more of them round, making it easy for smr investors to find battery owners to work with.

I can certainly see a place for these 5MW smrs in smaller remote towns. Certainly, they are right sized for places like Alice Springs or Mt Gambier and smaller. We have a lot of those smaller towns in Australia which are currently not that economic to supply power to.

Still, 2039 is a way off, and we have some immediate problems with grid scale coal plants coming off line. These smrs are interesting, but not relevant to those immediate problems.

[SBD]

The other positive thing about these small modular reactors is that battery technology is now good enough to make them practical.

Larger, grid scale, reactors have a huge problem in that they need to run 24/7 to be economic. When prices are already zero or negative during the day, how could a nuclear reactor ever be economic? However, a smaller reactor, coupled to batteries, can run 24/7 charging those batteries, choosing not to discharge during the day when prices are low, and discharge at night when prices are higher.

Now, by 2039, batteries should not only be more efficient and cheaper, there should be more of them round, making it easy for smr investors to find battery owners to work with.

I can certainly see a place for these 5MW smrs in smaller remote towns. Certainly, they are right sized for places like Alice Springs or Mt Gambier and smaller. We have a lot of those smaller towns in Australia which are currently not that economic to supply power to.

Still, 2039 is a way off, and we have some immediate problems with grid scale coal plants coming off line. These smrs are interesting, but not relevant to those immediate problems.

A 5MW SMR produces less power than a modern wind turbine. Given that a town's load varies by time of day and time of year, the same kind of problems but in the other direction would arise from a constant 5MW output as from a variable output wind turbine. Perhaps they will each come with a small hydrogen electrolyser to provide fuel for mobile consumers (cars/trucks/tractors) at times when they are generating excess power.