Sensational-Adelaide.com

ChillyPhilly wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:25 am

Premier Daniel Andrews announced the decision at a snap media briefing on Tuesday morning.

“Last year when the Commonwealth games authorities approached us and needed someone to step into host the 2026 Commonwealth Games, as a state we were happy to help out but, of course, not at any price and only if there was lasting benefit for Victorian communities and benefit for the whole state,” he said.

“What’s become clear is that the cost of hosting these games in 2026 is not the $2.6 billion which was budgeted and allocated and is sitting, the vast, vast majority of which has not been spent.

“It is not $2.6 billion, it is in fact at least $6 billion and could be as high as $7 billion and … I think it could be more than that.”

https://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/2023/0 ... a&lr_hash=

Would be interested to see where that $7 billion Kouts mentions would be spent.

I think we've missed an opportunity here by ruling it out without speaking to the Commonwealth Games people and exploring if SA could step in to host the games..."save the 2026 games"...using largely the existing venues we have with some minor upgrades and/or throwing up some temporary venues. Even if it was a scaled back version, or perhaps utilizing venues in other cities as well in a modified version of the games, perhaps extending it out a few days or so. Or even push it out to 2027, it's not like major sporting events weren't pushed out or altered during COVID for example.
There'd already be a small army of people in Victoria working on the 2026 games, could have brought them over here to assist.

We already have most of the required facilities, so what do we lack and how much would it cost to build them?

rev wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2023 6:24 pm

ChillyPhilly wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:25 am

Premier Daniel Andrews announced the decision at a snap media briefing on Tuesday morning.

“Last year when the Commonwealth games authorities approached us and needed someone to step into host the 2026 Commonwealth Games, as a state we were happy to help out but, of course, not at any price and only if there was lasting benefit for Victorian communities and benefit for the whole state,” he said.

“What’s become clear is that the cost of hosting these games in 2026 is not the $2.6 billion which was budgeted and allocated and is sitting, the vast, vast majority of which has not been spent.

“It is not $2.6 billion, it is in fact at least $6 billion and could be as high as $7 billion and … I think it could be more than that.”

https://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/2023/0 ... a&lr_hash=

Would be interested to see where that $7 billion Kouts mentions would be spent.

I think we've missed an opportunity here by ruling it out without speaking to the Commonwealth Games people and exploring if SA could step in to host the games..."save the 2026 games"...using largely the existing venues we have with some minor upgrades and/or throwing up some temporary venues. Even if it was a scaled back version, or perhaps utilizing venues in other cities as well in a modified version of the games, perhaps extending it out a few days or so. Or even push it out to 2027, it's not like major sporting events weren't pushed out or altered during COVID for example.
There'd already be a small army of people in Victoria working on the 2026 games, could have brought them over here to assist.

Agreed. As the Comm Games boss said yesterday, $7b wasn't the real figure, that was a grossly exaggerated amount by a politician trying to save face.

A scaled-back games, utilising our existing facilities and seeking equal-funding from the Feds could have been a very good outcome for the state.

A-Town wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:21 am

rev wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2023 6:24 pm

ChillyPhilly wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:25 am

https://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/2023/0 ... a&lr_hash=

Would be interested to see where that $7 billion Kouts mentions would be spent.

I think we've missed an opportunity here by ruling it out without speaking to the Commonwealth Games people and exploring if SA could step in to host the games..."save the 2026 games"...using largely the existing venues we have with some minor upgrades and/or throwing up some temporary venues. Even if it was a scaled back version, or perhaps utilizing venues in other cities as well in a modified version of the games, perhaps extending it out a few days or so. Or even push it out to 2027, it's not like major sporting events weren't pushed out or altered during COVID for example.
There'd already be a small army of people in Victoria working on the 2026 games, could have brought them over here to assist.

Agreed. As the Comm Games boss said yesterday, $7b wasn't the real figure, that was a grossly exaggerated amount by a politician trying to save face.

A scaled-back games, utilising our existing facilities and seeking equal-funding from the Feds could have been a very good outcome for the state.

No it wouldn’t. The modelling done by Deloitte predicted a long term economic benefit of $380million to $1.2 billion, but would cost up to $3.5 billion. Both Liberal and Labor Governments have rejected it for this reason - the cost dwarfs the benefits. There’s also no guarantee the Federal Government would provide said equal funding.

gnrc_louis wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:52 am

A-Town wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:21 am

rev wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2023 6:24 pm

Would be interested to see where that $7 billion Kouts mentions would be spent.

I think we've missed an opportunity here by ruling it out without speaking to the Commonwealth Games people and exploring if SA could step in to host the games..."save the 2026 games"...using largely the existing venues we have with some minor upgrades and/or throwing up some temporary venues. Even if it was a scaled back version, or perhaps utilizing venues in other cities as well in a modified version of the games, perhaps extending it out a few days or so. Or even push it out to 2027, it's not like major sporting events weren't pushed out or altered during COVID for example.
There'd already be a small army of people in Victoria working on the 2026 games, could have brought them over here to assist.

Agreed. As the Comm Games boss said yesterday, $7b wasn't the real figure, that was a grossly exaggerated amount by a politician trying to save face.

A scaled-back games, utilising our existing facilities and seeking equal-funding from the Feds could have been a very good outcome for the state.

No it wouldn’t. The modelling done by Deloitte predicted a long term economic benefit of $380million to $1.2 billion, but would cost up to $3.5 billion. Both Liberal and Labor Governments have rejected it for this reason - the cost dwarfs the benefits. There’s also no guarantee the Federal Government would provide said equal funding.

• What's the economic value of being able to say "we can do it too" instead of just looking over the border and wishing we were as good as them?
• Is there a stimulus value in building an athlete village then rent/selling it as affordable housing compared to the current program of affordable and public housing?
• If our current "tired" venues get a spruce up to look nice on TV, then everyone benefits indirectly
• I doubt the international television and news exposure can be accurately valued, even if people take a few years to schedule their trip. Tourists go to places they have heard of, even if they don't remember why they'd heard of it in the first place.
• The airport gets some practice at handling a larger number of international flights - maybe it does some upgrades that aren't on the public purse, and maybe the airlines discover they'd like to run more flights here afterwards.

There seem to be a range of benefits that are difficult to put a dollar value on, and difficult to forecast, so if someone wants to say "no" it's easy to value them at $0.

SBD wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:48 pm

gnrc_louis wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:52 am

A-Town wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:21 am

Agreed. As the Comm Games boss said yesterday, $7b wasn't the real figure, that was a grossly exaggerated amount by a politician trying to save face.

A scaled-back games, utilising our existing facilities and seeking equal-funding from the Feds could have been a very good outcome for the state.

No it wouldn’t. The modelling done by Deloitte predicted a long term economic benefit of $380million to $1.2 billion, but would cost up to $3.5 billion. Both Liberal and Labor Governments have rejected it for this reason - the cost dwarfs the benefits. There’s also no guarantee the Federal Government would provide said equal funding.

• What's the economic value of being able to say "we can do it too" instead of just looking over the border and wishing we were as good as them?
• Is there a stimulus value in building an athlete village then rent/selling it as affordable housing compared to the current program of affordable and public housing?
• If our current "tired" venues get a spruce up to look nice on TV, then everyone benefits indirectly
• I doubt the international television and news exposure can be accurately valued, even if people take a few years to schedule their trip. Tourists go to places they have heard of, even if they don't remember why they'd heard of it in the first place.
• The airport gets some practice at handling a larger number of international flights - maybe it does some upgrades that aren't on the public purse, and maybe the airlines discover they'd like to run more flights here afterwards.

There seem to be a range of benefits that are difficult to put a dollar value on, and difficult to forecast, so if someone wants to say "no" it's easy to value them at $0.

I’m sure similar questions were factored into the costing analysis. Some of those things are purely “vibes” and spending such big money on them is hard to justify for a small state with a limited budget, when there’s much more urgent things to spend billions of dollars on.

gnrc_louis wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:52 pm

SBD wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:48 pm

gnrc_louis wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:52 am

No it wouldn’t. The modelling done by Deloitte predicted a long term economic benefit of $380million to $1.2 billion, but would cost up to $3.5 billion. Both Liberal and Labor Governments have rejected it for this reason - the cost dwarfs the benefits. There’s also no guarantee the Federal Government would provide said equal funding.

• What's the economic value of being able to say "we can do it too" instead of just looking over the border and wishing we were as good as them?
• Is there a stimulus value in building an athlete village then rent/selling it as affordable housing compared to the current program of affordable and public housing?
• If our current "tired" venues get a spruce up to look nice on TV, then everyone benefits indirectly
• I doubt the international television and news exposure can be accurately valued, even if people take a few years to schedule their trip. Tourists go to places they have heard of, even if they don't remember why they'd heard of it in the first place.
• The airport gets some practice at handling a larger number of international flights - maybe it does some upgrades that aren't on the public purse, and maybe the airlines discover they'd like to run more flights here afterwards.

There seem to be a range of benefits that are difficult to put a dollar value on, and difficult to forecast, so if someone wants to say "no" it's easy to value them at $0.

I’m sure similar questions were factored into the costing analysis. Some of those things are purely “vibes” and spending such big money on them is hard to justify for a small state with a limited budget, when there’s much more urgent things to spend billions of dollars on.

Yes, they are "only vibes" - but it's the vibes that make people want to live here and be proud to live here, and want to visit here.

A big event like that could result in in a reduction in the "brain drain", just by more people saying they like to be here, instead of "it's only a small state with a limited budget". We will never fix that if we always give up before we try.

gnrc_louis wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:52 am

A-Town wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:21 am

rev wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 18, 2023 6:24 pm

Would be interested to see where that $7 billion Kouts mentions would be spent.

I think we've missed an opportunity here by ruling it out without speaking to the Commonwealth Games people and exploring if SA could step in to host the games..."save the 2026 games"...using largely the existing venues we have with some minor upgrades and/or throwing up some temporary venues. Even if it was a scaled back version, or perhaps utilizing venues in other cities as well in a modified version of the games, perhaps extending it out a few days or so. Or even push it out to 2027, it's not like major sporting events weren't pushed out or altered during COVID for example.
There'd already be a small army of people in Victoria working on the 2026 games, could have brought them over here to assist.

Agreed. As the Comm Games boss said yesterday, $7b wasn't the real figure, that was a grossly exaggerated amount by a politician trying to save face.

A scaled-back games, utilising our existing facilities and seeking equal-funding from the Feds could have been a very good outcome for the state.

No it wouldn’t. The modelling done by Deloitte predicted a long term economic benefit of $380million to $1.2 billion, but would cost up to $3.5 billion. Both Liberal and Labor Governments have rejected it for this reason - the cost dwarfs the benefits. There’s also no guarantee the Federal Government would provide said equal funding.

That $3.5 billion though was for a full scale bid though.
Would it really cost that much for a scaled back games without as much being put into new/renovated venues?

I mean, if we think about it from a benefit pov, how would we not be benefiting for many years to come by building athletes accommodation that could then be repurpose for low income housing? We're in the midst of a huge housing crisis in this country.

If you want to create events that attract international attention you can do a LOT with that sort of money.

A Commonwealth Games in Adelaide wouldn't cost $7b.

Or even $2.5b for that matter. (The original.quoted price).

We could easily do it for under $1.5b (the cost of Birmingham Games).

We already have Adelaide Oval for athletics and field sports.

Hindmarsh Stadium for soccer and rugby.

The Velodrome precinct for cycling and hockey.

The Entertainment Centre for netball, badminton, volleyball and basketball events.

The Marion Aquatic Centre for swimming and diving.

Glenelg Beach for Beach Volleyball.

Long distance cycling and marathons we just simply adopt whatever practice is in place for the Tour Down Under.

The Convention Centre could host the gymanstics, table tennis, boxing, judo, weightlifting and wrestling.

West Lakes to host the rowing.

I'm sure there's a few more sports I've missed.

All that's really needed technically is an athletes village, that private developers and investors would contribute to as it can just be converted to housing afterwards.

We've got most of the stuff in place already? I can't see what the big cost is?

[Shuz] wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 5:21 pm

A Commonwealth Games in Adelaide wouldn't cost $7b.

Or even $2.5b for that matter. (The original.quoted price).

We could easily do it for under $1.5b (the cost of Birmingham Games).

We already have Adelaide Oval for athletics and field sports.

Hindmarsh Stadium for soccer and rugby.

The Velodrome precinct for cycling and hockey.

The Entertainment Centre for netball, badminton, volleyball and basketball events.

The Marion Aquatic Centre for swimming and diving.

Glenelg Beach for Beach Volleyball.

Long distance cycling and marathons we just simply adopt whatever practice is in place for the Tour Down Under.

The Convention Centre could host the gymanstics, table tennis, boxing, judo, weightlifting and wrestling.

West Lakes to host the rowing.

I'm sure there's a few more sports I've missed.

All that's really needed technically is an athletes village, that private developers and investors would contribute to as it can just be converted to housing afterwards.

We've got most of the stuff in place already? I can't see what the big cost is?

Exactly.
At most we would spruce up the existing venues.

And given what's happened with Victoria, it could be spread out to include other cities as well. Why not have a games in Adelaide-Sydney-Hobart-Brisbane?
Some events could be held in each city.
We have major soccer tournaments of global proportions in the Euro and World Cup held across multiple countries, but we couldn't hold a Com Games across a few Australian states even though Sydney 2000 had events held in other cities like Adelaide?

Very short sighted but this is South Australia.

I wonder why our state government has run with the $7 billion figure their Labor mate in Melbourne has claimed, apparently the figure is grossly exagerated.

rev wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 6:28 pm

[Shuz] wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 5:21 pm

A Commonwealth Games in Adelaide wouldn't cost $7b.

Or even $2.5b for that matter. (The original.quoted price).

We could easily do it for under $1.5b (the cost of Birmingham Games).

We already have Adelaide Oval for athletics and field sports.

Hindmarsh Stadium for soccer and rugby.

The Velodrome precinct for cycling and hockey.

The Entertainment Centre for netball, badminton, volleyball and basketball events.

The Marion Aquatic Centre for swimming and diving.

Glenelg Beach for Beach Volleyball.

Long distance cycling and marathons we just simply adopt whatever practice is in place for the Tour Down Under.

The Convention Centre could host the gymanstics, table tennis, boxing, judo, weightlifting and wrestling.

West Lakes to host the rowing.

I'm sure there's a few more sports I've missed.

All that's really needed technically is an athletes village, that private developers and investors would contribute to as it can just be converted to housing afterwards.

We've got most of the stuff in place already? I can't see what the big cost is?

Exactly.
At most we would spruce up the existing venues.

And given what's happened with Victoria, it could be spread out to include other cities as well. Why not have a games in Adelaide-Sydney-Hobart-Brisbane?
Some events could be held in each city.
We have major soccer tournaments of global proportions in the Euro and World Cup held across multiple countries, but we couldn't hold a Com Games across a few Australian states even though Sydney 2000 had events held in other cities like Adelaide?

Very short sighted but this is South Australia.

I wonder why our state government has run with the $7 billion figure their Labor mate in Melbourne has claimed, apparently the figure is grossly exagerated.

Neither Brisbane or Sydney are interested - they’ve said so expressly. It’s a second rate sporting event that’s been estimated to be about 11 per cent as competitive as the Olympic Games. Even formerly smaller competitions like the Asian Games have outgrown it. Australia would be better off trying to enter those - like they’ve done with the football, than spending billions on an antiquated and increasingly irrelevant Commonwealth Games. This State Government - like the last one, have looked at the economic modelling and decided the costs don’t outweigh the benefits

Yeah. This is one of the situations where I very much trust the SA state government (either Labor or Liberal) to have made a rational decision based on the reports and numbers put in front of them.

Any premier would love to be front and center at opening an international event like that. But if the numbers don't add up it could equally as well backfire.

gnrc_louis wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 7:43 pm

rev wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 6:28 pm

[Shuz] wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 5:21 pm

A Commonwealth Games in Adelaide wouldn't cost $7b.

Or even $2.5b for that matter. (The original.quoted price).

We could easily do it for under $1.5b (the cost of Birmingham Games).

We already have Adelaide Oval for athletics and field sports.

Hindmarsh Stadium for soccer and rugby.

The Velodrome precinct for cycling and hockey.

The Entertainment Centre for netball, badminton, volleyball and basketball events.

The Marion Aquatic Centre for swimming and diving.

Glenelg Beach for Beach Volleyball.

Long distance cycling and marathons we just simply adopt whatever practice is in place for the Tour Down Under.

The Convention Centre could host the gymanstics, table tennis, boxing, judo, weightlifting and wrestling.

West Lakes to host the rowing.

I'm sure there's a few more sports I've missed.

All that's really needed technically is an athletes village, that private developers and investors would contribute to as it can just be converted to housing afterwards.

We've got most of the stuff in place already? I can't see what the big cost is?

Exactly.
At most we would spruce up the existing venues.

And given what's happened with Victoria, it could be spread out to include other cities as well. Why not have a games in Adelaide-Sydney-Hobart-Brisbane?
Some events could be held in each city.
We have major soccer tournaments of global proportions in the Euro and World Cup held across multiple countries, but we couldn't hold a Com Games across a few Australian states even though Sydney 2000 had events held in other cities like Adelaide?

Very short sighted but this is South Australia.

I wonder why our state government has run with the $7 billion figure their Labor mate in Melbourne has claimed, apparently the figure is grossly exagerated.

Neither Brisbane or Sydney are interested - they’ve said so expressly. It’s a second rate sporting event that’s been estimated to be about 11 per cent as competitive as the Olympic Games. Even formerly smaller competitions like the Asian Games have outgrown it. Australia would be better off trying to enter those - like they’ve done with the football, than spending billions on an antiquated and increasingly irrelevant Commonwealth Games. This State Government - like the last one, have looked at the economic modelling and decided the costs don’t outweigh the benefits

Have we seen those documents?
From memory they didn't come to the conclusion it would cost $7 billion.
Seems to be a number floated by the Dan Andrews Labor government, the Commonwealth Games committee certainly doesn't agree.

Each individual state may have rejected taking it on from Victoria sure.
What's been suggested here by Shuz and my self is not just taking it on, it is scaling it back, given the last minute nature of it all.
Or even hosting it across multiple cities. These are not two options or ideas that have been mentioned by state governments as having been considered (and rejected).

If the Commonwealth Games are not relevant as a large, costly multi-sport event across two weeks held every few years, then perhaps the idea of scaling it back has merit?

Athletes need to compete, for many it forms part of their preparations for the Olympics. This isn't, or shouldn't just be about the money.

rev wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 20, 2023 1:32 pm

gnrc_louis wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 7:43 pm

rev wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 19, 2023 6:28 pm

Exactly.
At most we would spruce up the existing venues.

And given what's happened with Victoria, it could be spread out to include other cities as well. Why not have a games in Adelaide-Sydney-Hobart-Brisbane?
Some events could be held in each city.
We have major soccer tournaments of global proportions in the Euro and World Cup held across multiple countries, but we couldn't hold a Com Games across a few Australian states even though Sydney 2000 had events held in other cities like Adelaide?

Very short sighted but this is South Australia.

I wonder why our state government has run with the $7 billion figure their Labor mate in Melbourne has claimed, apparently the figure is grossly exagerated.

Neither Brisbane or Sydney are interested - they’ve said so expressly. It’s a second rate sporting event that’s been estimated to be about 11 per cent as competitive as the Olympic Games. Even formerly smaller competitions like the Asian Games have outgrown it. Australia would be better off trying to enter those - like they’ve done with the football, than spending billions on an antiquated and increasingly irrelevant Commonwealth Games. This State Government - like the last one, have looked at the economic modelling and decided the costs don’t outweigh the benefits

Have we seen those documents?
From memory they didn't come to the conclusion it would cost $7 billion.
Seems to be a number floated by the Dan Andrews Labor government, the Commonwealth Games committee certainly doesn't agree.

Each individual state may have rejected taking it on from Victoria sure.
What's been suggested here by Shuz and my self is not just taking it on, it is scaling it back, given the last minute nature of it all.
Or even hosting it across multiple cities. These are not two options or ideas that have been mentioned by state governments as having been considered (and rejected).

If the Commonwealth Games are not relevant as a large, costly multi-sport event across two weeks held every few years, then perhaps the idea of scaling it back has merit?

Athletes need to compete, for many it forms part of their preparations for the Olympics. This isn't, or shouldn't just be about the money.

I don't feel inclined to want to share with Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane. Dan Andrews has apparently promised regional Victoria will still get the infrastructure, so perhaps we could include Mildura since it's closer to Adelaide anyway. If we do, we'd also need to include a few SA regional cities - Mount Gambier, Port Lincoln or Whyalla, somewhere in the mid-north (Clare or Port Pirie?), Murray Bridge for rowing (new centre less than five years old)?

There seem to be two main considerations for a venue: 1) "world standard" playing surface/ground/pool/whatever and a large-enough (potentially temporary) stadium around it for spectators. I imagine there are good lawn bowls greens in regional SA, as long as at least one has enough space for a temporary grandstand full of spectators, plus food/drink trucks and accommodation within a reasonable distance. Other outdoor sports could be similar.

I see both an immediate tourism bump, but more important is the elevated profile amongst people who aren't even thinking of (South) Australia as a holiday destination yet, which might not yield individually identifiable results but could raise the inbound tourism over the next decade or more.