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[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2024 11:38 am
by rev
[Shuz] wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 9:40 am
A smart forward thinking government would plan ahead and repurpose them for the following projects which will also require tunnelling;
- Underground CBD Rail
- Mount Barker Rail
- East West Link
Unfortunately we're in short supply of smart forward thinking politicians.
Apparently they can't be used for rail tunnels due to sizes according to someone else who posted earlier in the thread.
But it would be good for a change for a South Australian state government to get ahead of things, before they become a major problem, and get infrastructure built.
If they want a city of 2.2million people by 2050, they need to start planning and building pretty soon. Taking into consideration how slow they do things in SA, especially if there's a change in government.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2024 11:40 am
by mattblack
[Shuz] wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 11:20 am
mattblack wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 10:07 am
Love to see the R1 ring road and short south added to that list.
Not sure how long these things last. Be boring continuously for 20+ yrs which would be fun.
Short South / East West Link are the same thing.
Thought u meant east west link through cbd.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:31 pm
by [Shuz]
RE: Rail.
In the case of Mount Barker rail tunnel, forward thinking would plan for 3 or more tracks, not just the default two - one for frieght, two for passenger. A large "road" TBM repurposed would accommodate for this size.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2024 3:14 pm
by SBD
[Shuz] wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 1:31 pm
RE: Rail.
In the case of Mount Barker rail tunnel, forward thinking would plan for 3 or more tracks, not just the default two - one for frieght, two for passenger. A large "road" TBM repurposed would accommodate for this size.
These TBMs are designed for the Torrens to Darlington project, which is likely digging in silt from the floodplains. I don’t know how much would be compatible to repurpose for hard rock drilling through the Adelaide Hills for Short South or a tunnel past Mount Barker. Short South needs several short tunnels and bridges so might be more suited to traditional mining like the Heysen Tunnels anyway rather than the setup space for a TBM.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2024 3:59 pm
by Spotto
mattblack wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2024 10:07 am
Love to see the R1 ring road and short south added to that list.
Not sure how long these things last. Be boring continuously for 20+ yrs which would be fun.
IMO the R1 is too close to the CBD to warrant being a tunnelled route. A route that’s midway into the suburbs would be more usable for the entire city and keep congestion away from the CBD.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2024 4:13 pm
by ChillyPhilly
The TBMs won't be buried. They have a buyback clause.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2024 6:17 pm
by ChillyPhilly
From the T2D Facebook page:
There are several factors that affect whether a TBM will be re-used at the end of a project for a subsequent project. Various parts of TBMs do tend to suffer considerable wear in excavating and constructing any tunnel project and their useful remaining life may not be sufficient to make refurbishment and re-use worthwhile.
The TBMs to be used for T2D will be recovered when they have finished tunnel construction as they are subject to a “buy back” scheme from the TBM supplier.
Whether the TBMs get used again depends on the type of machine and the availability of a suitable similar project. For example, many of the TBMs used in the Sydney Metro tunnel projects in the last eight years have been re-used on the next project because they are the right size, and the ground conditions are very similar between projects.
#infrastructure #tunnelboringmachines #TBMs
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2024 10:20 am
by Saltwater
Great news. Underground CBD rail link it is then.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2024 7:04 pm
by NTRabbit
EBG wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2024 8:41 am
Stop planing and start digging . Adelaide most be the most overplaned and underdeveloped City in Australia.
Kinda funny given that (allegedly
) DPTI was renamed DIT because nobody who worked there could ever figure out what the P stood for
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2024 10:03 pm
by PD2/20
NTRabbit wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2024 7:04 pm
EBG wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2024 8:41 am
Stop planing and start digging . Adelaide most be the most overplaned and underdeveloped City in Australia.
Kinda funny given that (allegedly
) DPTI was renamed DIT because nobody who worked there could ever figure out what the P stood for
In the Weatherill Government, John Rau, the Attorney General, was also Minister of Planning. In the Marshall Government, planning was lumped in with transport and infrastructure, only to be transferred to the DTI (Trade and Investment) in the present government.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2024 3:49 pm
by EBG
Arround the world about 95% of TBM's are removed and reused. They can be reubulit by using different cutting heads for clay/ sandy , rocky soils or solid rock . In the other 5% where there is absolutley no space on the surface to phyically recover them they simply just bore off course into a dead end chamber never to be seen again.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2024 9:29 am
by rev
EBG wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 3:49 pm
Arround the world about 95% of TBM's are removed and reused. They can be reubulit by using different cutting heads for clay/ sandy , rocky soils or solid rock . In the other 5% where there is absolutley no space on the surface to phyically recover them they simply just bore off course into a dead end chamber never to be seen again.
Can they be reused for larger tunnels by changing the heads and other components?
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2024 10:38 am
by SouthAussie94
rev wrote: ↑Fri Oct 11, 2024 9:29 am
EBG wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2024 3:49 pm
Arround the world about 95% of TBM's are removed and reused. They can be reubulit by using different cutting heads for clay/ sandy , rocky soils or solid rock . In the other 5% where there is absolutley no space on the surface to phyically recover them they simply just bore off course into a dead end chamber never to be seen again.
Can they be reused for larger tunnels by changing the heads and other components?
No.
This GIF offers a good visual of how a TBM works.
https://experience.acciona.com/media/2821/gif.gif
The TBM digs the tunnel and lines the walls with precast concrete segments at the same time. The diameter of the TBM would dictate the diameter of the tunnel.
Sure, you could hypothetically remove the TBM once the tunnel is complete, change the cutter head, and use it to dig another tunnel in a different location with different soil conditions, but this tunnel would be the same size as the first.
You can't dig a big tunnel with a small TBM and you can't dig a small tunnel with a big TBM.
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 12:09 pm
by ChillyPhilly
Jacobs joins Alliance for T2D project
Jacobs is excited to be part of the preferred Alliance for the landmark River Torrens to Darlington Project (T2D) Project in South Australia. This Alliance unites the global and local expertise of industry leaders John Holland, Bouygues Construction Australia, Jacobs, Arcadis, and Ventia. This partnership is dedicated to setting the benchmark for high-quality, sustainable, and transformative project delivery and ongoing road maintenance and operations.
Jacobs Vice President and General Manager Eva Wood said, "We are proud to be part of the Alliance ready to apply our local and global expertise and experience to the T2D Project and help advance Adelaide's transportation system for the future."
[U/C] Re: M2 North-South Motorway
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2024 3:48 pm
by SBD
ChillyPhilly wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2024 12:09 pm
Jacobs joins Alliance for T2D project
Jacobs is excited to be part of the preferred Alliance for the landmark River Torrens to Darlington Project (T2D) Project in South Australia. This Alliance unites the global and local expertise of industry leaders John Holland, Bouygues Construction Australia, Jacobs, Arcadis, and Ventia. This partnership is dedicated to setting the benchmark for high-quality, sustainable, and transformative project delivery and ongoing road maintenance and operations.
Jacobs Vice President and General Manager Eva Wood said, "We are proud to be part of the Alliance ready to apply our local and global expertise and experience to the T2D Project and help advance Adelaide's transportation system for the future."
That's nice. What do they bring to the project? To me, Jacobs is the former abattoir and smallgoods manufacturer (including fritz) based at Mount Barker. The factory site now hosts Harvey Norman and similar economic drivers instead of food manufacturing.
