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The only thing still up in the air for me is i don't know if MHS will continue to fix/build important roads such as the northern connector, desal plant, electrify rail network, light rail in inner city....they are probaly the main ones for me.

frank1 wrote:The only thing still up in the air for me is i don't know if MHS will continue to fix/build important roads such as the northern connector, desal plant, electrify rail network, light rail in inner city....they are probaly the main ones for me.

I guess he would want to electrify the railways so he doesnt have exhaust stacks sticking up everywhere through his federation square style thingo.

veemur wrote:

waz94 wrote:

To all those worried about parking at any new CBD stadium, then you miss the whole point of having a CBD stadium directly located nearby major public transport. You wont need as much parking as AAMI stadium. The MCG and Etihad Stadium have limited parking as people use public transport to get there (train, tram or bus). Its a no brainer. This is why AAMI doesnt work as people have to drive there.

Precisely why Riverside is the ideal location for such a precinct! Access to public transport (train, tram, bus) is a critical element for success - now and into the future! It's the same rationale behind the environmentally friendly TODs for future residential developments.
Agree with Waz re AAMI - wrong, wrong, wrong location.

Opportunity exists for grand plans for the Railway Station for better integration into the precinct when SkyCity eventually vacates. An extended inner/near city tram network adds to the appeal.

I agree that the presence of public transport is a winner for the site, but don't over estimate the number of people that you'll entice from their cars. I factored in 20% of the visitors using PT in my guestimation above.

Still car parking is just one of my questions that people have seized upon. There's a far more important one in the list...

1. Where's the estimated 15,000 to 20,000 car parking spaces that this complex will need going? Underground?
2. Where's the all week people attractors that will support the cafe area? All the attractions except the science centre are ephemeral event hosts, and the science centre will mostly attract primary school groups. From this set of offerings the place will be deserted most of the time, as the site is remote from the CBD and its daily activity (about 15mins walk).
3. What sort of place will this area be at night? Where's the night time entertainment? What sort of elements are attracted to remote wide open spaces at night?
4. How will a dual line railway station and a tiny tram line cope with all the ingress and outgress of a stadium?

Considering the remoteness of the area from the rest of the CBD and its daytime activities, where's the draw for the daytime crowds? Will this be a wasteland during the weekday? Will it be a wasteland during the night when there's nothing on at the stadium or a special event? Where's the life going to come from?

monotonehell wrote:I agree that the presence of public transport is a winner for the site, but don't over estimate the number of people that you'll entice from their cars. I factored in 20% of the visitors using PT in my guestimation above.

I very much so understand your point here and know why you think so. Many people traditionally rely on their cars to get around and people come to town as well with their cars. However, North Terrace changes things a bit. North Terrace (let's face it) has/ will become the transport hub of the City unless something like a big Central Station with Trams and Trains is built under the Grenfell/Currie/KWS Intersection like Norman put forward in his (impressive) vision for the city.
North Terrace, in particular City West, already has the transport services there, such as trams, trains and buses (I've said it before, I won't say it again ). I for one have the 143 and 142 come past my house a few blocks away. It's actually quite a pleasant walk to get there, but if say I want to go to a match I simply catch either of those buses into town and I'm essentially at the Stadium's doorstep. Other people, who may not live so very close to transport services may still choose to drive to a nearby bus stop or Interchange and catch the PT Service into the city.
In a nutshell, as people will begin to see how effective this PT System will be, they will begin to catch PT to the Stadium on matchdays rather than drive their and pay a ridiculous parking fee. It has already been seen by the Introduction of the Footy Express buses that people will use Public Transport to catch the bus to... AAMI Stadium <shudder> rather than drive there. All that the PT System to Riverside West needs is a bit of time for people to discover its effectiveness.

monotonehell wrote:

2. Where's the all week people attractors that will support the cafe area? All the attractions except the science centre are ephemeral event hosts, and the science centre will mostly attract primary school groups. From this set of offerings the place will be deserted most of the time, as the site is remote from the CBD and its daily activity (about 15mins walk).
3. What sort of place will this area be at night? Where's the night time entertainment? What sort of elements are attracted to remote wide open spaces at night?

In terms of weekday utilization of the area, it would need office and residential buildings, etc. nearby to draw people wanting to say, come out for lunch or go for a job along the river, etc. I guess once you have a 'nucleus' there, things will slowly spring up around it. This has been shown with the Optus House and... current EC site. The areas which they are in wouldn't necessarily be growing now if it weren't for them, and that's just an Office Building and an Aerodrome (sorry, couldn't resist ), imagine what the flow on effects would be from a riverbank precinct like that of what MHS has proposed!

Meanwhile at night, I guess that the appropriate development around Riverside would need to take place for it be quite successful. Down at Southbank in Melbourne, they had these huge flame throwing... things that provided an attraction for tourists as well as the Eureka Tower and other restaurants and cafe's. I guess Southbank's close proximity to Melbourne's CBD is an added bonus, but like I said, once you have the 'nucleus' there, things will begin to spring up around them. The CBD's density of Office buildings won't remain in the North-Eastern corner forever.

Cruise wrote:

frank1 wrote:The only thing still up in the air for me is i don't know if MHS will continue to fix/build important roads such as the northern connector, desal plant, electrify rail network, light rail in inner city....they are probaly the main ones for me.

I guess he would want to electrify the railways so he doesnt have exhaust stacks sticking up everywhere through his federation square style thingo.

Yes, I'd think so too. Also considering that he brought up the Electrification Issue last February, you'd expect him to stick to his word unless he wants to plan a semi-election suicide which I severely doubt. So so far it looks like whoever wins the election, Adelaide will get an electrified railway network, 84 years after the first Sydney line was electrified: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railways_i ... n_timeline

imagine what the flow on effects would be from a riverbank precinct like that of what MHS has proposed!

Great!! So built it and they will come you reckon. In planning terms thats just about the worst thing you can do. Your basically making a $700 Million bet. How can you rely on this? You need to plan around your needs NOT plan needs for the infrastructre that is sitting idle 5 days a week.

they're still struggling to pay off the debt that funded the Docklands stadium in Melbourne...which is why so many AFL clubs are caught up in expensive stadium deals. and thats in a city nearly 5 times the size.
i really cant see how we can afford this sort of thing in Adelaide and how it will ever pay for itself.
sorry...its a pipe dream and an election stunt.

it would be nice to have some sort of civic centre...as i've said on other threads... perhaps Light Square is best suited as it has more usable space than Vic square

So if the Belair Line isn't going to get electrified for a while, how will that affect this development? Will they be stranded out at Keswick because they can't get in? Or will MHS bite the bullet and electrify a rail line that may or may not have major changes in the near future?

Guys can i just say that MHS is full of it. A client of mine is in politics and MHS can be quoted as saying that the liberals "don't care about a stadium, we just want to get Rann". Believe me, they win there won't be a stadium going up any time soon if at all!

Yeah great opposition we have, good to see their hearts are really in it.

Sorry doesn't add up benski81, sounds alot like your client is just scare-mongering. I first heard about this proposal over 12 months ago, this wasn't just something that was concocted over-night.

Also I think people are forgetting that the stadium is just a part of the precinct.. it could work just as well without a stadium if done right.

mattblack wrote:

imagine what the flow on effects would be from a riverbank precinct like that of what MHS has proposed!

Great!! So built it and they will come you reckon. In planning terms thats just about the worst thing you can do. Your basically making a $700 Million bet. How can you rely on this? You need to plan around your needs NOT plan needs for the infrastructre that is sitting idle 5 days a week.

But MattBlack, this is exactly the same policy has Media Mike. He has stated on many occasions that by building in the west end railyards (e.g the Marj) will lead to increased development in the north western corner of the CBD and also along the riverbank (he stated cafes/restaurants and a hotel). Wherever the tram line goes will also lead to increased development along it. Noone is denying that as its a true statement. It will. Build it and they will come.

mattblack wrote:

imagine what the flow on effects would be from a riverbank precinct like that of what MHS has proposed!

Great!! So built it and they will come you reckon.

Why yes, that's sort of what happened with AAMI Stadium. Not the fact that it is alive each and every day of the week , no, no; but rather things like West Lakes Mall, lakeside restaurants and apartments followed. That was just AAMI Stadium, which has helped a new suburb's birth; what would happen if a new world-class stadium and Federation Square-Style precinct were to be built right next to the CBD, between North Terrace and the River Torrens Lake?

He has stated on many occasions that by building in the west end railyards (e.g the Marj) will lead to increased development in the north western corner of the CBD and also along the riverbank (he stated cafes/restaurants and a hotel).

You Know im not against a stadium in the city, just not on Nth tce. Any stadium is dead during the week, its their nature. AAMI, Dead, Adelaide oval, Dead. Walked around the millenium stadium in Cardiff, I have, even though its in the middle of town, you guessed it, Dead. We need attractions on the site that will give people a reason for being there 24/7 (basically). Put retail shops and restaurants there, interactive science museum, SA history museum, National motor museum, bands at night, move popeye and the paddleboats down there ....... whatever.

Put the stadium on the other side of the river on the golf course. Doesnt require rezoning Its already a sporting facility, could be connected with Memorial Dr and Ad oval to make sporting precinct, train connection right and when its dead during the week it wont create a barron atmosphere right next to town.

adam73837 wrote:Why yes, that's sort of what happened with AAMI Stadium. Not the fact that it is alive each and every day of the week , no, no; but rather things like West Lakes Mall, lakeside restaurants and apartments followed. That was just AAMI Stadium, which has helped a new suburb's birth; what would happen if a new world-class stadium and Federation Square-Style precinct were to be built right next to the CBD, between North Terrace and the River Torrens Lake?

Well, maybe they should build a shopping mall then, and forget the stadium? That's why people go to West Lakes all the time, not because there's a silly stadium across the street, which is used once a week if that.

In Melbourne there aren't hordes of people rushing around the area of the two stadiums. I'm not saying that it's not worth building a stadium in the city, but just don't merely assume that the area would be busy all the time. A hospital is busy with people coming and going all the time, but the stadium precinct would only be busy on the weekends when there are sporting events

Federation Square works because it's in a great location, opposite the main train terminus, and on the corner of the very busy Swanston and Flinders Streets, with trams coming and going. Riverside West is a bit more out of the way, the only people I could see using that area during the day are students from UniSA, if all there is is a stadium and an entertainment centre.

The current RAH site is a much better location for a cultural precinct.

In Adelaide it will be very hard to shift people away from the North Terrace cultural precinct and Rundle Mall, unless there's something really worthwhile at Riverside West, but unfortunately I don't see that in this proposal.

mattblack wrote:

He has stated on many occasions that by building in the west end railyards (e.g the Marj) will lead to increased development in the north western corner of the CBD and also along the riverbank (he stated cafes/restaurants and a hotel).

You Know im not against a stadium in the city, just not on Nth tce. Any stadium is dead during the week, its their nature. AAMI, Dead, Adelaide oval, Dead. Walked around the millenium stadium in Cardiff, I have, even though its in the middle of town, you guessed it, Dead. We need attractions on the site that will give people a reason for being there 24/7 (basically). Put retail shops and restaurants there, interactive science museum, SA history museum, National motor museum, bands at night, move popeye and the paddleboats down there ....... whatever.

Put the stadium on the other side of the river on the golf course. Doesnt require rezoning Its already a sporting facility, could be connected with Memorial Dr and Ad oval to make sporting precinct, train connection right and when its dead during the week it wont create a barron atmosphere right next to town.

Mr Black, you've actually answered my question as to why we we SHOULDNT waste this space and build a hospital. Your exactly right, we need something that will attract people to this location and RANN's hospital will do the complete opposite. I cant see people rushing to see the new hospital (unless they are in the back of an ambulance). Whilst MHS's proposal is still raw at least its a step forward to utilising this location for an entertainment precinct. Everyone knows that if the Libs win next election and they proceed with this, it is still 10 years away and designs/plans will change significantly. But above at least a hospital wont be wasted on this spot.
Putting the stadium where you propose, would never get through because its parklands and the North Adelaide residents would not allow it. It also would not solve the problems of hiding the train tracks and people are still lazy and will not walk the 250 metres acrosss the Torrens to get there.
Catchya saturday.

mattblack wrote:

He has stated on many occasions that by building in the west end railyards (e.g the Marj) will lead to increased development in the north western corner of the CBD and also along the riverbank (he stated cafes/restaurants and a hotel).

You Know im not against a stadium in the city, just not on Nth tce. Any stadium is dead during the week, its their nature. AAMI, Dead, Adelaide oval, Dead. Walked around the millenium stadium in Cardiff, I have, even though its in the middle of town, you guessed it, Dead.

Yes, I understand that you aren't against an Inner-City Stadium and what you're saying makes a lot of sense. However as waz94 mentioned, I severely doubt that any sort of significant replacement of Adelaide Oval would be 'allowed', , by the North Adelaide residents and the dreaded APPA, unless someone like Kennet comes in and does it regardless of what vocal minorities may think. Personally, I don't really mind the Adelaide Oval site or City West. Both are very easily accessible from the city (in fact Adelaide Oval is quite central in the city of Adelaide, because, with a tram, etc., it could still be able to have a flow-on effect to North Adelaide's precincts as well as that of the city's), however I just think that Riverside West is that bit closer to help revitalize the West End with the help of the other things that MHS has put forward in his vision and (hopefully in the near future) a tram down Hindley Street, etc. But like I said, Adelaide Oval would be fine as well, providing that there are huge pedestrian links and a strong, vibrant Riverside area to ensure that the West End is revitalized.

mattblack wrote:We need attractions on the site that will give people a reason for being there 24/7 (basically). Put retail shops and restaurants there, interactive science museum, SA history museum, National motor museum, bands at night, move popeye and the paddleboats down there ....... whatever.

I completely agree 100%.

I saw this article in The Advertiser this morning:

The Advertiser wrote:THE Opposition has been branded "idiots" for proposing a new football stadium in the city and accused of being involved in "a stitch-up" with The Advertiser over the proposal.

Treasurer Kevin Foley launched a series of bitter attacks against the proposal -unveiled by Opposition Leader Martin Hamilton-Smith- for a new stadium and entertainment precinct on the railyards site in the city's West End.

Mr Foley named The Advertiser -which reported the story exclusively on Monday morning- more than a dozen times as he answered a series of questions from both his own side and Opposition about funding for the project and also the new hospital.

Mr Foley described Mr Hamilton-Smith as "Mr Bankrupt" who was hell-bent on sending multiple billions of dollars on the project.

"There has been no scrutiny in the printed media," he said, continuing the attack Premier Mike Rann started on Monday morning when he voiced similar complaints during an interview on ABC radio.

"No one, particularly The Advertiser, seems interested in something which could bankrupt the state," Mr Foley said.

"Here we are having to justify whether our planned hospital is in the Budget. It is a bloody stitch-up.

"It (The Advertiser) will not put Mr Hamilton-Smith under any pressure at all."

Advertiser editor Melvin Mansell said: "Hopefully for the state, the Treasurer regains grip on reality before he frames the Budget in June."

I'll try and keep my comments on this to a minimum because once I get started, it'll require a lot to stop me, but can someone please explain to Furious Foley that The Advertiser is not being biased?
It was all well and good when Radio announcers, TV commercials, TV presenters, The Advertiser and other papers were covering the story of 'The Marj' when it was unveiled wasn't it? But now that the Opposition has released an exciting vision for the State, Media Mike and Furious Foley have gone into panic mode and (seem to be) scared shitless. I'm not making any wild assumptions here, I'm just stating what I see and hear. BTW, he claims that this will 'send the state bankrupt', but quite frankly, what has more chances of sending us further into debt? A hospital or a economic-activity-generating precinct? <I stand to be corrected>

The Advertiser's role is to provide unbiased information to the South Australian public, regardless of whether or not Media Mike and Furious Foley approve of the stories. Quite frankly, I don't see what is wrong with The Advertiser showing the plans of one of the City's most fantastic vision's in a long time on the front page of the Monday paper. Can someone tell me? Or is Furious Foley becoming furious because The Advertiser's readers have for such a long time been embracing the concept of an Inner-City Stadium? If so, perhaps he should take a good look at how he and Media Mike are treating the public and start listening to them. Of course if they don't want to; I'm good . It'd be a good excuse for things like Riverside to be built, the RAH to be upgraded, etc. whilst the Labor Party reshuffles and comes back stronger and more... accepting-of-the-public's-decisions-yet-having-the-guts-to-stand-up-against-vocal-minorities-that-constantly-pull-Rann's-stringsin the next election. <awaits e-slapping for criticising Rann and hence 'going against the flow' >
<end rant>