News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[rubberman]

When even the RAA are agreeing with increased spending on the rail network, you know it NEEDS to be done.

The RAA wants less competition for cars. I imagine the detail would not go down with many here.

For example, cross town bus services feeding to fewer stations, rather than radial bus services to the city would suit the RAA down to the ground. Lots of transfers from bus to fast rail are efficient. But try getting Adelaide PT users to accept transfers.

[Spotto]

cross town bus services feeding to fewer stations, rather than radial bus services to the city would suit the RAA down to the ground. Lots of transfers from bus to fast rail are efficient. But try getting Adelaide PT users to accept transfers.

If the transfers are quick, easy and sensible then people will use them.

1-2 transfers would be the max tolerance for most people. Anything more than that isn’t worth trying to encourage.

[PeFe]

Yes to Aldinga and the Sellicks Beach corridor.

No to Concordia extension
Yes to a proper Gawler bus interchange to service Gawler and the Barossa Valley.

Interested to find out why you're saying no to a Concordia extension.

Why should Concordia get a train station? Is it justified? Train extensions cost approx $100 million dollars per kilometre.....

Is Concordia going to be a 1950's style suburban development where the car rules and the only people who use public transport are the CBD workers and the under 18's?

Will the Concordia layout be totally condusive to car travel making any attempt at bus transport awkward and slow.....

Why are we building new suburbia so far from the CBD? Concordia must be 44 kms from the CBD....

Riverlea is at least 35kms from the CBD in the middle of nowhere.....

Adelaide is only 1.4 million people, that is nothing by world standards, the density is really really low even compared to other western countries.

No more train extensions to low sprawling suburbia....not unless it involves density and services being centred around the train station.

I would rather see a proper bus interchange built at Gawler Central servicing the buses from the Barossa Valley and a local Gawler bus service that includes Concordia if it is built.

[rubberman]

cross town bus services feeding to fewer stations, rather than radial bus services to the city would suit the RAA down to the ground. Lots of transfers from bus to fast rail are efficient. But try getting Adelaide PT users to accept transfers.

If the transfers are quick, easy and sensible then people will use them.

1-2 transfers would be the max tolerance for most people. Anything more than that isn’t worth trying to encourage.

Yeah, quite likely. I was just trying to work out what the RAA might mean by investing more in PT. They're more interested in PT that makes it easier for cars. Hence the feeding of buses into trains and getting them of radial routes.

[abc]

Yes to Aldinga and the Sellicks Beach corridor.

No to Concordia extension
Yes to a proper Gawler bus interchange to service Gawler and the Barossa Valley.

Interested to find out why you're saying no to a Concordia extension.

Why should Concordia get a train station? Is it justified? Train extensions cost approx $100 million dollars per kilometre.....

Is Concordia going to be a 1950's style suburban development where the car rules and the only people who use public transport are the CBD workers and the under 18's?

Will the Concordia layout be totally condusive to car travel making any attempt at bus transport awkward and slow.....

Why are we building new suburbia so far from the CBD? Concordia must be 44 kms from the CBD....

Riverlea is at least 35kms from the CBD in the middle of nowhere.....

Adelaide is only 1.4 million people, that is nothing by world standards, the density is really really low even compared to other western countries.

No more train extensions to low sprawling suburbia....not unless it involves density and services being centred around the train station.

I would rather see a proper bus interchange built at Gawler Central servicing the buses from the Barossa Valley and a local Gawler bus service that includes Concordia if it is built.

you say that like its a bad thing

have you lived in a high density city?

[PeFe]

Interested to find out why you're saying no to a Concordia extension.

Why should Concordia get a train station? Is it justified? Train extensions cost approx $100 million dollars per kilometre.....

Is Concordia going to be a 1950's style suburban development where the car rules and the only people who use public transport are the CBD workers and the under 18's?

Will the Concordia layout be totally condusive to car travel making any attempt at bus transport awkward and slow.....

Why are we building new suburbia so far from the CBD? Concordia must be 44 kms from the CBD....

Riverlea is at least 35kms from the CBD in the middle of nowhere.....

Adelaide is only 1.4 million people, that is nothing by world standards, the density is really really low even compared to other western countries.

No more train extensions to low sprawling suburbia....not unless it involves density and services being centred around the train station.

I would rather see a proper bus interchange built at Gawler Central servicing the buses from the Barossa Valley and a local Gawler bus service that includes Concordia if it is built.

you say that like its a bad thing

have you lived in a high density city?

Yes I have I lived in Paris for 2 months in 2002 and I have travelled quite extensively through some of the biggest cities in the world... London New York Tokyo Hong Kong Shanghai Los Angeles....

[ChillyPhilly]

Yes to Aldinga and the Sellicks Beach corridor.

No to Concordia extension
Yes to a proper Gawler bus interchange to service Gawler and the Barossa Valley.

Interested to find out why you're saying no to a Concordia extension.

Why should Concordia get a train station? Is it justified? Train extensions cost approx $100 million dollars per kilometre.....

Is Concordia going to be a 1950's style suburban development where the car rules and the only people who use public transport are the CBD workers and the under 18's?

Will the Concordia layout be totally condusive to car travel making any attempt at bus transport awkward and slow.....

Why are we building new suburbia so far from the CBD? Concordia must be 44 kms from the CBD....

Riverlea is at least 35kms from the CBD in the middle of nowhere.....

Adelaide is only 1.4 million people, that is nothing by world standards, the density is really really low even compared to other western countries.

No more train extensions to low sprawling suburbia....not unless it involves density and services being centred around the train station.

I would rather see a proper bus interchange built at Gawler Central servicing the buses from the Barossa Valley and a local Gawler bus service that includes Concordia if it is built.

Take out the airport and Adelaide is reltively dense - certainly more so than many American cities, which are completely the antithesis of good quality urban planning. Adelaide deserves a good public transport network, and people should not settle for less, or at least, not settle for medocrity.

[PeFe]

I visited Bordeaux in France in 2018, France's 5th city, population 1.35 million, arguably the French version of Adelaide.

It's urban area stops 7 or 8 kilometres from the centre in any direction.....

[abc]

Why should Concordia get a train station? Is it justified? Train extensions cost approx $100 million dollars per kilometre.....

Is Concordia going to be a 1950's style suburban development where the car rules and the only people who use public transport are the CBD workers and the under 18's?

Will the Concordia layout be totally condusive to car travel making any attempt at bus transport awkward and slow.....

Why are we building new suburbia so far from the CBD? Concordia must be 44 kms from the CBD....

Riverlea is at least 35kms from the CBD in the middle of nowhere.....

Adelaide is only 1.4 million people, that is nothing by world standards, the density is really really low even compared to other western countries.

No more train extensions to low sprawling suburbia....not unless it involves density and services being centred around the train station.

I would rather see a proper bus interchange built at Gawler Central servicing the buses from the Barossa Valley and a local Gawler bus service that includes Concordia if it is built.

you say that like its a bad thing

have you lived in a high density city?

Yes I have I lived in Paris for 2 months in 2002 and I have travelled quite extensively through some of the biggest cities in the world... London New York Tokyo Hong Kong Shanghai Los Angeles....

going on holiday isn't living somewhere

[rubberman]

you say that like its a bad thing

have you lived in a high density city?

Yes I have I lived in Paris for 2 months in 2002 and I have travelled quite extensively through some of the biggest cities in the world... London New York Tokyo Hong Kong Shanghai Los Angeles....

going on holiday isn't living somewhere

The discussion was substantially about public transport use, not deep culture. PeFe's observations about public transport and density ought to be argued on their merits. PeFe was still there long enough to make valid observations on how things are done differently.

It's quite frustrating sometimes to observe things operating perfectly well elsewhere in the world, and then people who have never seen these places just dismissing them for reasons not connected to the issue. So far, so good. But then those same people will complain about how Adelaide doesn't spend enough on their favourite project.

[Nort]

Yes to Aldinga and the Sellicks Beach corridor.

No to Concordia extension
Yes to a proper Gawler bus interchange to service Gawler and the Barossa Valley.

Interested to find out why you're saying no to a Concordia extension.

Why should Concordia get a train station? Is it justified? Train extensions cost approx $100 million dollars per kilometre.....

Is Concordia going to be a 1950's style suburban development where the car rules and the only people who use public transport are the CBD workers and the under 18's?

Will the Concordia layout be totally condusive to car travel making any attempt at bus transport awkward and slow.....

Why are we building new suburbia so far from the CBD? Concordia must be 44 kms from the CBD....

Riverlea is at least 35kms from the CBD in the middle of nowhere.....

Adelaide is only 1.4 million people, that is nothing by world standards, the density is really really low even compared to other western countries.

No more train extensions to low sprawling suburbia....not unless it involves density and services being centred around the train station.

I would rather see a proper bus interchange built at Gawler Central servicing the buses from the Barossa Valley and a local Gawler bus service that includes Concordia if it is built.

Flip it around.

We keep building sprawl because it's seen as the cheap easy solution, and we say that new developments don't need these things so it's not a problem that they aren't in there from the start.

However if we make it policy that any new large expansion of the suburban boundaries requires things like appropriate public transport considerations from the start then it will likely mean some of the developments you bemoan will be judged to actually not be viable and not go ahead. Those that do will be higher quality.

[abc]

Interested to find out why you're saying no to a Concordia extension.

Why should Concordia get a train station? Is it justified? Train extensions cost approx $100 million dollars per kilometre.....

Is Concordia going to be a 1950's style suburban development where the car rules and the only people who use public transport are the CBD workers and the under 18's?

Will the Concordia layout be totally condusive to car travel making any attempt at bus transport awkward and slow.....

Why are we building new suburbia so far from the CBD? Concordia must be 44 kms from the CBD....

Riverlea is at least 35kms from the CBD in the middle of nowhere.....

Adelaide is only 1.4 million people, that is nothing by world standards, the density is really really low even compared to other western countries.

No more train extensions to low sprawling suburbia....not unless it involves density and services being centred around the train station.

I would rather see a proper bus interchange built at Gawler Central servicing the buses from the Barossa Valley and a local Gawler bus service that includes Concordia if it is built.

Flip it around.

We keep building sprawl because it's seen as the cheap easy solution, and we say that new developments don't need these things so it's not a problem that they aren't in there from the start.

However if we make it policy that any new large expansion of the suburban boundaries requires things like appropriate public transport considerations from the start then it will likely mean some of the developments you bemoan will be judged to actually not be viable and not go ahead. Those that do will be higher quality.

that's not true at all

suburban lifestyle is preferred to apartment living for most people... its the Australian way of life which many now seem to take for granted and want to turn the place into Europe but without all the historic sites and attractions

[Spotto]

Not current AdMet tracks, but: https://dit.sa.gov.au/infrastructure/ro ... water-loop

Rosewater Loop Project

The South Australian Government has committed to converting the disused railway line through Rosewater and Ottaway into a green open space for the community.

Funding of $1.5 million has been allocated towards the first stage of the project to undertake detailed site investigations and decommission the rail line.

The first stage of the project will include:

• engineering survey and contamination testing;

• decommissioning and removal of the rail line signalling infrastructure;

• removal of railway track and sleepers;

• development of a preliminary design for a shared use path;

• identifying greening opportunities through the corridor.

The Rosewater Loop project extends from the Outer Harbor Greenway on Russell St to the existing path near McNicol Street, Rosewater. It is approximately 3km in length and follows the rail corridor through Rosewater and Ottoway and the former Gillman Railyards.

Ultimately, it will better connect the suburbs of Rosewater, Ottoway and Gillman with the Outer Harbor Greenway, Port Adelaide centre and the new Port Dock railway station; provide improved access to land for the communities of Rosewater, Ottaway and Gillman; and enable long-term retention of the rail corridor.

The City of Port Adelaide Enfield has developed a concept masterplan for the corridor to include a shared path for people walking and riding bikes, landscaping, community facilities and public art opportunities.

Community and stakeholder engagement is important for the successful delivery of this project. Awaiting the outcome of the engineering investigations, the Department in collaboration will be seeking community feedback on the preliminary designs.



What's Next

Engineering investigations will commence in December 2022 and continue into January 2023. The investigations will be conducted during the day and any impact will be minimised.

The decommissioning of the rail line, such as track, signal and sleeper removal, is expected to be undertaken in the second quarter of 2023, weather permitting.

[SRW]

Not current AdMet tracks, but: https://dit.sa.gov.au/infrastructure/ro ... water-loop

Rosewater Loop Project

The South Australian Government has committed to converting the disused railway line through Rosewater and Ottaway into a green open space for the community.

Funding of $1.5 million has been allocated towards the first stage of the project to undertake detailed site investigations and decommission the rail line.

The first stage of the project will include:

• engineering survey and contamination testing;

• decommissioning and removal of the rail line signalling infrastructure;

• removal of railway track and sleepers;

• development of a preliminary design for a shared use path;

• identifying greening opportunities through the corridor.

The Rosewater Loop project extends from the Outer Harbor Greenway on Russell St to the existing path near McNicol Street, Rosewater. It is approximately 3km in length and follows the rail corridor through Rosewater and Ottoway and the former Gillman Railyards.

Ultimately, it will better connect the suburbs of Rosewater, Ottoway and Gillman with the Outer Harbor Greenway, Port Adelaide centre and the new Port Dock railway station; provide improved access to land for the communities of Rosewater, Ottaway and Gillman; and enable long-term retention of the rail corridor.

The City of Port Adelaide Enfield has developed a concept masterplan for the corridor to include a shared path for people walking and riding bikes, landscaping, community facilities and public art opportunities.

Community and stakeholder engagement is important for the successful delivery of this project. Awaiting the outcome of the engineering investigations, the Department in collaboration will be seeking community feedback on the preliminary designs.



What's Next

Engineering investigations will commence in December 2022 and continue into January 2023. The investigations will be conducted during the day and any impact will be minimised.

The decommissioning of the rail line, such as track, signal and sleeper removal, is expected to be undertaken in the second quarter of 2023, weather permitting.

I guess in the absence of any immediate use, it's a good outcome which preserves the corridor and benefits the local community.

[cocoiadrop]

that's not true at all

suburban lifestyle is preferred to apartment living for most people... its the Australian way of life which many now seem to take for granted and want to turn the place into Europe but without all the historic sites and attractions

No... people want suburbs that are

a) accessible to everyone, including people without a car and people with less mobility
b) served with frequent public transport to places where people want to go
c) sustainable and affordable for people on low incomes (which is a significant portion of people living in outer sprawl)

This doesn't mean turning Adelaide "into Europe" or violating the so-called "Australian way of life", whatever that means in 2023