News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[rev]

Never heard of sexual assaults, or any assault, happening on the pedestrian side of things along Rosetta st?

There has been an assault (I think of a sexual nature, I can't remember) in this underpass in the last couple of years. Before Labor got in we have received various letters from Peter Malinauskus saying he was lobbying for CCTV because of this, and have had a letter in the last few weeks saying this has now been budgeted for.

I'm an adult male and I don't really like using underpasses after dark to be honest. The original one at Bowden was pretty grim and not a great place to be. The one at Rosetta Street is so-so and the one at Croydon is quite often dark because people spray thick tags on the lighting. Overpasses are pretty crap too as they just turn a 20m walk into a 100m walk with endlessly winding ramps.

I think regular pedestrian crossings are vital to ensure that neighbourhoods remain easily traversable on foot and don't require a detour of 2km in either direction just to visit neighbours or a business 200m away. Kilometer for kilometer, is crossing a railway at surface level any more dangerous than crossing a main arterial road? Compared to road traffic trains follow an incredibly predictable path so there should be no practical barrier to people using the crossings safely.

Are school kids statistically more likely to play chicken in front of an approaching train than they would an approaching truck? Do we definitely have a rail-specific problem here that needs solving?

Apparently that kid that got hit by a train the other week was playing chicken with it.
If pedestrian underpasses or overpasses are a no go for safety reasons and what not, then sink the train lines under roads instead, or put the roads and footpaths over.
Torrens Road overpass should be a catalyst for the whole train network.

[NTRabbit]

How many assaults have happened along the sunken rail station at Bowden?

Bowden and Oaklands aren't just underground tunnels though, they're entire stations with big and expansive spaces that are easy to cover with lights and CCTV that can't easily be taken out of action by taggers or worse.

I'm a large adult male, and I'm not a fan of using those tunnels after dark either.

[PD2/20]

Marion is the sole ezample of a station underpass that was constructed in recent years to replace the foot overbridge removed for the Seaford electrification. The underpass has wider ramps and tunnel than the normal pattern of underpass found elsewhere on the network. Another modern trend has been the use of lifts such as at Seaford, Elizabeth and Munno Para which have eliminated pedestrian crossings.

[cocoiadrop]

The Marion underpass is also open and very easy to cover with CCTV, unlike the very small corridors of stations such as Parafield Gardens.

[Eurostar]

Marion is the sole ezample of a station underpass that was constructed in recent years to replace the foot overbridge removed for the Seaford electrification. The underpass has wider ramps and tunnel than the normal pattern of underpass found elsewhere on the network. Another modern trend has been the use of lifts such as at Seaford, Elizabeth and Munno Para which have eliminated pedestrian crossings.

Elizabeth imo was a wasted opportunity, there should of been a ramp installed too , the bridge should of been extended to the Elizabeth City Centre too. Salisbury should of had pedestrian overpass installed too.

[MT269]

I remember the Elizabeth South underpass from around the turn of the millennium. It was poorly lit, narrow, and often wreaked of urine. It was a design flaw from the days when drugs and internet were less of an issue. If there are any of these left, they need to be removed immediately. This was 20 years ago. It would only be less unsightly today.

I think the U shaped entrance to the crossings found at many stations is enough for attentive folks. If they're stupid enough to not look out in both directions, and without their phone impeding their comprehension, then that's their loss. Although they are a risk for those with walkers/crutches, especially when they're near blind corners. Stations like Chidda, Womma, Kilburn, and even Edwardstown come to mind.

One of the benefits of island platforms is that there is no need to cross both tracks at once, which can be a challenge for those with limited mobility. But I doubt one can rely on the government to spend hundreds of millions to upgrade stations with grade separated pedestrian access.

[NTRabbit]

If there are any of these left, they need to be removed immediately. This was 20 years ago. It would only be less unsightly today.

Woodlands Park does, personally used it last football season after accidentally getting on a train that was express to there, because for some reason on a Saturday night after football (I mean well after, like 90 minutes post game, the trains were already wound back to every 30 minutes per line) they were running all the Seafrod trains express, with only Flinders serving the intermediate. Had to get an uber back to my mate's place at Clarence.

Ascot Park and Goodwood are likewise only accessible by ancient tunnel, while Warradale, Brighton, and Marino have an ancient tunnel and level crossing,

[ouchjars]

Marion is the sole ezample of a station underpass that was constructed in recent years to replace the foot overbridge removed for the Seaford electrification. The underpass has wider ramps and tunnel than the normal pattern of underpass found elsewhere on the network. Another modern trend has been the use of lifts such as at Seaford, Elizabeth and Munno Para which have eliminated pedestrian crossings.

Thinking back to this:

Marion/Ascot Park merger could be a fantastic move. Alternatively, if they don't want to spend the money, the M44 could be extended to Oaklands to provide an interchange there

Marion is as protected by Westminster as Mile End is by Temple, the rest of the stations may change around them, but they're going nowhere.

Putting it a bit further from Westminster as the crow flies just makes it closer to Sacred Heart Middle, as well as Hamilton, if it were zoned with the train line in mind. The ramp to Marion makes it, effectively, 300 metres further from Westminster than if there were a level crossing at its southwest end. Access to Ascot Park is similarly constrained. If the new station over Marion/Daws Roads were directly accessible from every approach, like Oaklands, you could almost merge them without leaving anyone worse off.

In general, depending on train length and how far you think is reasonable to walk, a station like Oaklands or Edwardstown could serve a 15 to 30% bigger catchment than a station like Marion just by saving everyone from doubling back past the other end of the platform from where they came.

It's also worth looking at stopping patterns. I wonder how many people could walk to these stations but park and ride at Oaklands or Woodlands Park because they each get three times as many trains in peak. 15 minute waits in interpeak become 20, up to 33 minutes after the 8:50 am from Marion! If you missed that, the fastest way into the city would be from the closest M44 stop. Don't miss the 3:56 or 6:26 pm back from Adelaide either, or else you're better off catching the next Flinders service and walking all the way from Mitchell Park.

[RetroGamer87]

I heard a rumer that Noarlunga Centre station was supposed to have a much more elaborate pedestrian overpass but it was cut back to a simpler version to save cost.

[[Shuz]]

I thought Noarlunga already had a pedestrian overpass? Or is there something structurally wrong with it?

[RetroGamer87]

It already has one but it was supposed to have a bigger one.

[RetroGamer87]

Anecdotally, I think this has something to do with concerns about pedestrian underpasses like the ones at Goodwood, Mile End etc being dangerous places where undesirables congregate. Adelaide seems to be unique in Australia in the way pedestrian level crossings are everywhere. I'm not sure why it is seen as an acceptable solution. Often it is completely unnecessary, like where there is an existing pedestrian bridge (eg Alberton) or underpass (Goodwood), but pedestrians are still allowed to cross the tracks by level crossing.

Sounds like the usual South Australian folklore of Chinese whispers.
More like the real reason is it's cheaper then pedestrian underpasses.

No he's right, the reason they don't build underpasses anymore is for public safety, direct from my Civ Eng consultant friend - they can't guarantee the coverage or integrity of CCTV, and those tunnels are out of sight from the road and any potential witnesses or help. This is with particular respect to assault and sexual assault, not plain average delinquency.

The reason they don't build more overpasses, now that's money.

Endangering people for public safety. People getting killed by trains and they say people are safer sharing space with a moving train then in a pedestrian tunnel.

[rhino]

People cross roads all the time, often not at a controlled crossing, let alone a pedestrian overpass or underpass. If someone gets hit by a car, it's generally considered to be the fault of the pedestrian, not the driver of the car. But for some reason, if some idiot walks in front of a train, it's the fault of the infrastructure. Should we all be protected from ourselves, or should we take some responsibility for our actions?

[SBD]

People cross roads all the time, often not at a controlled crossing, let alone a pedestrian overpass or underpass. If someone gets hit by a car, it's generally considered to be the fault of the pedestrian, not the driver of the car. But for some reason, if some idiot walks in front of a train, it's the fault of the infrastructure. Should we all be protected from ourselves, or should we take some responsibility for our actions?

How much "responsibility" is required for a person (perhaps aged or disabled) to predict whether a train will come at speed round the bend in the time it takes the pedestrian to cross two or three tracks?

The crossing in the north parklands where someone was killed a few years ago does not have a nearby road level crossing to give audible warnings of a train coming round the bend. I can think of others near road crossings, but I'm not sure I'd want to try to complete crossing if I had started from the other side just before the bells started.

Car drivers are assumed to be always driving at a speed at which they can see further than their stopping distance. The same is not expected for train drivers. Trains are expected to go round blind corners. Cars and trucks are not.

[rhino]

People cross roads all the time, often not at a controlled crossing, let alone a pedestrian overpass or underpass. If someone gets hit by a car, it's generally considered to be the fault of the pedestrian, not the driver of the car. But for some reason, if some idiot walks in front of a train, it's the fault of the infrastructure. Should we all be protected from ourselves, or should we take some responsibility for our actions?

How much "responsibility" is required for a person (perhaps aged or disabled) to predict whether a train will come at speed round the bend in the time it takes the pedestrian to cross two or three tracks?

The crossing in the north parklands where someone was killed a few years ago does not have a nearby road level crossing to give audible warnings of a train coming round the bend. I can think of others near road crossings, but I'm not sure I'd want to try to complete crossing if I had started from the other side just before the bells started.

Car drivers are assumed to be always driving at a speed at which they can see further than their stopping distance. The same is not expected for train drivers. Trains are expected to go round blind corners. Cars and trucks are not.

Valid.