News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

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abc
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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#1531 Post by abc » Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:44 pm

Archer wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2024 3:47 pm
Different News article on the same Hail Incident: https://www.newsweek.com/thousands-sola ... rm-1883546
I have no idea how reliable any of these news reports are, just found some further information in this one that seemed interesting & relevant.

Interesting Excerpts:
Solar panels are built to be fairly durable to the elements and can continue to produce energy if damaged. Research by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory suggests hail-cracked panels have less than four percent energy loss. However, the Department of Energy notes that baseball-sized hail can have enough kinetic energy to fully break the glass on solar panels.
While solar panels can contain toxic substances such as cadmium telluride and copper indium gallium diselenide, in solar cells they are found in solid form in a thin film that usually only becomes an environmental concern when disposing of them. It is also unclear if the panels at Fighting Jays Solar Farm contain the chemicals.

Experts have said that solar panels have several protective layers to avoid the substances being exposed through damage. County officials told local news outlets that hazardous materials crews had so far found no contamination in the area.
"based in London"
"covered climate change extensively"
Aleks Phillips is a Newsweek U.S. News Reporter based in London. His focus is on U.S. politics and the environment. He has covered climate change extensively, as well as healthcare and crime.
solid source :hilarious:

no conflict of interest to see here

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#1532 Post by Algernon » Wed Mar 27, 2024 5:54 pm

Ok boomer

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#1533 Post by rubberman » Wed Mar 27, 2024 5:54 pm

SBD wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:50 am
abc wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:44 pm
SBD wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:32 pm


so someone who didn't want a solar farm next door expressed "concern" to their local FOX station, who published the story without waiting for comment by the solar farm owner, nor results of any soil or water tests.

I'm not sure if there's any reason for "concern", but this article doesn't confirm it.
imagine if hail was a thing in SA... oh wait

thousands of acres of panels destroyed... just ignore that detail
I was geo-blocked from seeing if the farm might still be generating electricity. I could not find any official information online to suggest that hail-damaged panels leak dangerous chemicals such as cadmium, lead and polyvinyl chloride into the groundwater. I've never heard announcements not to drink rainwater from house roofs with hail-damaged panels. I've not heard news reports of widespread blackouts in Texas due to damaged farms. I don't consider serious conversations between the operator and its insurance company as a cause for community concern.
I saw Fox and thought lol. No doubt confirmed by the Daily Mail. No doubt sandwiched between articles on Harry and Meghan and Brexit benefits. Now, it probably happened, but I wouldn't trust whatever spin they put on it.

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#1534 Post by Algernon » Wed Mar 27, 2024 6:13 pm

Screenshot_2024-03-27-08-34-39-225_com.android.chrome-edit.jpg
So anyway.

Stage 1 under construction 400MW of wind). Final delivery of turbines on site by about September.

Stage 2 is 600MW wind and 600MW solar. But the game changer is a battery delivering 900MWh for 2 hours at a time.

Say whatever the fuck you want. Do whatever the fuck you want.

This project is UC and SA is going to annihilate 100% net renewables.

Just the 400MW stage 1 without a battery will take SA from about 70% to 80% alone.

If Rupert riled you up that much, then fuck off to Robertstown. Plenty of poles to chain yourself to. Apparently you fucking live there, chop chop.

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#1535 Post by SBD » Wed Mar 27, 2024 6:43 pm

abc wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:45 pm
nothing to see here

Image
I clearly didn't dispute that it was damaged at all -
I don't consider serious conversations between the operator and its insurance company as a cause for community concern.
I have not found reports of widespread blackouts followed by removing the mothballs from old coal/oil burners.

It took a while to find the "Fighting 'J's" website as it's called "Fighting Jays". The solar farm in question appears to be a joint venture of two private investment companies. I was hoping at least one would have continuous disclosure obligations to report the financial and environmental consequences, but they don't.

The FAQ includes:
What if there is a huge hailstorm or some other devastating event?

Insurance policies will be in place to cover catastrophic events.

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#1536 Post by abc » Wed Mar 27, 2024 7:41 pm

SBD wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2024 6:43 pm
abc wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:45 pm
nothing to see here

Image
I clearly didn't dispute that it was damaged at all -
I don't consider serious conversations between the operator and its insurance company as a cause for community concern.
I have not found reports of widespread blackouts followed by removing the mothballs from old coal/oil burners.

It took a while to find the "Fighting 'J's" website as it's called "Fighting Jays". The solar farm in question appears to be a joint venture of two private investment companies. I was hoping at least one would have continuous disclosure obligations to report the financial and environmental consequences, but they don't.

The FAQ includes:
What if there is a huge hailstorm or some other devastating event?

Insurance policies will be in place to cover catastrophic events.
now what have we learned today students?

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#1537 Post by Algernon » Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:09 pm

That being dictated to by "foreigners" is ok by you if you're from Bumfuck, Texas?

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#1538 Post by SouthAussie94 » Wed Mar 27, 2024 10:12 pm

Algernon wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2024 6:13 pm
Screenshot_2024-03-27-08-34-39-225_com.android.chrome-edit.jpg

So anyway.

Stage 1 under construction 400MW of wind). Final delivery of turbines on site by about September.

Stage 2 is 600MW wind and 600MW solar. But the game changer is a battery delivering 900MWh for 2 hours at a time.

Say whatever the fuck you want. Do whatever the fuck you want.

This project is UC and SA is going to annihilate 100% net renewables.

Just the 400MW stage 1 without a battery will take SA from about 70% to 80% alone.

If Rupert riled you up that much, then fuck off to Robertstown. Plenty of poles to chain yourself to. Apparently you fucking live there, chop chop.
Final delivery will probably be early next year in reality, although all turbine pieces have arrived and are sitting at Port Adelaide.
"All we are is bags of bones pushing against a self imposed tide. Just be content with staying alive"

Views and opinions expressed are my own and don't necessarily reflect the views or opinions of any organisation of which I have an affiliation

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#1539 Post by Nort » Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:07 am

Algernon wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2024 6:13 pm
Screenshot_2024-03-27-08-34-39-225_com.android.chrome-edit.jpg

So anyway.

Stage 1 under construction 400MW of wind). Final delivery of turbines on site by about September.

Stage 2 is 600MW wind and 600MW solar. But the game changer is a battery delivering 900MWh for 2 hours at a time.

Say whatever the fuck you want. Do whatever the fuck you want.

This project is UC and SA is going to annihilate 100% net renewables.

Just the 400MW stage 1 without a battery will take SA from about 70% to 80% alone.

If Rupert riled you up that much, then fuck off to Robertstown. Plenty of poles to chain yourself to. Apparently you fucking live there, chop chop.
Great development!

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#1540 Post by PeFe » Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:19 am

Gas plant to pay a fine for failing to be available during high demand period back in 2017.

From Renew Economy
Gas plant owner hit with big fine for sitting idle in major blackout first blamed on renewables

Image

The owners of the largest gas plant in South Australia have been hit with a heavy fine for their role it played in a major blackout in the state in early 2017, when it sat idle and failed to comply with market rules.

The Federal Court, which ruled last year that Pelican Point Power Limited (Pelican Point) – majority owned by France’s Engie – was guilty of breaching the rules of the National Electricity Market, must pay a pecuniary penalty of $900,000.

The case was brought to the Federal Court in 2019 after the owners of the Pelican Point plant refused to pay an infringement notice applied by the Australian Energy Regulator, also for failing to comply with market rules.

The blackouts in early February, 2017, came less than five months after the state-wide system black in late September, 2016, an event that triggered an intense anti-renewable campaign by conservatives that continues today.

The state-wide blackout was blamed on renewables, but the market operator and regulators have made clear it was caused not by the failure of wind energy, but by the tearing down of multiple transmission lines in the storms, poor grid management and incorrect software settings that have since been rectified.

The 2017 rolling blackouts were also blamed on renewables, although it became clear very quickly that this was a stuff up of major proportions, with incorrect settings by the local network owner that caused tens of thousands of homes to have their power cut off when not needed, and because Pelican Point was never switched on.

The 485 MW Pelican Point facility sat idle during the whole event, despite the fact that its capacity would have easily filled the supply gap that occurred in the middle of a heatwave.

The AER said in a statement on Wednesday that the Federal Court found that Pelican Point breached the Rules by failing to promptly notify AEMO that the medium term availability information previously submitted for the power station had increased.

In his judgment, Justice Besanko said: “t must be acknowledged and taken into account that the nature of the obligations breached are important and are intended to enable AEMO to manage the reliability of the power system.”

AER chair Clare Savage said she welcomed the Court’s decision following Court proceedings, which had commenced in 2019 after the non-payment of an infringement notice issued by the AER.

She said the provision of accurate and timely availability information is key to AEMO’s management of the power system and to ensure safe and reliable power supply to consumers.

“The outcome is a timely reminder of the important overarching obligation to notify AEMO of any changes to submitted information and has broad applicability for a range of participants.

“It is not a matter of set and forget when it comes to information submitted to AEMO – participants must continually monitor market conditions, plant capabilities and other relevant factors and notify AEMO promptly of relevant changes.

The penalty comes as the AER continues to focus on power system security as part of its Compliance and Enforcement Priorities 2023-24. This has included fines against several wind farms, gas plants and big battery facilities for their failures in various blackouts and other incidents in South Australia and Queensland.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/gas-plant-o ... enewables/

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#1541 Post by abc » Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:01 pm

PeFe wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:19 am
Gas plant to pay a fine for failing to be available during high demand period back in 2017.

From Renew Economy
Gas plant owner hit with big fine for sitting idle in major blackout first blamed on renewables

Image

The owners of the largest gas plant in South Australia have been hit with a heavy fine for their role it played in a major blackout in the state in early 2017, when it sat idle and failed to comply with market rules.

The Federal Court, which ruled last year that Pelican Point Power Limited (Pelican Point) – majority owned by France’s Engie – was guilty of breaching the rules of the National Electricity Market, must pay a pecuniary penalty of $900,000.

The case was brought to the Federal Court in 2019 after the owners of the Pelican Point plant refused to pay an infringement notice applied by the Australian Energy Regulator, also for failing to comply with market rules.

The blackouts in early February, 2017, came less than five months after the state-wide system black in late September, 2016, an event that triggered an intense anti-renewable campaign by conservatives that continues today.

The state-wide blackout was blamed on renewables, but the market operator and regulators have made clear it was caused not by the failure of wind energy, but by the tearing down of multiple transmission lines in the storms, poor grid management and incorrect software settings that have since been rectified.

The 2017 rolling blackouts were also blamed on renewables, although it became clear very quickly that this was a stuff up of major proportions, with incorrect settings by the local network owner that caused tens of thousands of homes to have their power cut off when not needed, and because Pelican Point was never switched on.

The 485 MW Pelican Point facility sat idle during the whole event, despite the fact that its capacity would have easily filled the supply gap that occurred in the middle of a heatwave.

The AER said in a statement on Wednesday that the Federal Court found that Pelican Point breached the Rules by failing to promptly notify AEMO that the medium term availability information previously submitted for the power station had increased.

In his judgment, Justice Besanko said: “t must be acknowledged and taken into account that the nature of the obligations breached are important and are intended to enable AEMO to manage the reliability of the power system.”

AER chair Clare Savage said she welcomed the Court’s decision following Court proceedings, which had commenced in 2019 after the non-payment of an infringement notice issued by the AER.

She said the provision of accurate and timely availability information is key to AEMO’s management of the power system and to ensure safe and reliable power supply to consumers.

“The outcome is a timely reminder of the important overarching obligation to notify AEMO of any changes to submitted information and has broad applicability for a range of participants.

“It is not a matter of set and forget when it comes to information submitted to AEMO – participants must continually monitor market conditions, plant capabilities and other relevant factors and notify AEMO promptly of relevant changes.

The penalty comes as the AER continues to focus on power system security as part of its Compliance and Enforcement Priorities 2023-24. This has included fines against several wind farms, gas plants and big battery facilities for their failures in various blackouts and other incidents in South Australia and Queensland.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/gas-plant-o ... enewables/


"this was a stuff up" is not exactly journalistic language but then I realised this publication came from "Renew Economy" blog. Their editorial license put a spin on the unrelated facts in the article to slant it in a way to indicate there was no fault of renewables.

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#1542 Post by rubberman » Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:14 pm

abc wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:01 pm
PeFe wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:19 am
Gas plant to pay a fine for failing to be available during high demand period back in 2017.

From Renew Economy
"this was a stuff up" is not exactly journalistic language but then I realised this publication came from "Renew Economy" blog. Their editorial license put a spin on the unrelated facts in the article to slant it in a way to indicate there was no fault of renewables.
Yeah. Renewables caused the structural failure of the interconnector and forced Pelican Point to shirk its responsibilities. :hilarious:


Please explain.

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#1543 Post by abc » Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:43 pm

rubberman wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:14 pm
abc wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:01 pm
PeFe wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:19 am
Gas plant to pay a fine for failing to be available during high demand period back in 2017.

From Renew Economy

"this was a stuff up" is not exactly journalistic language but then I realised this publication came from "Renew Economy" blog. Their editorial license put a spin on the unrelated facts in the article to slant it in a way to indicate there was no fault of renewables.
Yeah. Renewables caused the structural failure of the interconnector and forced Pelican Point to shirk its responsibilities. :hilarious:


Please explain.
imagine 'Renewables' relying on fossil fuel in a black out.

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#1544 Post by rubberman » Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:59 pm

abc wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:43 pm
rubberman wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:14 pm
abc wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:01 pm


"this was a stuff up" is not exactly journalistic language but then I realised this publication came from "Renew Economy" blog. Their editorial license put a spin on the unrelated facts in the article to slant it in a way to indicate there was no fault of renewables.
Yeah. Renewables caused the structural failure of the interconnector and forced Pelican Point to shirk its responsibilities. :hilarious:


Please explain.
imagine 'Renewables' relying on fossil fuel in a black out.
Since nobody was claiming that renewables, in 2017...or today, could completely take over 100% of system capacity, one might just as easily say: "Imagine, people thinking fossil fuels are reliable."

Now, as renewables keep increasing market share, and get to 100%, that might become a reasonable question. Hardly relevant to the present discussion.

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Re: News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

#1545 Post by PD2/20 » Thu Mar 28, 2024 2:16 pm

rubberman wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:59 pm
abc wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:43 pm
rubberman wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:14 pm


Yeah. Renewables caused the structural failure of the interconnector and forced Pelican Point to shirk its responsibilities. :hilarious:


Please explain.
imagine 'Renewables' relying on fossil fuel in a black out.
Since nobody was claiming that renewables, in 2017...or today, could completely take over 100% of system capacity, one might just as easily say: "Imagine, people thinking fossil fuels are reliable."

Now, as renewables keep increasing market share, and get to 100%, that might become a reasonable question. Hardly relevant to the present discussion.
The AEMO report on the SA system event on February 8th 2017 is at https://aemo.com.au/-/media/files/elect ... 3B371773ED.

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