News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

[SRW]

Climate Council has released a state scoreboard for clean transport. South Australia is at the back of the pack, largely due to our much lower levels of active and public transport. For SA to continue to claim the mantle as a climate change leader leader (due to our energy sector) we need also plan for clean transport.

Report here: https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/resou ... rritories/

I think the easiest wins would be increasing active transport (cycling and walking should be far easier in our mostly flat and pleasant weather city) and electrifying public and private fleets. Lifting public transport use will likely take larger and longer investments.

[Spotto]

Tom Koutsantonis posted about the Grange train overshoot on his Facebook page. He seems certain that the contract with Keolis Downer will be torn up in this term.

[rubberman]

Climate Council has released a state scoreboard for clean transport. South Australia is at the back of the pack, largely due to our much lower levels of active and public transport. For SA to continue to claim the mantle as a climate change leader leader (due to our energy sector) we need also plan for clean transport.

Report here: https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/resou ... rritories/

I think the easiest wins would be increasing active transport (cycling and walking should be far easier in our mostly flat and pleasant weather city) and electrifying public and private fleets. Lifting public transport use will likely take larger and longer investments.

There's been a lot of work done on this in Europe. They've tried full battery buses as well as trolleybuses with no batteries and trolleybuses with smaller batteries for limited travel without wires. So, there's a lot of information out there.

Prague, for example, has decided on trolleybuses with smaller batteries to replace much of its diesel bus fleet. The smaller batteries allow wire free operation in visually sensitive areas and to avoid expensive overhead wiring junctions. The overhead wire operation allows those smaller batteries to charge on the run, so no delays at termini, and the smaller batteries reduce the bus weight, allowing more passengers. Prague has already finished its experimental phase, and has commissioned its first permanent line.

This style of operation also makes more use of solar energy, since rather than charge at night, charging is during the day when the bulk of operation (including both peak hours) occurs.

For a general idea.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybuses_in_Prague

The Wikipedia page is out of date - as per the official PT site, they are running now.

https://pid.cz/jizdni-rady-podle-linek/trolejbusy/

[SRW]

Climate Council has released a state scoreboard for clean transport. South Australia is at the back of the pack, largely due to our much lower levels of active and public transport. For SA to continue to claim the mantle as a climate change leader leader (due to our energy sector) we need also plan for clean transport.

Report here: https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/resou ... rritories/

I think the easiest wins would be increasing active transport (cycling and walking should be far easier in our mostly flat and pleasant weather city) and electrifying public and private fleets. Lifting public transport use will likely take larger and longer investments.

There's been a lot of work done on this in Europe. They've tried full battery buses as well as trolleybuses with no batteries and trolleybuses with smaller batteries for limited travel without wires. So, there's a lot of information out there.

Prague, for example, has decided on trolleybuses with smaller batteries to replace much of its diesel bus fleet. The smaller batteries allow wire free operation in visually sensitive areas and to avoid expensive overhead wiring junctions. The overhead wire operation allows those smaller batteries to charge on the run, so no delays at termini, and the smaller batteries reduce the bus weight, allowing more passengers. Prague has already finished its experimental phase, and has commissioned its first permanent line.

This style of operation also makes more use of solar energy, since rather than charge at night, charging is during the day when the bulk of operation (including both peak hours) occurs.

For a general idea.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybuses_in_Prague

The Wikipedia page is out of date - as per the official PT site, they are running now.

https://pid.cz/jizdni-rady-podle-linek/trolejbusy/

I know the state gov has committed to purchasing no more diesal buses but to my knowledge has not set a date to convert the full fleet to electric. This could be achieved by 2035 or earlier.

I think there may be an argument for trolley buses on the O-Bahn (it should have been from the start) but I think battery tech will probably outclass for all other routes. Meanwhile, electrify Outer Harbor yesterday (without reopening argument about light vs heavy).

[ChillyPhilly]

It's a pipe dream, but the Grange line should be extended southward and even eastward, with stops at Henley Beach, West Beach and the Airport. It could then link back to existing rail around Mile End with other stops along the way, completing a nice western rail loop. It would have to be largely underground, which is an engineering challenge close to the coast.

This would make the argument for electrifying the OH and Grange line that much easier!

[rubberman]

Climate Council has released a state scoreboard for clean transport. South Australia is at the back of the pack, largely due to our much lower levels of active and public transport. For SA to continue to claim the mantle as a climate change leader leader (due to our energy sector) we need also plan for clean transport.

Report here: https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/resou ... rritories/

I think the easiest wins would be increasing active transport (cycling and walking should be far easier in our mostly flat and pleasant weather city) and electrifying public and private fleets. Lifting public transport use will likely take larger and longer investments.

There's been a lot of work done on this in Europe. They've tried full battery buses as well as trolleybuses with no batteries and trolleybuses with smaller batteries for limited travel without wires. So, there's a lot of information out there.

Prague, for example, has decided on trolleybuses with smaller batteries to replace much of its diesel bus fleet. The smaller batteries allow wire free operation in visually sensitive areas and to avoid expensive overhead wiring junctions. The overhead wire operation allows those smaller batteries to charge on the run, so no delays at termini, and the smaller batteries reduce the bus weight, allowing more passengers. Prague has already finished its experimental phase, and has commissioned its first permanent line.

This style of operation also makes more use of solar energy, since rather than charge at night, charging is during the day when the bulk of operation (including both peak hours) occurs.

For a general idea.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybuses_in_Prague

The Wikipedia page is out of date - as per the official PT site, they are running now.

https://pid.cz/jizdni-rady-podle-linek/trolejbusy/

I know the state gov has committed to purchasing no more diesal buses but to my knowledge has not set a date to convert the full fleet to electric. This could be achieved by 2035 or earlier.

I think there may be an argument for trolley buses on the O-Bahn (it should have been from the start) but I think battery tech will probably outclass for all other routes. Meanwhile, electrify Outer Harbor yesterday (without reopening argument about light vs heavy).

Battery tech doesn't outclass others at the moment because it either takes up too much room vs trolleybus/small Battery, or it requires 20-30 mins charging at termini.

However, I bet you are right, and the State Government will buy 100% Battery buses despite all the technical trials having been done showing otherwise. I mean they bought Citadis trams, didn't they!

[cocoiadrop]

Strike action for TT drivers on the table over Christmas/NY https://indaily.com.au/news/2022/12/01/ ... -christmas

[Brucetiki]

Strike action for TT drivers on the table over Christmas/NY https://indaily.com.au/news/2022/12/01/ ... -christmas

Given how unreliable Torrens Transit services are (not to mention how dangerous some of their drivers drive), the drivers aren’t really in a position to be calling strike action.

[MT269]

Dwelling and travelling below the speed limit are annoying yes, but as a commuter I'm also happy knowing a service is more likely to stick to a timetable I can rely on, rather than depart early without me, late, or not at all.

In the age of GPS a lot of people can see when the bus will arrive and time it to arrive at the stop just before it arrives anyway.

The problem lies with daytime timetables. There is a huge contrast between daylight and the night time schedules. I have heard a driver or two mention about the issues associated with having to brake suddenly from speeds above about 55kph. On the 228 route where there is an 80kph speed limit, you need to be particularly alert of everything that is going on. There are also a small number of drivers who are religious about doing the speed limit at all times.

I don't care the slightest about the CEOs and their pockets. A driver doing 40kph along a straight stretch of open road surely is not the best way to market PT. One could think that the old MAN NLs don't portray the best image. But they are way less uncomfortable and dull than the Scanias.

There are timepoints that are way too close on many routes. The 178 is an example of this. And since early 2020, it has become one of the services with the lowest average speeds, due to the 50% patronage reduction. Typical pollies/companies putting themselves ahead of the customers.

It would probably help if the North Tce traffic lights for east-west actually remained green for more than 5 seconds as well. Lately at around 6.30PM and onwards, it has taken 25 minutes to get from stop R1 North Tce to C2 KW St in a bus, due to the pollies belief that red lights enable a better traffic flow. This is also a predicament with Henley Beach and South Rd in peak hour, but mainly when heading east. It can take 6 cycles to get through.

[cocoiadrop]

Union members in TT have voted 95% majority for industrial action starting Xmas Eve. Appears to be starting with uniform bans and may move to stoppages if there is no progress with TT.

[ChillyPhilly]

Keolis Downer really suck.

Services on the Seaford line have become a bit of a mess with sticking to timetable, along with ARS arrival and departure.

Looking forward to that contract going in the bin.

[SBD]

Keolis Downer really suck.

Services on the Seaford line have become a bit of a mess with sticking to timetable, along with ARS arrival and departure.

Looking forward to that contract going in the bin.

For a former union organiser, Mr Malinauskas is being very gentle in choosing his words about the striking bus drivers. My guess is they are on pay and conditions that would not be acceptable if the bus contracts ended and came back into government hands. He doesn't want to push what TT should pay its workers in case he has to stump up and pay them directly instead of screwing down TT then blaming TT for shafting the workers.

[PeFe]

Article from In Daily discussing Adelaide public transport.

Usual "guff".....fix broken public transport....roll back privatisation (even though nothing has been "privatised"...outsourcing of management is a total different beast to privatisation)

I am yet to hear how the return of managing the buses and trains etc to the public sector will "improve" public transport in Adelaide.

Can Koutsantonis fix Adelaide's public transport?

On-demand buses in Adelaide’s suburbs, unravelling privatisation, “tap and go” payment on all services – Transport Minister Tom Koutsantonis insists he has a big public transport agenda for the city. But can it be delivered and, if so, when?



Public transport is in trouble in Adelaide.

Passenger numbers have plummeted through the pandemic years and, despite restrictions being lifted, the latest statistics show it will take something out of the ordinary for patronage to return to anywhere near where it once was.

Data provided to InDaily by the Department for Infrastructure and Transport shows that while patronage improved in the second half of 2022 – from 130,000 people using Adelaide Metro services each weekday in February, to about 180,000, early this year – it still represents a 24 per cent drop across the network compared to pre-COVID levels.

A quarter of public transport users have disappeared from the system since early 2020 and South Australians will need patience before they see many significant changes to their services.

Minister Tom Koutsantonis tells InDaily he has a plan to fix this decline, but he’s taking a longer view on when the key elements will be delivered.

He has history in the portfolio: he was Transport Minister for a time during the Weatherill era but, oddly, didn’t have primary responsibility for public transport. That fell to Transport Services Minister Chloe Fox in a portfolio divide that he now says was a mistake.

“I thought there was a big disconnect when that occurred – I thought that was a mistake separating those portfolios out,” he told InDaily in an interview at his city office.

“I’ve been thinking a lot about public transport and how to improve it.”

Despite Adelaide’s record as one of the most car-centric capital cities in Australia, Koutsantonis believes the city is prepared to pay for the investment needed to produce a public transport system that is “quick, efficient, safe and clean”.


The new Government is promising to kill the ‘privatisation’ of trains and trams – but it hasn’t pulled it off yet.

His plan for improving all of these measures begins with unravelling the private management of the system including, he says, a close look at whether the government can unpick the decades-old privatisation of the bus system.

First, though, is Labor’s election promise to cancel the previous Government’s contract with transport giant Keolis Downer to manage Adelaide’s passenger trains. The trams were also privatised under the Marshall government in 2020, and are run by the Torrens Connect consortium, with an eight-year contract connected to a bus contract.

“So the first priority is I’ve got returning trains and trams, getting (them) back into back into (government) control,” Koutsantonis told InDaily. “And then dealing with the public transport system as one organism rather than separate streams, which are all dealt with almost in silos. And how do you actually then grow the patronage?”

In Opposition, Labor promised an inquiry within 100 days about returning the rail services to public hands. That’s morphed into a protracted negotiation, with the head of Koutsantonis’s department last year saying that the Government didn’t necessarily need to break the contract to end the arrangement.

Koutsantonis isn’t giving too much away about the status of the protracted negotiations, but says they “are going exceptionally well” and insists the services will be returned to public management, without any payment of compensation.

A Departmental investigation of the whole issue, including the far trickier proposition of unpicking the bus privatisation which dates back to the turn of the century, will be delivered to the Minister “in the first half of this year”, according to his office.

The current bus operators are only three years into eight-year contracts (with options for a two-year extension), but Koutsantonis appears to believe fervently that these services, too, should and can be back placed in public hands. In relation to buses, that seems an unlikely prospect, but he rejects arguments that private management has led to better services and efficiencies.

“The value of the service we pay implies there’s a profit gap, right, that the proponents who are running our services are making for their investors,” he says. “That could be in between as much as $5 million to $15 million or $20 million a year.”

Curiously, the one legacy of the previous Government’s public transport agenda that Koutsantonis is keen to expand involves a privately-managed service – the Keoride on-demand buses being trialled in the Adelaide Hills and the Barossa.

The smaller buses, run by current train operator and Hills bus contractor Keolis Downer, can be ordered on-demand via an app in the growth areas they serve.

Koutsantonis would like to see the service expanded beyond outer metropolitan areas to the suburbs of Adelaide.

“I think it’s worked exceptionally well,” he said. “I reckon there’s potential for us to do more of that… Where can we expand that in metropolitan Adelaide? These are the questions that the department are trying to solve for me, as we speak.”

Empty buses in non-peak times are one of his bugbears and he believes on-demand services can help fix that.

“A modern public transport system needs to do a lot of things, but what it can’t do is move air around, which is what we’re doing.”

Koutsantonis isn’t giving too much away about the status of the protracted negotiations, but says they “are going exceptionally well” and insists the services will be returned to public management, without any payment of compensation.

A Departmental investigation of the whole issue, including the far trickier proposition of unpicking the bus privatisation which dates back to the turn of the century, will be delivered to the Minister “in the first half of this year”, according to his office.

The current bus operators are only three years into eight-year contracts (with options for a two-year extension), but Koutsantonis appears to believe fervently that these services, too, should and can be back placed in public hands. In relation to buses, that seems an unlikely prospect, but he rejects arguments that private management has led to better services and efficiencies.

“The value of the service we pay implies there’s a profit gap, right, that the proponents who are running our services are making for their investors,” he says. “That could be in between as much as $5 million to $15 million or $20 million a year.”

Curiously, the one legacy of the previous Government’s public transport agenda that Koutsantonis is keen to expand involves a privately-managed service – the Keoride on-demand buses being trialled in the Adelaide Hills and the Barossa.

The smaller buses, run by current train operator and Hills bus contractor Keolis Downer, can be ordered on-demand via an app in the growth areas they serve.

Koutsantonis would like to see the service expanded beyond outer metropolitan areas to the suburbs of Adelaide.

“I think it’s worked exceptionally well,” he said. “I reckon there’s potential for us to do more of that… Where can we expand that in metropolitan Adelaide? These are the questions that the department are trying to solve for me, as we speak.”

Empty buses in non-peak times are one of his bugbears and he believes on-demand services can help fix that.

“A modern public transport system needs to do a lot of things, but what it can’t do is move air around, which is what we’re doing.”


We can’t “move air around” with empty buses in non-peak times, says Tom Koutsantonis. Photo: Tony Lewis/InDaily

Beyond that, though, the Minister’s vision is incremental, but he’s convinced the whole of his vision is greater than the sum of its parts, and begins with basics like smarter stop positioning, improved quality of buses, easier ticketing, simpler timetables, more bus priority measures to ensure speedier journeys, and improved safety.

“My thinking is – we bring trains and trams back, and start looking at what is the value proposition for someone who wants to catch public transport into the city. How far will someone walk or drive to catch a train? How far will someone walk or drive to catch a tram? How far will someone walk or drive to catch a bus? Why is it that trams and trains and the O-Bahn are more popular than your normal bus services that operate on roads? I think the answer is pretty obvious: it’s that dedicated lines are quicker. I don’t have a fixed view, but we’ve got to work out a way of moving buses a lot faster through very congested pieces of road.”

Interestingly for someone who has presided over a review of the North-South corridor road project which has seen the cost of the final section blow out to a huge $15.6 billion, the Minister believes public transport provides much more bang for buck than road projects.

He says “it’s an economic no-brainer to start investing more heavily in public transport”.

Yet, despite that, he’s not promising any significant investment in the short term.

Expanding the tram network, for example, is off the agenda.

“We took (the tram expansion) to the election… but that was comprehensively rejected by the public. I think the public liked the idea of trams – they don’t necessarily want to pay for the rollout and it would be a very expensive exercise.” Also, he reckons voters “won’t come at the tram line extensions because of the inconvenience they believe it causes them while they’re driving”.

Chicken and egg.

So what is the Malinauskas Government prepared to do to increase patronage on the public transport system?

For a start, Koutsantonis wants to fix what he sees are inefficiencies and annoyances in the network, particularly the bus system.

“Simplification of the entire system”, including Adelaide Metro timetables, and a more streamlined user experience generally, is front and centre.

“I mean, I go to the Adelaide Metro website and try and find route maps. For buses, it’s not easy. It’s not an easy system to use.”

He also believes a simpler payment system is also a no-brainer, with his aim to expand “tap and go” trials to all public transport services.

“We’ve got this terrible system, where you’ve got to go charge an Adelaide Metrocard to get on a bus. And it just doesn’t work properly. So this tap and go would change a lot of that.”

Any one piece of major infrastructure on a road network would exceed that entire operational cost of the public transport service. So it makes sense to have people catching public transport

“Tap and pay” with a credit card is available on O-Bahn and tram services, but Koutsantonis wants it rolled out across the whole system, with smart technology built in so it can recognise and reward regular users.

He’s even pondering radical steps such as having the reader outside the bus: tap your card and the doors open. A move to allow people to enter the bus by the centre door has made the system quicker, but it’s also increased fare evasion, something he’s keen to reduce.

“We’ve got to work out a way of getting people paying for the tickets, getting on a bus and getting on and off quickly without compromising amenity and speed,” he said.

“So this is what I’ve asked the department to go away and look at. I want them to come up with a system where if I’ve never caught public transport before in my life, I can look at an app and easily understand where I have to go, what bus train or tram I need to get on to go to where I want to go, without having to go forward and fill in four forms in triplicate, get an Adelaide Metro card, whatever it might be.”

Cleaner buses, inside and for the environment, are also part of the vision.

“If you drive around the city in the middle of the day, our buses are very loud, noisy and don’t produce a good level of amenity in the CBD.

“Electrification of these services is potentially a game-changer. We won’t buy any more diesel buses ever again: from now it’s either hybrid or electric or hydrogen fuel cell.”

But the open question is when passengers will see any of these changes.

Koutsantonis told InDaily there was not likely to be any significant new spending on public transport in the next year.

“Not necessarily in this upcoming budget, but over the life of the government absolutely,” he said.

He is adamant, though, that Adelaide’s public transport system won’t enter what transport planners call a death spiral: where falling patronage leads to dropping public investment, which further drives down passenger numbers.

“No, we want to grow it. Any one piece of major infrastructure on a road network would exceed that entire operational cost of the public transport service. So it makes sense to have people catching public transport.”

He quickly adds that that doesn’t mean road projects will no longer be funded, nor does he see any policy setting to coerce the public onto buses, trains and trams.

“The only way it’s going to work is if we offer them a quick, clean, good service that saves them money.

“In metropolitan Adelaide, there’s a big opportunity for us to dramatically increase patronage, because from the reports I’ve seen – you know, given the way modern insurance charging works, given the cost of fuel, cost of car parking – it is economic to catch public transport.

“But we’re not making the case well enough. And there are a number of reasons. It could be amenity – people in their cars stuck in traffic alongside the same bus that’s stuck in traffic. They’re thinking: I could be on that bus or in my car – so they choose their car. Are the routes frequent enough, or bus stops close enough? Are the stops good enough? So there needs to be a holistic approach to how do we improve all these services.”

Most of these questions are still open in his mind, awaiting department advice and investigation.

The question is: what state will the system be in by the time any changes happen?

[Saltwater]

That's a lot of words to say they don't really have any plans, other than maybe rolling out Visa and Mastercard more widely

[cocoiadrop]

The rollout of debit card payments on the O-Bahn, in my anecdotal experience, is already a disaster. Every time I see someone attempt to use it (bar one) the machine rejects their card.

"On demand" buses in the suburbs is also another gadgetbahn tier project. Just improve the base service and see the benefits.

In regards to privatisation of operation, this is a very good point that I discussed in a political forum recently. Bringing buses/trains/trams into public operation still isn't going to change that the service is operated on the same contract DIT currently gives to the private operators. In the current system there's no reason for operators to innovate, and without some initiative from DIT it will be much the same in public hands. SAPTA won't do much either, they're a sitting duck with no funding.