Re: SA - Nuclear Future
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:27 pm
You know what I'm going to say don't you?rev wrote:...Why can't there be a centrist party that takes the good from both and combines them into one policy platform?
Adelaide's Premier Development and Construction Site
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You know what I'm going to say don't you?rev wrote:...Why can't there be a centrist party that takes the good from both and combines them into one policy platform?
monotonehell wrote:You know what I'm going to say don't you?rev wrote:...Why can't there be a centrist party that takes the good from both and combines them into one policy platform?
Reprocessing of waste is a process that has been attempted since the 1970s. It still isn't a viable process and the economics mean the costs are out of the reach of the market. (That is reprocessed fuel would cost around twice as much as 'new' fuel.)rev wrote:...Why would you not reprocess whatever nuclear waste you possibly could, so it could be then sold again as fuel for reactors? Why are we also not going to process our uranium before selling it to other countries?
Instead of just selling them raw uranium, we should process it for them, at a cost, and then sell it to them. It would bring in more money, but it would also limit the potential that our uranium can be used for nuclear weapons development.
Particularly since we are supplying India with uranium, and they have an active nuclear weapons program.
Bingo. Exactly what commentators said would happen when the commission was established.rev wrote:...I feel as if..this whole inquiry into it, was simply to give a preliminary green light for a nuclear waste dump in SA, with the purpose of winning public support by dangling a carrot of $450 billion(over 70 years) in front of a state that is economically struggling with more bad news coming over the next two-three years on the jobs front.
The facility will cost around $51bil NPV to construct over 30 years. It would generate around $6bil a year for the first 30 years $180bil .rev wrote:Wasn't aware it wasn't viable economically or that processing here to begin with wasn't viable, admittedly haven't looked that deep into all this.
The figure annually would be about 6.4 billion.
Now is that set in stone? Is the SA government going to receive 6.4 billion annually?
Or is a lions share going to go to a private operator of the dump facility and SA will get some crumbs out of it?
* The commission found that the ore processing market is already oversupplied - there's no money in the market.claybro wrote:these figures I presume are just based on a dump alone? What if it was part of a much bigger industry. Instead of just sending off the raw material, why cant we make it into fuel rods? why cant we build our own nuclear power plant? why cant we repurpose the spent rods on their return? The construction and associated infrastructure alone, roads, hi tech construction etc, surely this would add significantly to the economics. The nuclear industry is well established world wide (despite a few accidents along the way), India and China are building new generation nuclear power plants by the dozens... surely if the economics where as poor as suggested, it would not have survived and apparently thrived so far. There must be something, as one of the worlds leading supplier of this fuel we can do to cash in on this industry.
So the South Australian government wouldn't be receiving 6 billion a year, like has basically been presented in the media.monotonehell wrote:The facility will cost around $51bil NPV to construct over 30 years. It would generate around $6bil a year for the first 30 years $180bil .rev wrote:Wasn't aware it wasn't viable economically or that processing here to begin with wasn't viable, admittedly haven't looked that deep into all this.
The figure annually would be about 6.4 billion.
Now is that set in stone? Is the SA government going to receive 6.4 billion annually?
Or is a lions share going to go to a private operator of the dump facility and SA will get some crumbs out of it?
The bigger problem is that money cannot be spent. The facility and its 500 odd jobs have to be maintained pretty much forever. In the Royal Commission’s words, “...requires isolation from the environment for many hundreds of thousands of years”.
That would require an upfront investment of around $27bil NPV.
So that's $78bil upfront (Not paid by government, but by promissory from entities interested in utilising the dump.)
$6bil a year cash flows (Again this is into the venture, not into the State. Where does the State benefit? Taxes? Levies? This hasn't been specified.)
Using the Commission's discount rate of 4% (See below) over 30 years...
That's a NPV of $32bil (at the end of the 30 years). Or worth around $1bil a year to the venture. What's the tax on $1bil worth to the State?
rev wrote:So the South Australian government would be receiving 6 billion a year, like has basically been promoted in the media.monotonehell wrote:The facility will cost around $51bil NPV to construct over 30 years. It would generate around $6bil a year for the first 30 years $180bil .rev wrote:Wasn't aware it wasn't viable economically or that processing here to begin with wasn't viable, admittedly haven't looked that deep into all this.
The figure annually would be about 6.4 billion.
Now is that set in stone? Is the SA government going to receive 6.4 billion annually?
Or is a lions share going to go to a private operator of the dump facility and SA will get some crumbs out of it?
The bigger problem is that money cannot be spent. The facility and its 500 odd jobs have to be maintained pretty much forever. In the Royal Commission’s words, “...requires isolation from the environment for many hundreds of thousands of years”.
That would require an upfront investment of around $27bil NPV.
So that's $78bil upfront (Not paid by government, but by promissory from entities interested in utilising the dump.)
$6bil a year cash flows (Again this is into the venture, not into the State. Where does the State benefit? Taxes? Levies? This hasn't been specified.)
Using the Commission's discount rate of 4% (See below) over 30 years...
That's a NPV of $32bil (at the end of the 30 years). Or worth around $1bil a year to the venture. What's the tax on $1bil worth to the State?
A billion dollars a year you say? To turn part of our unique outback landscape into a radiation hell for hundreds of thousands of years? F*** that.
If we are going to do it, there has to be a massive benefit for the state and the people.
And thinking about it now, 6 billion every year wouldn't cut it.
Because our population will grow, the cost of things will increase, but the "royalties" would stay the same, but our outback would still be used by the world to dump their radioactive waste.
I don't care who pays for the facility. Unless our state sees a massive benefit from it, then you know where they can put their nuclear waste as far as I'm concerned.
Ah, globalization..from destroying our industries, to turning our outback into a nuclear waste dump.
There's a person in the photo with no protective gear on, and they don't always bury it undergroundrev wrote:If you think it's so safe, take a trip there and walk through there without any protective clothing or breathing apparatus.
We can crowd fund right here on S-A to pay for your trip, and you can tell them it's for research/investigative purposes for a possible dump site in SA.
Take lots of photos and videos of you walking through the facility without protective clothing, and then feel free to make all the claims you want that it's safe.
But if it's so safe, why is it buried deep underground?
Why is nuclear waste put into special containers and transported to such facilities under police escort with roads along the route closed?
Yeh, because it's not safe. Because it's radioactive. Because it's a danger to people and the environment.
Oh look, I see a carrot dangling in front of you..keep chasing it.
GoodSmackUp wrote:There's a person in the photo with no protective gear on, and they don't always bury it undergroundrev wrote:If you think it's so safe, take a trip there and walk through there without any protective clothing or breathing apparatus.
We can crowd fund right here on S-A to pay for your trip, and you can tell them it's for research/investigative purposes for a possible dump site in SA.
Take lots of photos and videos of you walking through the facility without protective clothing, and then feel free to make all the claims you want that it's safe.
But if it's so safe, why is it buried deep underground?
Why is nuclear waste put into special containers and transported to such facilities under police escort with roads along the route closed?
Yeh, because it's not safe. Because it's radioactive. Because it's a danger to people and the environment.
Oh look, I see a carrot dangling in front of you..keep chasing it.
The flight over would give me a higher radiation doserev wrote:GoodSmackUp wrote:There's a person in the photo with no protective gear on, and they don't always bury it undergroundrev wrote:If you think it's so safe, take a trip there and walk through there without any protective clothing or breathing apparatus.
We can crowd fund right here on S-A to pay for your trip, and you can tell them it's for research/investigative purposes for a possible dump site in SA.
Take lots of photos and videos of you walking through the facility without protective clothing, and then feel free to make all the claims you want that it's safe.
But if it's so safe, why is it buried deep underground?
Why is nuclear waste put into special containers and transported to such facilities under police escort with roads along the route closed?
Yeh, because it's not safe. Because it's radioactive. Because it's a danger to people and the environment.
Oh look, I see a carrot dangling in front of you..keep chasing it.
Off you go then, pack your bags and go stand out there with them.
Put your health and future where your mouth is.
thecityguy wrote:I swear most people have the image of a giant hole in the ground, with trucks dumping glowing green waste into it
the more you actually read about this stuff the less scary it is.
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