[PRO] Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

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[Shuz]
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[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#271 Post by [Shuz] » Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:55 am

It's a safe Labor seat, no pork barrelling going on.
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[PRO] [PRO] Re: [PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#272 Post by Waewick » Thu Jun 02, 2022 8:13 am

[Shuz] wrote:It's a safe Labor seat, no pork barrelling going on.
Being a Safe seat doesn't make it not Pork barrelling, but I can call it a rort if you want?

Unless of course we have some sort of independent review of the project that shows us the merit of the development of course, then play on.

I just find it difficult to believe that of all the public transport projects that could be done, this is the best option (or even in the top 20)



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[PRO] Re: [PRO] Re: [PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#273 Post by gnrc_louis » Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:39 pm

Waewick wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 8:13 am
[Shuz] wrote:It's a safe Labor seat, no pork barrelling going on.
Being a Safe seat doesn't make it not Pork barrelling, but I can call it a rort if you want?

Unless of course we have some sort of independent review of the project that shows us the merit of the development of course, then play on.

I just find it difficult to believe that of all the public transport projects that could be done, this is the best option (or even in the top 20)
I'm looking forward to it happening. The Port is really starting to pick up and has serious potential to be a major hub in the North-west. This will make it even more accessible and be great for businesses like Pirate Life.

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[PRO] Re: [PRO] Re: [PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#274 Post by Llessur2002 » Fri Jun 03, 2022 10:35 am

Waewick wrote:
Thu Jun 02, 2022 8:13 am
[Shuz] wrote:It's a safe Labor seat, no pork barrelling going on.
Being a Safe seat doesn't make it not Pork barrelling, but I can call it a rort if you want?

Unless of course we have some sort of independent review of the project that shows us the merit of the development of course, then play on.

I just find it difficult to believe that of all the public transport projects that could be done, this is the best option (or even in the top 20)
I don't know about any business cases which might exist but from a layman's perspective the Port seems to have huge potential to become a significant employment and residential hub over the next few decades - the defence work will help but even without I think it has enough momentum now that will see its growth continues. It's not way out in woop woop like Mount Barker so doesn't require huge infrastructure spend to support a large growth in population or employment. If we're ever going to have a second CBD (not that I'm saying we are) the Port would have to be a prime candidate.

The rejuvenation of the Port is already helping to reduce urban sprawl through existing and planned medium density developments plus it has some great tourism potential as well if the maritime and heritage aspects are managed correctly as has been the case in Fremantle.

Other than perhaps Mount Barker I can't think of another area of SA which can tick so many boxes for warranting a relatively low cost PT project.

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[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#275 Post by rev » Fri Jun 03, 2022 5:24 pm

Apparently the ~$50 million this is going to cost could extend the Seaford line to Aldinga.

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[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#276 Post by [Shuz] » Fri Jun 03, 2022 5:51 pm

Aldinga extension was costed at $800m.
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[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#277 Post by Jaymz » Fri Jun 03, 2022 6:46 pm

I'm not too familiar with that area of our city, but if this spur line is built, would it benefit Outer Harbour for the cruise ship market? That is one area of tourism that SA needs to tap in to.

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[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#278 Post by Norman » Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:37 pm

Jaymz wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 6:46 pm
I'm not too familiar with that area of our city, but if this spur line is built, would it benefit Outer Harbour for the cruise ship market? That is one area of tourism that SA needs to tap in to.
It wouldn't bring any benefits for the cruise ship market. Completely different area.

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[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#279 Post by SRW » Fri Jun 03, 2022 10:05 pm

Norman wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 8:37 pm
Jaymz wrote:
Fri Jun 03, 2022 6:46 pm
I'm not too familiar with that area of our city, but if this spur line is built, would it benefit Outer Harbour for the cruise ship market? That is one area of tourism that SA needs to tap in to.
It wouldn't bring any benefits for the cruise ship market. Completely different area.
Agreed. No trains will run from Outer Harbour to Port Dock. This is a city link. The benefit of which is arguable from 'urban uplift' standpoint more than a public service benefit (at least short term).
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[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#280 Post by eKwatee » Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:13 pm

for $50 million dollars you could probably run express buses from the city to the proposed location for the next 20 years.

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[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#281 Post by Llessur2002 » Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:30 pm

eKwatee wrote:
Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:13 pm
for $50 million dollars you could probably run express buses from the city to the proposed location for the next 20 years.
And they'll attract only half the patronage of the train.

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[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#282 Post by gnrc_louis » Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:54 pm

Llessur2002 wrote:
Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:30 pm
eKwatee wrote:
Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:13 pm
for $50 million dollars you could probably run express buses from the city to the proposed location for the next 20 years.
And they'll attract only half the patronage of the train.
Exactly this. Adelaide has a pretty extensive bus network yet the lowest PT patronage in the nation.

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[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#283 Post by VLtom » Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:23 pm

eKwatee wrote:
Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:13 pm
for $50 million dollars you could probably run express buses from the city to the proposed location for the next 20 years.
There is. It's called the 254X, it runs all day every 30 minutes from Port Adelaide to the CBD running express from Arndale. It is an incredibly bizarre route to run express so frequently and paralleling the OH line anyway. How it has survived for so long escapes me but I would hope Port Dock will finally make it run normally all stops. It's patronage does not justify it's express nature anymore then running say the 118 express would, it's a mildly popular route. People from Port Adelaide should get the train and those north of Arndale aren't really entitled to a go-zone express bus all day to be quite honest.

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[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#284 Post by Eurostar » Sat Jun 04, 2022 11:05 pm

VLtom wrote:
Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:23 pm
eKwatee wrote:
Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:13 pm
for $50 million dollars you could probably run express buses from the city to the proposed location for the next 20 years.
There is. It's called the 254X, it runs all day every 30 minutes from Port Adelaide to the CBD running express from Arndale. It is an incredibly bizarre route to run express so frequently and paralleling the OH line anyway. How it has survived for so long escapes me but I would hope Port Dock will finally make it run normally all stops. It's patronage does not justify it's express nature anymore then running say the 118 express would, it's a mildly popular route. People from Port Adelaide should get the train and those north of Arndale aren't really entitled to a go-zone express bus all day to be quite honest.
Cutting some 254X runs would allow say the 361 run until later which could benefit workers in the Wingfield area especially around by the Grand Junction Road/South Road vicinity

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[PRO] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#285 Post by Waz » Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:47 am

Apologies if any of what I say has been covered already.

For me, the benefit of any spur line (no matter how short) is that you can slightly reduce the frequency of trains that travel the full distance to OH, and reducing the cost of the majority of trips that use the line by means of termination by at a distance just over half what most trains currently travel.

An example would be 40 min instead of 30 for OH, and 40min for Port Adelaide spur. You could obviously be flexible with 1-2 extra peak services. By my estimation, you could achieve this by increasing operating cost by less than 20%, but I'd hazard a guess that a service direct into Port Adelaide, having a shorter duration to OH, and more frequent services along the first half of the line would all exceed that with improved patronage.

You'd achieve one of two things; it would increase services to 20 mins on the first half of the line, OR allow either a shorter duration for OH trips by reducing stops. Station skipping could be achieved by either using an express model that only stops between OH and the Port then express to city, or a reduction of stops by having the two different services stopping at alternating stops.

Either way, I believe what it would do is allow the operator a great deal more flexibility to increase services to where population is more dense without dramatically increasing costs.
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