[U/C] Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

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claybro
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[U/C] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#331 Post by claybro » Wed Jun 28, 2023 4:23 pm

rev wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:34 pm
Why couldn't light rail begin at the Port Duck spur line, and continue around the inner harbour area of Port Adelaide and extend out to Semaphore?
The Port is ideal for apartment buildings and that type of life style. Instead we have a mix of industrial, commercial, run down buildings and a large pocket of low rise detached dwellings. |
Higher density housing, more people, will aide in the revival of the Port, particularly all the old pubs.
It would spur investment in cafes, restaurants etc.
Agree with this somewhat- and in a previous era- the Port area did have a standalone separate tram system isolated from the main suburban one. Just two issues with this.
1. Adelaide people don't like mode transfers.
2. The cost of a small standalone system not connected physically to a wider system would surely be cost prohibative from an operational point of view. ie additional depot and maintenance facility.
Whilst I think the trams would make a great transport option and ambiance in the Port/Semaphore area, I'm not sure it could be ever justified as a standalone system... but only part of an alternative to spending the money on heavy rail upgrade if/ when required.

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[U/C] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#332 Post by rhino » Wed Jun 28, 2023 4:37 pm

Would it be worth extending that Commercial Road route down Frederick Road to West Lakes Mall?
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[U/C] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#333 Post by rev » Wed Jun 28, 2023 5:19 pm

claybro wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2023 4:23 pm
rev wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:34 pm
Why couldn't light rail begin at the Port Duck spur line, and continue around the inner harbour area of Port Adelaide and extend out to Semaphore?
The Port is ideal for apartment buildings and that type of life style. Instead we have a mix of industrial, commercial, run down buildings and a large pocket of low rise detached dwellings. |
Higher density housing, more people, will aide in the revival of the Port, particularly all the old pubs.
It would spur investment in cafes, restaurants etc.
Agree with this somewhat- and in a previous era- the Port area did have a standalone separate tram system isolated from the main suburban one. Just two issues with this.
1. Adelaide people don't like mode transfers.
2. The cost of a small standalone system not connected physically to a wider system would surely be cost prohibative from an operational point of view. ie additional depot and maintenance facility.
Whilst I think the trams would make a great transport option and ambiance in the Port/Semaphore area, I'm not sure it could be ever justified as a standalone system... but only part of an alternative to spending the money on heavy rail upgrade if/ when required.
Don't think we can really say that point 1. is valid, as we don't really have any multi-mode hubs do we?
I mean you get off a train at ARS and have to walk out of the station to go find a bus or tram..don't think that really counts does it?

I don't think it should just be looked at from a local resident PT option, but rather a benefit for tourism as well. Semaphore is a popular destination, as are our beaches in general. Right now you can only catch a tram to the one beach, Glenelg. The tram is a big part of why it's so popular.

I think if Adelaide is to seriously make a push for more people using PT, there obviously needs to be some serious investment in improving PT not just in general with new trains or extending the existing tram a few km in one direction.
There was a discussion in one thread about the train lines through the Port, maybe consolidating Ethelton and Glanville. Why not consolidate them into one larger station around the Hart Street bridge with a tram stop there as well as incorporating buses?

A Port tram line wouldn't have to start & stop with the Port & Semaphore.
Why not go further to West Lakes?

And government actually selling the idea and benefit of public transport to the public for a change. Like a proper media campaign blitz spruiking these sorts of changes.

The existing tram "network" isn't exactly extensive, it's basically a line between the city and glenelg and a couple extensions in two or three directions. Before the extensions from Vic Square to the bay it was about 10-11km, between the dock spur line and West Lakes it could be about 10km as well.

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[U/C] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#334 Post by Honey of a City » Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:12 am

Semaphore Beach is very poorly served by public transport at present. The bus down Military Rd goes via back streets and West Lakes and takes nearly an hour to get to the CBD. There’s no bus down Semaphore Rd from the Jetty to Glanville Station or Port Adelaide. There once was both a tram and train running down to the Jetty via the Port. Now nothing. Running a single line light rail shuttles from the Jetty to Dock 2 (City of Adelaide Clipper Ship and future Maritime Park) through Semaphore Rd and St Vincent St, and connecting both with the new Port Dock railway station would be ideal. Even better if the Tram Museum could be encouraged and financed to relocate from St Kilda (Siberia for tourists) to Port Adelaide and link in they could even run their operative vintage stock on weekends etc. Wins all round. As for the proposed Port Dock railway station design - sadly underwhelming arrival experience for tourists and ridiculous lack of shelter for all. Back to the drawing board please DIPTI, and put some effort into it! Fully aware of cost considerations but all worthwhile projects have to start with a vision.

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[U/C] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#335 Post by rev » Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:12 pm

How much was the redevelopment of the Oaklands train station with the full cover over the top?
How do they justify a proper cover for a station near a shopping centre, but they wont stump up the money to properly do it in an area the government wants to push substantial population and economic growth in? Ludicrous when significant investment in PT such as this will help boost that population and the local economy.

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[U/C] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#336 Post by claybro » Thu Jun 29, 2023 8:44 pm

rev wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:12 pm
How much was the redevelopment of the Oaklands train station with the full cover over the top?
How do they justify a proper cover for a station near a shopping centre, but they wont stump up the money to properly do it in an area the government wants to push substantial population and economic growth in? Ludicrous when significant investment in PT such as this will help boost that population and the local economy.
Yes, a shoddy little station. But also its location. Yet again we have a station not really where there is an interface with a local high street. Tucked away, potentially unsafe due to low surrounding activity. I wonder if there was any option to close that end of Baker street, and put a station right at St Vincent street. At least it would be visible to the Main Street of the Port.

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[U/C] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#337 Post by SRW » Thu Jun 29, 2023 8:49 pm

Honey of a City wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:12 am
Semaphore Beach is very poorly served by public transport at present. The bus down Military Rd goes via back streets and West Lakes and takes nearly an hour to get to the CBD. There’s no bus down Semaphore Rd from the Jetty to Glanville Station or Port Adelaide. There once was both a tram and train running down to the Jetty via the Port. Now nothing. Running a single line light rail shuttles from the Jetty to Dock 2 (City of Adelaide Clipper Ship and future Maritime Park) through Semaphore Rd and St Vincent St, and connecting both with the new Port Dock railway station would be ideal. Even better if the Tram Museum could be encouraged and financed to relocate from St Kilda (Siberia for tourists) to Port Adelaide and link in they could even run their operative vintage stock on weekends etc. Wins all round. As for the proposed Port Dock railway station design - sadly underwhelming arrival experience for tourists and ridiculous lack of shelter for all. Back to the drawing board please DIPTI, and put some effort into it! Fully aware of cost considerations but all worthwhile projects have to start with a vision.
Always lovely to see you post Honey!

I'm gonna riff off your suggestion for the tram museum to relocate from St Kilda to resurrect my idea of establishing a multicampus Museum of Transport in the port, leveraging off the maritime, aviation and railway museums and also bringing in a new location for the motor museum. The maritime museum in particular could be expanded based on a live restoration of the City of Adelaide clipper (or imagine something like the Vasa Museum in Stockholm). I feel this would really help with the area's tourism bona fides.
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[U/C] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#338 Post by rev » Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:42 am

claybro wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2023 8:44 pm
rev wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:12 pm
How much was the redevelopment of the Oaklands train station with the full cover over the top?
How do they justify a proper cover for a station near a shopping centre, but they wont stump up the money to properly do it in an area the government wants to push substantial population and economic growth in? Ludicrous when significant investment in PT such as this will help boost that population and the local economy.
Yes, a shoddy little station. But also its location. Yet again we have a station not really where there is an interface with a local high street. Tucked away, potentially unsafe due to low surrounding activity. I wonder if there was any option to close that end of Baker street, and put a station right at St Vincent street. At least it would be visible to the Main Street of the Port.
The way I see the spur line is the potential to continue revitalizing the area with other developments.
More apartments, converting old wool sheds into apartments, hotels, eateries etc.
Dock One has filled up with 3 level residential.

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[U/C] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#339 Post by I Follow PAFC » Fri Jun 30, 2023 11:18 am

SRW wrote:
Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:57 am
What's the timeline on this?
It is anticipated construction will commence in mid-2023. Railway sleepers were delivered in December 2022 to prepare for the start of construction.

The PTP Alliance is working through development approvals. Following this, a site compound will be established and construction works will commence in mid-2023.

The project is expected to be complete in late 2024.
www.ptpa.com.au/portdockrailway
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[U/C] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#340 Post by Llessur2002 » Fri Jun 30, 2023 11:56 am

rev wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:42 am
The way I see the spur line is the potential to continue revitalizing the area with other developments.
More apartments, converting old wool sheds into apartments, hotels, eateries etc.
Dock One has filled up with 3 level residential.
I agree - the non-commercial heart of the Port is gradually shifting in this direction and there's still so much potential in the old wool sheds and around the museum precinct.

I'd like to see a better connection to Commercial Road - I wonder if there's potential to create a new civic square or park behind the police station/court house with parking undergrounded if it needs to be retained. That could allow for a purpose built pedestrian corridor through to Commercial Road via Butler Street (although granted the latter isn't particularly inviting at the moment).
Last edited by Llessur2002 on Fri Oct 13, 2023 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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[U/C] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#341 Post by rev » Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:33 pm

Llessur2002 wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2023 11:56 am
rev wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:42 am
The way I see the spur line is the potential to continue revitalizing the area with other developments.
More apartments, converting old wool sheds into apartments, hotels, eateries etc.
Dock One has filled up with 3 level residential.
I agree - the non-commercial heart of the Port is gradually shifting in this direction and there's still so much potential in the old wool sheds and around the museum precinct.

I'd like to see a better connection to Commercial Road - I wonder if there's potential to create a new civic square or park behind the police station/court house with parking could be undergrounded if it needs to be retained. That could allow for a purpose built pedestrian corridor through to Commercial Road via Butler Street (although granted the latter isn't particularly inviting at the moment).
Opening up the area around the Uniting Church between Commercial Road and Lipson Street, closing off Charlotten Street and getting rid of the pilates studio and car park next to the church, turning it into a large pedestrian plaza. Even shutting off Butler Street and turning that into a pedestrian plaza.
As long as there's street level activation, small eateries and cafes and the like.

The state government should look at moving the Port Adelaide Police station and the magistrates court and opening up that large chunk of real estate for residential and commercial development. With a site that large they could have any 'high rise' components set back from the street to somewhat preserve whatever historical character exists along St Vincent Street.
Maybe they can move it to somewhere along the docks? And include any water operations units there as well.

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[U/C] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#342 Post by A-Town » Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:35 pm

Demand for housing in the Port Adelaide area is only going to increase as we get closer to construction starting on the new subs. The spur line should further encourage investment nearby.

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[U/C] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#343 Post by 1NEEDS2POST » Mon Jul 03, 2023 9:39 pm

Spotto wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2023 4:22 pm
Reposting a Port to Semaphore tram concept from several years ago that I resurrected last year.

Since the lines would be completely separated from the main network, could be a great chance to explore alternative power options with short sections of battery operation or ground-supplied power.
Spotto wrote:
Wed Sep 07, 2022 1:27 am
A tram down Semaphore Road connecting it through to Port Adelaide and the Dock One development (and even a branch down Commercial Rd) would be far more useful than putting full-size, infrequent trains along Semaphore Rd again. Would connect the Port area to the beach and v.v. with up to 3 convenient tram-train interchanges, and make the area far more walkable.

There is no regular bus route that links Semaphore and the Port area, the only way is by car.

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The continue to the Port Adelaide-Dry Creek line to Dry Creek, then along the road to Modbury and connect with the O-Bahn.

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[U/C] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#344 Post by MT269 » Tue Jul 11, 2023 4:36 pm

Honey of a City wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:12 am
Semaphore Beach is very poorly served by public transport at present. The bus down Military Rd goes via back streets and West Lakes and takes nearly an hour to get to the CBD. There’s no bus down Semaphore Rd from the Jetty to Glanville Station or Port Adelaide.
Technically the 'N254' does serve this road. But only runs in the early hours on a Sunday. This area used to have several feeders inc the 333, which was almost eliminated completely in 2019 by the anti PT party.

The current 157 is relatively direct for a service that goes via West Lakes. But the DIT added a heap of time to every trip recently, which makes for a very slow service. Rerouting the 157 via Carlisle St, Glanville station, Semaphore Rd, and back onto Military Rd could be a reasonable halfway solution. It would only increase the travel distance by 900 metres, which I'm sure the super reliable Scanias can handle.

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[U/C] Re: Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line

#345 Post by I Follow PAFC » Thu Oct 12, 2023 4:55 pm

Was on a train Can't see it that good but look like the they are starting work under the Grand Junction Road Bridge for the Port Adelaide Dock Spur Line.
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