Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

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Norman
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#406 Post by Norman » Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:37 am

Nort wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:00 am
SBD wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:37 pm
I don't think extending commuter rail to the Barossa is a good idea, as it would destroy much of the reason people want to live there. Likewise, Mount Barker should be developed as a separate city, not a remote dormitory. The slope and curves are not condusive to offering a service that can compete with buses for Stirling, Bridgewater, Hahndorf, Balhannah and Mount Barker on the current alignment (or Oakbank, Woodside, Birdwood on that former branch) .
You keep saying it, but the fact is that it's close enough to Adelaide that it is effectively a suburb now, and will always be. In fact if Mount Barker got more industry and university campuses and all that fun stuff it would probably just increase the amount of movements back and forth.

Likewise, people keep talking about what the local employers are to suburbs like Riverlea in 2022. I mean great to know, but absolutely not guaranteed to be at all relevant in 2042 or 2062, and thinking about what the place could be like just a few decades from now should be a core part of urban planning.

That doesn't mean we can't build there, but if we are doing it we should be doing it right. If we want to build something that is explicitly not a commuter suburb then it has to be further away. If it's a commuter suburb then we need to acknowledge that and plan accordingly.
I suppose that long-term planning is what the 30 year Plan for Greater Adelaide is for. There are a lot of employment lands across Port Wakefield Road, but I can't remember what type of employment was envisioned for the area.

A revision to the current plan is due in the next few months, they are supposed to be revised every 5 years.

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#407 Post by SBD » Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:21 am

Norman wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:37 am
Nort wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:00 am
SBD wrote:
Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:37 pm
I don't think extending commuter rail to the Barossa is a good idea, as it would destroy much of the reason people want to live there. Likewise, Mount Barker should be developed as a separate city, not a remote dormitory. The slope and curves are not condusive to offering a service that can compete with buses for Stirling, Bridgewater, Hahndorf, Balhannah and Mount Barker on the current alignment (or Oakbank, Woodside, Birdwood on that former branch) .
You keep saying it, but the fact is that it's close enough to Adelaide that it is effectively a suburb now, and will always be. In fact if Mount Barker got more industry and university campuses and all that fun stuff it would probably just increase the amount of movements back and forth.

Likewise, people keep talking about what the local employers are to suburbs like Riverlea in 2022. I mean great to know, but absolutely not guaranteed to be at all relevant in 2042 or 2062, and thinking about what the place could be like just a few decades from now should be a core part of urban planning.

That doesn't mean we can't build there, but if we are doing it we should be doing it right. If we want to build something that is explicitly not a commuter suburb then it has to be further away. If it's a commuter suburb then we need to acknowledge that and plan accordingly.
I suppose that long-term planning is what the 30 year Plan for Greater Adelaide is for. There are a lot of employment lands across Port Wakefield Road, but I can't remember what type of employment was envisioned for the area.

A revision to the current plan is due in the next few months, they are supposed to be revised every 5 years.
The areas around there have lots of greenhouses and market gardens. They have access to processed waste water from Bolivar treatment works. A lot were probably established to start with on the rich flood plains surrounding the Gawler River. There are also quite a few packing sheds etc for handling the produce. I imagine the area is suitable for road transport and logistics close to the National Highway, but quite a bit of that is in a fairly new area at Direk near Heaslip Road.

The Master Plan has an intent for a fairly significant retail area and schools, which of course also provide employment.

We seem to currently be seeing lots of new schools, including private schols/campuses. I wonder if some of these larger developments will lead to private hospitals and/or aged care in a few years too.

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#408 Post by rev » Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:09 pm

Those market gardens are on borrowed time.

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#409 Post by SBD » Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:25 pm

rev wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:09 pm
Those market gardens are on borrowed time.
What percentage of the produce through the Adelaide Produce Market would come from the Virginia/Penfield/Angle Vale area? They’ve already built over a lot of the market gardens near Mount Barker. Where else grows a lot of veggies near Adelaide?

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#410 Post by Modbury_Man » Mon Jul 10, 2023 10:27 pm

Buses coming to Riverlea (Buckland Park) later this month (albeit a limited service...) - https://www.adelaidemetro.com.au/about- ... ts-24-july

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#411 Post by PeFe » Mon Jul 10, 2023 11:12 pm

Jeez that's very generous of the state government to run 2 bus services to nowhere.....is there anybody actually living in Riverlea Park yet?

Then again the state government did approve that development......now dealing with the issues of providing services to suburbia totally unconnected with the rest of the Adelaide metropolitan area.

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#412 Post by SBD » Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:03 am

PeFe wrote:
Mon Jul 10, 2023 11:12 pm
Jeez that's very generous of the state government to run 2 bus services to nowhere.....is there anybody actually living in Riverlea Park yet?

Then again the state government did approve that development......now dealing with the issues of providing services to suburbia totally unconnected with the rest of the Adelaide metropolitan area.
That's an enormous increase in service to Virginia! Route 900 currently runs Elizabeth-Virginia-Salisbury twice in the morning and Salisbury-Virginia-Elizabeth twice in the afternoon. Route 402 is a 50% increase on that, and Route 450 will make it possible to go shopping/banking/Centrelink/medical by public transport.

Both services are configured to support residents of Riverlea and Virginia travelling to work and services in the City or established suburbs. There's still no support for public transport to get suburban residents to employment in market gardens, packing sheds, or Penfield industrial employers in that area.

Riverlea Park frequently posts to twitter/instagram about new residents. https://forecast.id.com.au/playford/abo ... ?WebID=290 says the 2023 population forecast is 816 (up from 32 at the last census).

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#413 Post by ChillyPhilly » Tue Jul 11, 2023 10:35 am

It would be wise to:

- Reserve land for a rail corridor
- Or, even wiser, halt all further development and rip up the nasty, cheap contract with Walker Corp.
Our state, our city, our future.

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#414 Post by Modbury_Man » Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:36 pm

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2023 10:35 am
It would be wise to:

- Reserve land for a rail corridor
- Or, even wiser, halt all further development and rip up the nasty, cheap contract with Walker Corp.
Unfortunately both the above don't seem likely....a new Development Application to seemingly speed up the development is on public consultation now....

https://plan.sa.gov.au/have_your_say/no ... velopments

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#415 Post by SBD » Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:28 pm

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2023 10:35 am
It would be wise to:

- Reserve land for a rail corridor
- Or, even wiser, halt all further development and rip up the nasty, cheap contract with Walker Corp.
Don't rip it up too soon - I think there's a clause that once the place is busy enough, they have to replace the traffic lights with an overpass. They certainly had to reserve the land for it, so hopefully they have to build it too.

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#416 Post by rev » Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:07 pm

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2023 10:35 am
It would be wise to:

- Reserve land for a rail corridor
- Or, even wiser, halt all further development and rip up the nasty, cheap contract with Walker Corp.
So lets have this discussion again, not that any answers are ever provided by people who vehemently argue against urban sprawl and new suburbs..

If new suburbs aren't going to be built within the metropolitan boundary, and yes Riverlea falls within that boundary, where do you expect people to live?

Housing in inner, established suburbs continues to go through the roof (multiple roofs), meaning that even if there was enough housing in those areas most people can't afford it anyway.

Do you think everyone should live in a dog box aka apartment instead?
Apartments many of which are now priced similar to free standing dwellings with their own front & back yards (which obviously apartments lack), and personal garage spaces under the main roof and easily accessible (unlike the shared car parks often found at apartment buildings)...located of course in outer suburbs.


Where do you expect people to live and how do you expect them to afford housing?

Demand is high, supply is low.
It's well established already, even the douchebag lefists in government admit that there's a massive housing shortage in this country, let alone South Australia.
Vacancy rates for rentals are below 1% in Adelaide. I think it's around 0.4%.

We need more housing, not less.
And that's a need we already have, nevermind the millions more migrants the federal government is planning on bringing in to the country which will add even more pressure to housing stocks (and everything else).


But you are right, they should have reserved a corridor for trains.
And if possible, it should be done so now. Absolutely ludicrous that the government approved it the development without such forethought.
Last edited by rev on Wed Jul 12, 2023 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#417 Post by SBD » Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:27 pm

My issue is not so much with where the new houses are or the mode of public transport, as with the assumptions that everyone only needs public transport to get from home to the Adelaide CBD and back again.

Even the new extended bus routes are only timetabled to get from home in Riverlea and Virginia to work/school/university in Adelaide and back again. There is quite a bit of employment in the northern suburbs. For example, Google Maps says that it's a 15 minute drive from Riverlea to the front gate of RAAF Edinburgh (which also has an army base). Google Maps tells me that by public transport, it will take 65 minutes (over four times as long) provided I leave home next Monday at 0621 (it's currently Wednesday evening), and it includes 34 minutes of walking time (2.7km) partly along roads with no footpath no streetlights. An option with less walking takes 1 hr 54 mins including a 61 minute wait at Salisbury for the second bus leaving home at 0641, arriving at the RAAF front gate at 0835.

The proposed new plane servicing place will only be 11 minutes by car, 33 by bus or 39 by bike if there's a gate into it from Womma Road. Mitolo Farms website says it employs 700 people - it's 5 minutes by car from Riverlea, 15 by bike (no bike lane, no sealed shoulder, no street lights, 80km/h speed limit) and not possible by public transport according to Google Maps. New developments in outer suburbs should be aimed at outer suburb and inner rural employers, not at city workers.

Current nearby schools are Virginia and Angle Vale primary schools, Riverbanks College (public B-12) east of Angle Vale, Trinity Gawler River (Anglican at Angle Vale) and Xavier (Catholic at Two Wells). They might have dedicated buses for the students, but the staff would have to drive. Ultimately, the masterplan says there will be schools within the development.

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#418 Post by rev » Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:25 am

SBD wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:27 pm
My issue is not so much with where the new houses are or the mode of public transport, as with the assumptions that everyone only needs public transport to get from home to the Adelaide CBD and back again.

Even the new extended bus routes are only timetabled to get from home in Riverlea and Virginia to work/school/university in Adelaide and back again. There is quite a bit of employment in the northern suburbs. For example, Google Maps says that it's a 15 minute drive from Riverlea to the front gate of RAAF Edinburgh (which also has an army base). Google Maps tells me that by public transport, it will take 65 minutes (over four times as long) provided I leave home next Monday at 0621 (it's currently Wednesday evening), and it includes 34 minutes of walking time (2.7km) partly along roads with no footpath no streetlights. An option with less walking takes 1 hr 54 mins including a 61 minute wait at Salisbury for the second bus leaving home at 0641, arriving at the RAAF front gate at 0835.

The proposed new plane servicing place will only be 11 minutes by car, 33 by bus or 39 by bike if there's a gate into it from Womma Road. Mitolo Farms website says it employs 700 people - it's 5 minutes by car from Riverlea, 15 by bike (no bike lane, no sealed shoulder, no street lights, 80km/h speed limit) and not possible by public transport according to Google Maps. New developments in outer suburbs should be aimed at outer suburb and inner rural employers, not at city workers.

Current nearby schools are Virginia and Angle Vale primary schools, Riverbanks College (public B-12) east of Angle Vale, Trinity Gawler River (Anglican at Angle Vale) and Xavier (Catholic at Two Wells). They might have dedicated buses for the students, but the staff would have to drive. Ultimately, the masterplan says there will be schools within the development.
Dont think you're going to encounter many military personnel and contractors catching public transport.

Not everyone that moves to the outer suburbs is doing so because they work nearby.
Many, if not most, do so because that's all they can afford because the cost of housing in existing suburbs closer to the city or traditional employment areas has become too expensive.

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#419 Post by SBD » Thu Jul 13, 2023 8:58 pm

rev wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2023 10:25 am
SBD wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:27 pm
My issue is not so much with where the new houses are or the mode of public transport, as with the assumptions that everyone only needs public transport to get from home to the Adelaide CBD and back again.

Even the new extended bus routes are only timetabled to get from home in Riverlea and Virginia to work/school/university in Adelaide and back again. There is quite a bit of employment in the northern suburbs. For example, Google Maps says that it's a 15 minute drive from Riverlea to the front gate of RAAF Edinburgh (which also has an army base). Google Maps tells me that by public transport, it will take 65 minutes (over four times as long) provided I leave home next Monday at 0621 (it's currently Wednesday evening), and it includes 34 minutes of walking time (2.7km) partly along roads with no footpath no streetlights. An option with less walking takes 1 hr 54 mins including a 61 minute wait at Salisbury for the second bus leaving home at 0641, arriving at the RAAF front gate at 0835.

The proposed new plane servicing place will only be 11 minutes by car, 33 by bus or 39 by bike if there's a gate into it from Womma Road. Mitolo Farms website says it employs 700 people - it's 5 minutes by car from Riverlea, 15 by bike (no bike lane, no sealed shoulder, no street lights, 80km/h speed limit) and not possible by public transport according to Google Maps. New developments in outer suburbs should be aimed at outer suburb and inner rural employers, not at city workers.

Current nearby schools are Virginia and Angle Vale primary schools, Riverbanks College (public B-12) east of Angle Vale, Trinity Gawler River (Anglican at Angle Vale) and Xavier (Catholic at Two Wells). They might have dedicated buses for the students, but the staff would have to drive. Ultimately, the masterplan says there will be schools within the development.
Dont think you're going to encounter many military personnel and contractors catching public transport.

Not everyone that moves to the outer suburbs is doing so because they work nearby.
Many, if not most, do so because that's all they can afford because the cost of housing in existing suburbs closer to the city or traditional employment areas has become too expensive.
There are a lot of civilians - public servants and contractors - employed in the Edinburgh precinct (RAAF base, DSTG, BAE Systems etc) as well as military. They are the major users of the Elizabeth South railway station, so there is clearly some demand for public transport. Route 421 provides one service per day each way from Salisbury Station to DSTG, RAAF and BAE Systems.

One of the reasons a lot more people don't use them is the long walks from the bus/train stops to their actual workplaces inside the complexes.

I'm sure there are people who live in outer suburbs because they want to live in inner suburbs but they can only afford outer suburbs. There are also a lot of people who live in outer suburbs to be near family and friends, because at least one person in the household works nearby, or the home is between the worksites of two people who work in different places.

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#420 Post by SouthAussie94 » Sun Oct 01, 2023 3:56 pm

Calls to stop Riverlea housing development on First Nations mass burial ground

A section of a housing development has been closed as developers continue to unearth bodies at an Indigenous burial ground in Adelaide’s northern suburbs.

It’s believed at least 31 individuals have been uncovered in two areas, with one of the sites already being sold to homebuyers and the other set for future sale.

The upcoming estate at Riverlea is set to eventually be home to 40,000 residents under a 15-year plan to build 12,000 homes, 30km from Adelaide.

The work was halted for a time in July after the discovery of ancestral remains was reported to police.

But speaking to SBS/NITV at the burial ground, Aboriginal heritage manager Alison Harvey said there could be hundreds more skeletal remains yet to be uncovered.

“The further west we go the more worrying it is,” Ms Harvey said.

“We are going to find more burials, it’s just a matter of when … this is unbelievably huge.”

The developer, Walker Corporation, is seeking authorisation from the state government to “excavate, uncover, damage, disturb or interfere with Aboriginal sites, objects and, or ancestral remains” as it is illegal to damage Aboriginal heritage without the permission of Aboriginal Affairs Minister Kyam Maher.

Currently the ancestral remains are being stored on-site in a shipping container, which SBS/NITV reports is a concern for many in the wider Kaurna community.

Mark Catanzariti, a Kaurna man, told the outlet he was angry that he only learned about the scale of the discoveries from leaked photographs of the site.

Mr Catanzariti and other Kaurna community members are calling on the state government to reject Walker Corporation’s application.

“How would you feel if that was one of your grandparents, great-grandparents, cousins or someone that was related to you being dug out of the ground like a science project?” he said.

“I’m sure they would say not very good.”

A spokesperson from Walker said the business continues to work closely with KYAC (Kaurna Yerta Aboriginal Corporation) representatives to ensure the respectful treatment of ancestral remains and to also ensure the most appropriate outcome is implemented as recommended by the Kaurna elders within KYAC”.

“Walker continues to take advice and direction from the Kaurna elders and the SA government as we work through the issues at hand and will be in a position to provide further details once the Kaurna elders and the SA government have had an appropriate opportunity to discuss and provide a way forward,” the spokesperson said.

Mulla Sumner, a Kaurna man who lives near the development told SBS/NITV it was like “they still believe we are flora and fauna”.

“We are not going to put up with people digging up our remains anymore,” he said.

“They’ve done it enough, I think there are about 4000 remains in the South Australian Museum, and I don’t know how many thousand remains overseas.”

“Enough is enough.”

Kaurna/Narungga woman Roselyn Coleman is concerned that homes built over the burial grounds would be “a really terrible place to live”, especially for families with young children.

Ms Harvey said she is concerned about future homeowners coming across remains when they eventually dig swimming pools or foundations.

The $6b development is part of the government’s long-term plan to solve the state’s housing crisis.

According to SBS/NITV it is rare to find a rich archaeological site of this nature that supports oral histories and is so close to Adelaide’s CBD.

The Aboriginal Heritage team has already found more than 1200 artefacts including spear and boomerang tips and items not usually found in South Australia.

“It gives you an idea of how heavily populated this area was, how much of a campground it was and how many families may have been living here,” Ms Harvey, who has been working in heritage and repatriation for thirty years, said.

Aboriginal bones found at Riverlea housing site “We’ve also found artefacts that you don’t find on the Adelaide plains – and that tells you a story that this was a trading ground too.”

The office of Aboriginal Affairs and Reconciliation (AAR) said it believed the remains have been managed appropriately to date.

“AAR has been consulting on the developer’s application under the Aboriginal Heritage Act and expects to provide its final report to the Minister for consideration in the coming months,” a spokesperson

Source: https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sou ... 04e3912326
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