Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

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rev
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#436 Post by rev » Wed Oct 04, 2023 1:32 pm

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2023 12:02 pm
A nightmare but it should be investigated at least. Any step towards cancelling the whole project is a good one.

There's really nothing on offer at Riverlea, other than isolation and situation on a bona fide floodplain.

Labor stalled on approving it for a clear reason - it should have stayed that way.
...and other then much needed homes during a housing crisis.

There's plenty of existing housing on flood plains.
If you have a look at maps for projections of flooding for metro Adelaide, there isn't much that wouldn't be affected in some scenario. Be it a 20, 100 or even 500 year flood event.
Mitigation works and preventative measures should be mandatory as part of any new developments.

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#437 Post by dbl96 » Sun Mar 24, 2024 2:33 pm

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2023 10:35 am
It would be wise to:

- Reserve land for a rail corridor
- Or, even wiser, halt all further development and rip up the nasty, cheap contract with Walker Corp.
Agreed. The issue is that they did not reserve land for a rail corridor, and they are now building on top of all the land that could have been reserved.

At this point, the only way of extricating ourselves from this appalling lack of foresight is to reserve a rail corridor outside of the development, directly to the south. The land around the stations could be built up as proper, connected town centres for the development. I hate to see even more prime agricultural land built on out here, but it is a price that needs to be paid to rectify the errors of this development. It would also round out Riverlea geographically, allowing for more efficient connections across the town, by creating a centre at the geographic centre. Riverlea's current L-shaped layout seems more determined by whatever land Walker could get his hands on, rather than any principles of good design. As it currently stands, people living in the south-western arm of the development are going to be incredibly isolated.

Below is a rough sketch-up of my proposed solution. The railway is the solid red line, with two stations, one near to the planned big-box style commercial centre near Port Wakefield Road, and another at a new transit-oriented development near the geographic heart of Riverlea. The dotted line indicates a potential south-western extension to link up with the St Kilda-Lefevre peninsula connection proposed elsewhere on this forum. Blue lines indicate new distributer roads. This is all premised on the idea that rail access branches from the main line just north of Virginia.
Riverlea rail access.png

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#438 Post by ChillyPhilly » Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:28 pm

dbl96 wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 2:33 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2023 10:35 am
It would be wise to:

- Reserve land for a rail corridor
- Or, even wiser, halt all further development and rip up the nasty, cheap contract with Walker Corp.
Agreed. The issue is that they did not reserve land for a rail corridor, and they are now building on top of all the land that could have been reserved.

At this point, the only way of extricating ourselves from this appalling lack of foresight is to reserve a rail corridor outside of the development, directly to the south. The land around the stations could be built up as proper, connected town centres for the development. I hate to see even more prime agricultural land built on out here, but it is a price that needs to be paid to rectify the errors of this development. It would also round out Riverlea geographically, allowing for more efficient connections across the town, by creating a centre at the geographic centre. Riverlea's current L-shaped layout seems more determined by whatever land Walker could get his hands on, rather than any principles of good design. As it currently stands, people living in the south-western arm of the development are going to be incredibly isolated.

Below is a rough sketch-up of my proposed solution. The railway is the solid red line, with two stations, one near to the planned big-box style commercial centre near Port Wakefield Road, and another at a new transit-oriented development near the geographic heart of Riverlea. The dotted line indicates a potential south-western extension to link up with the St Kilda-Lefevre peninsula connection proposed elsewhere on this forum. Blue lines indicate new distributer roads. This is all premised on the idea that rail access branches from the main line just north of Virginia.

Riverlea rail access.png
This would have to be it, unless rail goes underground.
Our state, our city, our future.

All views expressed on this forum are my own.

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#439 Post by abc » Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:38 pm

ChillyPhilly wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:28 pm
dbl96 wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 2:33 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2023 10:35 am
It would be wise to:

- Reserve land for a rail corridor
- Or, even wiser, halt all further development and rip up the nasty, cheap contract with Walker Corp.
Agreed. The issue is that they did not reserve land for a rail corridor, and they are now building on top of all the land that could have been reserved.

At this point, the only way of extricating ourselves from this appalling lack of foresight is to reserve a rail corridor outside of the development, directly to the south. The land around the stations could be built up as proper, connected town centres for the development. I hate to see even more prime agricultural land built on out here, but it is a price that needs to be paid to rectify the errors of this development. It would also round out Riverlea geographically, allowing for more efficient connections across the town, by creating a centre at the geographic centre. Riverlea's current L-shaped layout seems more determined by whatever land Walker could get his hands on, rather than any principles of good design. As it currently stands, people living in the south-western arm of the development are going to be incredibly isolated.

Below is a rough sketch-up of my proposed solution. The railway is the solid red line, with two stations, one near to the planned big-box style commercial centre near Port Wakefield Road, and another at a new transit-oriented development near the geographic heart of Riverlea. The dotted line indicates a potential south-western extension to link up with the St Kilda-Lefevre peninsula connection proposed elsewhere on this forum. Blue lines indicate new distributer roads. This is all premised on the idea that rail access branches from the main line just north of Virginia.

Riverlea rail access.png
This would have to be it, unless rail goes underground.
maybe in 100 years little old Adelaide will be ready for a metro

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#440 Post by SBD » Mon Mar 25, 2024 2:51 pm

abc wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:38 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:28 pm
dbl96 wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 2:33 pm


Agreed. The issue is that they did not reserve land for a rail corridor, and they are now building on top of all the land that could have been reserved.

At this point, the only way of extricating ourselves from this appalling lack of foresight is to reserve a rail corridor outside of the development, directly to the south. The land around the stations could be built up as proper, connected town centres for the development. I hate to see even more prime agricultural land built on out here, but it is a price that needs to be paid to rectify the errors of this development. It would also round out Riverlea geographically, allowing for more efficient connections across the town, by creating a centre at the geographic centre. Riverlea's current L-shaped layout seems more determined by whatever land Walker could get his hands on, rather than any principles of good design. As it currently stands, people living in the south-western arm of the development are going to be incredibly isolated.

Below is a rough sketch-up of my proposed solution. The railway is the solid red line, with two stations, one near to the planned big-box style commercial centre near Port Wakefield Road, and another at a new transit-oriented development near the geographic heart of Riverlea. The dotted line indicates a potential south-western extension to link up with the St Kilda-Lefevre peninsula connection proposed elsewhere on this forum. Blue lines indicate new distributer roads. This is all premised on the idea that rail access branches from the main line just north of Virginia.

Riverlea rail access.png
This would have to be it, unless rail goes underground.
maybe in 100 years little old Adelaide will be ready for a metro
Would "a metro" in whatever sense you mean it be expected to extend 38 km from the city centre to Riverlea, and even further to Aldinga and Roseworthy?

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#441 Post by abc » Mon Mar 25, 2024 3:12 pm

SBD wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2024 2:51 pm
abc wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:38 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:28 pm


This would have to be it, unless rail goes underground.
maybe in 100 years little old Adelaide will be ready for a metro
Would "a metro" in whatever sense you mean it be expected to extend 38 km from the city centre to Riverlea, and even further to Aldinga and Roseworthy?
like I said, maybe in 100 years

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#442 Post by PeFe » Mon Mar 25, 2024 4:04 pm

Riverlea Park doesn't need a "metro"......an ordinary suburban train would be suffice.

And Riverlea shouldn't be the terminus either....it should be Two Wells ...marking the contiguous end of the Adelaide suburban sprawl.

Plan for it now.....reserving the corridor....making any new developments around the train corridor.....not 2 kms away.

Fail fail fail for any sort of future planning for Adelaide. Embarassing.

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#443 Post by rev » Mon Mar 25, 2024 4:49 pm

PeFe wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2024 4:04 pm
Riverlea Park doesn't need a "metro"......an ordinary suburban train would be suffice.

And Riverlea shouldn't be the terminus either....it should be Two Wells ...marking the contiguous end of the Adelaide suburban sprawl.

Plan for it now.....reserving the corridor....making any new developments around the train corridor.....not 2 kms away.

Fail fail fail for any sort of future planning for Adelaide. Embarassing.
Terminus should be further out to regional centres, but that's a conversation for another topic and not a conversation most of SA is ready for.

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#444 Post by SBD » Mon Mar 25, 2024 6:17 pm

rev wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2024 4:49 pm
PeFe wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2024 4:04 pm
Riverlea Park doesn't need a "metro"......an ordinary suburban train would be suffice.

And Riverlea shouldn't be the terminus either....it should be Two Wells ...marking the contiguous end of the Adelaide suburban sprawl.

Plan for it now.....reserving the corridor....making any new developments around the train corridor.....not 2 kms away.

Fail fail fail for any sort of future planning for Adelaide. Embarassing.
Terminus should be further out to regional centres, but that's a conversation for another topic and not a conversation most of SA is ready for.
There's already a rail corridor through Two Wells. I'm not sure if it's wide enough for dual track.

The single track used to be broad gauge (like the Adelaide metro network is), and had passenger trains to the gauge terminus at Port Pirie. I don't recall what stops were used along the way.

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#445 Post by Goodsy » Mon Mar 25, 2024 6:45 pm

SBD wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2024 6:17 pm
rev wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2024 4:49 pm
PeFe wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2024 4:04 pm
Riverlea Park doesn't need a "metro"......an ordinary suburban train would be suffice.

And Riverlea shouldn't be the terminus either....it should be Two Wells ...marking the contiguous end of the Adelaide suburban sprawl.

Plan for it now.....reserving the corridor....making any new developments around the train corridor.....not 2 kms away.

Fail fail fail for any sort of future planning for Adelaide. Embarassing.
Terminus should be further out to regional centres, but that's a conversation for another topic and not a conversation most of SA is ready for.
There's already a rail corridor through Two Wells. I'm not sure if it's wide enough for dual track.

The single track used to be broad gauge (like the Adelaide metro network is), and had passenger trains to the gauge terminus at Port Pirie. I don't recall what stops were used along the way.
It's probably wide enough for quad track. But IMO a Two Wells rail line shouldn't follow the ARTC line. Two Wells is set to get a new town center situated on the old trotting track so there should be a station right under it. Like Joondalup station in WA

Image

Branch off after Virginia, run the track in the middle of Port Wakefield road with a station for Riverlea and then continue north to Two Wells, rejoin the ARTC corridor somewhere north of Two Wells and continue on to Mallala

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#446 Post by rev » Mon Mar 25, 2024 6:59 pm

dbl96 wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 2:33 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2023 10:35 am
It would be wise to:

- Reserve land for a rail corridor
- Or, even wiser, halt all further development and rip up the nasty, cheap contract with Walker Corp.
Agreed. The issue is that they did not reserve land for a rail corridor, and they are now building on top of all the land that could have been reserved.

At this point, the only way of extricating ourselves from this appalling lack of foresight is to reserve a rail corridor outside of the development, directly to the south. The land around the stations could be built up as proper, connected town centres for the development. I hate to see even more prime agricultural land built on out here, but it is a price that needs to be paid to rectify the errors of this development. It would also round out Riverlea geographically, allowing for more efficient connections across the town, by creating a centre at the geographic centre. Riverlea's current L-shaped layout seems more determined by whatever land Walker could get his hands on, rather than any principles of good design. As it currently stands, people living in the south-western arm of the development are going to be incredibly isolated.

Below is a rough sketch-up of my proposed solution. The railway is the solid red line, with two stations, one near to the planned big-box style commercial centre near Port Wakefield Road, and another at a new transit-oriented development near the geographic heart of Riverlea. The dotted line indicates a potential south-western extension to link up with the St Kilda-Lefevre peninsula connection proposed elsewhere on this forum. Blue lines indicate new distributer roads. This is all premised on the idea that rail access branches from the main line just north of Virginia.

Riverlea rail access.png
I reckon the situation could be saved, if government wanted to have rail out that way.
That undeveloped area in your picture, around the red line and below it, it's not unforeseeable that in the near future it too will filled with housing. That would place that hypothetical rail line you've drawn, in the centre of all of that. With enough proper infrastructure around it, like parking facilities, and hopefully a proper railway station and not just some glorified shelters, I reckon it could become just as heavily used as the main gawler line.

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#447 Post by Nort » Mon Mar 25, 2024 7:40 pm

rev wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2024 6:59 pm
dbl96 wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 2:33 pm
ChillyPhilly wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2023 10:35 am
It would be wise to:

- Reserve land for a rail corridor
- Or, even wiser, halt all further development and rip up the nasty, cheap contract with Walker Corp.
Agreed. The issue is that they did not reserve land for a rail corridor, and they are now building on top of all the land that could have been reserved.

At this point, the only way of extricating ourselves from this appalling lack of foresight is to reserve a rail corridor outside of the development, directly to the south. The land around the stations could be built up as proper, connected town centres for the development. I hate to see even more prime agricultural land built on out here, but it is a price that needs to be paid to rectify the errors of this development. It would also round out Riverlea geographically, allowing for more efficient connections across the town, by creating a centre at the geographic centre. Riverlea's current L-shaped layout seems more determined by whatever land Walker could get his hands on, rather than any principles of good design. As it currently stands, people living in the south-western arm of the development are going to be incredibly isolated.

Below is a rough sketch-up of my proposed solution. The railway is the solid red line, with two stations, one near to the planned big-box style commercial centre near Port Wakefield Road, and another at a new transit-oriented development near the geographic heart of Riverlea. The dotted line indicates a potential south-western extension to link up with the St Kilda-Lefevre peninsula connection proposed elsewhere on this forum. Blue lines indicate new distributer roads. This is all premised on the idea that rail access branches from the main line just north of Virginia.

Riverlea rail access.png
I reckon the situation could be saved, if government wanted to have rail out that way.
That undeveloped area in your picture, around the red line and below it, it's not unforeseeable that in the near future it too will filled with housing. That would place that hypothetical rail line you've drawn, in the centre of all of that. With enough proper infrastructure around it, like parking facilities, and hopefully a proper railway station and not just some glorified shelters, I reckon it could become just as heavily used as the main gawler line.
Yep, changing the existing plans seems unlikely now, but it's not impossible to have it accounted for in future expansion, if unlikely with the train haters we seem to have on both sides of politics in this state.

Ultimately they'll still have dropped the ball on the train connecting to the town center though.

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#448 Post by SBD » Mon Mar 25, 2024 7:55 pm

Some people on this forum complain about sprawling suburbia on productive farmland.
Some complain about excessive commute time/distance.
Now we have people wanting to build housing and a new railway line+station on land that is zoned as primary production horticulture.

I'm the one who thinks people should be less hung up on "the city centre" and the "Central Business District" and encourage/facilitate more people to work near where they live (or live near where they work).

Riverlea Park residents don't need to be helped to get to the Central Market to buy vegetables that were grown over their back fence. They don't need the vegetables ripped up so there are more houses full of people who can't buy locally-grown vegetables any more. They more bus services at higher frequency to get to the local services that are too far to walk - for buses (or trains) to be useful, they should go to the same places people would drive to - like paths in parks have to go on the "desire lines" where people actually walk.

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#449 Post by rev » Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:26 pm

SBD wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2024 7:55 pm
Some people on this forum complain about sprawling suburbia on productive farmland.
Some complain about excessive commute time/distance.
Now we have people wanting to build housing and a new railway line+station on land that is zoned as primary production horticulture.

I'm the one who thinks people should be less hung up on "the city centre" and the "Central Business District" and encourage/facilitate more people to work near where they live (or live near where they work).

Riverlea Park residents don't need to be helped to get to the Central Market to buy vegetables that were grown over their back fence. They don't need the vegetables ripped up so there are more houses full of people who can't buy locally-grown vegetables any more. They more bus services at higher frequency to get to the local services that are too far to walk - for buses (or trains) to be useful, they should go to the same places people would drive to - like paths in parks have to go on the "desire lines" where people actually walk.
Have a look at all the great, large cities around the world. One thing they all have in common is extensive public transport particularly trains.

People are going to travel for various reasons across the metro area. They travel everyday. Wouldnt it be better, wouldnt it make our city a more liveable place, to have an extensive public transport network?

This area is already being turned into housing. The horse has bolted as they say.
So the time to ensure its able to be integrated into a public transport network is now while there is still room to build said PT network in the area.

The whole region from Buckland Park and south is going to be housing in the decades to come.

Its not like technology doesn't exist to create productive farmlands. I've mentioned it before, Israel has turned parts of the desert into green farmlands. Why can't we do it in Australia?

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#450 Post by SBD » Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:30 am

rev wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:26 pm
SBD wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2024 7:55 pm
Some people on this forum complain about sprawling suburbia on productive farmland.
Some complain about excessive commute time/distance.
Now we have people wanting to build housing and a new railway line+station on land that is zoned as primary production horticulture.

I'm the one who thinks people should be less hung up on "the city centre" and the "Central Business District" and encourage/facilitate more people to work near where they live (or live near where they work).

Riverlea Park residents don't need to be helped to get to the Central Market to buy vegetables that were grown over their back fence. They don't need the vegetables ripped up so there are more houses full of people who can't buy locally-grown vegetables any more. They more bus services at higher frequency to get to the local services that are too far to walk - for buses (or trains) to be useful, they should go to the same places people would drive to - like paths in parks have to go on the "desire lines" where people actually walk.
Have a look at all the great, large cities around the world. One thing they all have in common is extensive public transport particularly trains.

People are going to travel for various reasons across the metro area. They travel everyday. Wouldnt it be better, wouldnt it make our city a more liveable place, to have an extensive public transport network?

This area is already being turned into housing. The horse has bolted as they say.
So the time to ensure its able to be integrated into a public transport network is now while there is still room to build said PT network in the area.

The whole region from Buckland Park and south is going to be housing in the decades to come.

Its not like technology doesn't exist to create productive farmlands. I've mentioned it before, Israel has turned parts of the desert into green farmlands. Why can't we do it in Australia?
I agree we/they need public transport. I disagree that it should be provided by hub-and-spoke railways. People who live in a suburb surrounded by market gardens shouldn't need to go to the Central Market to buy that produce. The City of Playford runs across the northern edge of the metropolitan area. People shouldn't have to cross the LGAs of Salisbury, Port Adelaide-Enfield, Prospect and Adelaide to get from home to their local council offices or district shopping centre.

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