Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

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HiTouch
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#451 Post by HiTouch » Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:10 am

If Riverlea was a TOD, the government wouldn't need to sprawl out to Two Wells :roll:

Nort
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#452 Post by Nort » Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:19 pm

SBD wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2024 7:55 pm
Some people on this forum complain about sprawling suburbia on productive farmland.
Some complain about excessive commute time/distance.
Now we have people wanting to build housing and a new railway line+station on land that is zoned as primary production horticulture.

I'm the one who thinks people should be less hung up on "the city centre" and the "Central Business District" and encourage/facilitate more people to work near where they live (or live near where they work).

Riverlea Park residents don't need to be helped to get to the Central Market to buy vegetables that were grown over their back fence. They don't need the vegetables ripped up so there are more houses full of people who can't buy locally-grown vegetables any more. They more bus services at higher frequency to get to the local services that are too far to walk - for buses (or trains) to be useful, they should go to the same places people would drive to - like paths in parks have to go on the "desire lines" where people actually walk.
Where did this stuff about going to the Central Market to buy their vegetables come from?
I'm the one who thinks people should be less hung up on "the city centre" and the "Central Business District" and encourage/facilitate more people to work near where they live (or live near where they work).
Yes, that would be fantastic.

It would also be fantastic if we just deployed Star Trek style teleporters to resolve the issue entirely.

All the examples both from here, interstate, and internationally, show that the latter teleportation option is only slightly less realistic.

A suburb within commuting distance of Adelaide will become a suburb with a large number of commuters, that's just a fact. The question here is just what percentage of those are going to add to car traffic, and the current plans are for close to 100% to do so.

SBD
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#453 Post by SBD » Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:50 pm

Nort wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:19 pm
SBD wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2024 7:55 pm
Some people on this forum complain about sprawling suburbia on productive farmland.
Some complain about excessive commute time/distance.
Now we have people wanting to build housing and a new railway line+station on land that is zoned as primary production horticulture.

I'm the one who thinks people should be less hung up on "the city centre" and the "Central Business District" and encourage/facilitate more people to work near where they live (or live near where they work).

Riverlea Park residents don't need to be helped to get to the Central Market to buy vegetables that were grown over their back fence. They don't need the vegetables ripped up so there are more houses full of people who can't buy locally-grown vegetables any more. They more bus services at higher frequency to get to the local services that are too far to walk - for buses (or trains) to be useful, they should go to the same places people would drive to - like paths in parks have to go on the "desire lines" where people actually walk.
Where did this stuff about going to the Central Market to buy their vegetables come from?
I'm the one who thinks people should be less hung up on "the city centre" and the "Central Business District" and encourage/facilitate more people to work near where they live (or live near where they work).
Yes, that would be fantastic.

It would also be fantastic if we just deployed Star Trek style teleporters to resolve the issue entirely.

All the examples both from here, interstate, and internationally, show that the latter teleportation option is only slightly less realistic.

A suburb within commuting distance of Adelaide will become a suburb with a large number of commuters, that's just a fact. The question here is just what percentage of those are going to add to car traffic, and the current plans are for close to 100% to do so.
Where do city-focused people buy fresh fruit and vegetables? It's a short drive but a long public transport journey from Riverlea Park to Virgara at Angle Vale. Woolworths does not count as fresh fruit and veg.

A bus route Riverlea Park - Virginia - Angle Vale - Curtis Road - Smithfield Interchange has the potential to be a useful community service rather than assuming everybody in outer suburbs need to get into the Adelaide CBD all the time.

Bus or train services will take a long time to be adopted, as the people who have chosen to build at Riverlea Park have already factored in their transport needs based on what they expected to see when they signed their building contracts. I suspect there are school bus services not listed on Adelaide Metro's website.

rev
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#454 Post by rev » Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:48 pm

SBD wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:50 pm
Nort wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:19 pm
SBD wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2024 7:55 pm
Some people on this forum complain about sprawling suburbia on productive farmland.
Some complain about excessive commute time/distance.
Now we have people wanting to build housing and a new railway line+station on land that is zoned as primary production horticulture.

I'm the one who thinks people should be less hung up on "the city centre" and the "Central Business District" and encourage/facilitate more people to work near where they live (or live near where they work).

Riverlea Park residents don't need to be helped to get to the Central Market to buy vegetables that were grown over their back fence. They don't need the vegetables ripped up so there are more houses full of people who can't buy locally-grown vegetables any more. They more bus services at higher frequency to get to the local services that are too far to walk - for buses (or trains) to be useful, they should go to the same places people would drive to - like paths in parks have to go on the "desire lines" where people actually walk.
Where did this stuff about going to the Central Market to buy their vegetables come from?
I'm the one who thinks people should be less hung up on "the city centre" and the "Central Business District" and encourage/facilitate more people to work near where they live (or live near where they work).
Yes, that would be fantastic.

It would also be fantastic if we just deployed Star Trek style teleporters to resolve the issue entirely.

All the examples both from here, interstate, and internationally, show that the latter teleportation option is only slightly less realistic.

A suburb within commuting distance of Adelaide will become a suburb with a large number of commuters, that's just a fact. The question here is just what percentage of those are going to add to car traffic, and the current plans are for close to 100% to do so.
Where do city-focused people buy fresh fruit and vegetables? It's a short drive but a long public transport journey from Riverlea Park to Virgara at Angle Vale. Woolworths does not count as fresh fruit and veg.

A bus route Riverlea Park - Virginia - Angle Vale - Curtis Road - Smithfield Interchange has the potential to be a useful community service rather than assuming everybody in outer suburbs need to get into the Adelaide CBD all the time.

Bus or train services will take a long time to be adopted, as the people who have chosen to build at Riverlea Park have already factored in their transport needs based on what they expected to see when they signed their building contracts. I suspect there are school bus services not listed on Adelaide Metro's website.
I think your focusing too much on where people buy fruit and veg, rather then that people will travel for a variety of reasons, not just specifically where they buy their fruit & veg. For work, on weekends for example going into the city.
Buses shouldn't be the go to option. Especially in this case where the opportunity exists to expand the rail network even if it is just an additional line or spur line, and most development around it can, can be shaped around that train line and stations, as opposed to how we usually do things in South Australia with public transport which is the opposite.

It's not just Riverlea, but the housing developments that are going to follow. From Riverlea across to Angle Vale, down to Munno Parra and Burton, the majority of that region is going to be housing in the not too distant future.
That's a couple hundred thousand people. Remember, the plan is for Adelaide to be a city of 2 million by 2050. That is where those people are going to be living.

Public transport, rail lines, need to be thought of now, not when there's 150,000 more cars or more on the roads and congestion is out of this world. Even buses at that stage aren't going to cut it.

Nort
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#455 Post by Nort » Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:58 pm

rev wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:48 pm
SBD wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:50 pm
Nort wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:19 pm


Where did this stuff about going to the Central Market to buy their vegetables come from?



Yes, that would be fantastic.

It would also be fantastic if we just deployed Star Trek style teleporters to resolve the issue entirely.

All the examples both from here, interstate, and internationally, show that the latter teleportation option is only slightly less realistic.

A suburb within commuting distance of Adelaide will become a suburb with a large number of commuters, that's just a fact. The question here is just what percentage of those are going to add to car traffic, and the current plans are for close to 100% to do so.
Where do city-focused people buy fresh fruit and vegetables? It's a short drive but a long public transport journey from Riverlea Park to Virgara at Angle Vale. Woolworths does not count as fresh fruit and veg.

A bus route Riverlea Park - Virginia - Angle Vale - Curtis Road - Smithfield Interchange has the potential to be a useful community service rather than assuming everybody in outer suburbs need to get into the Adelaide CBD all the time.

Bus or train services will take a long time to be adopted, as the people who have chosen to build at Riverlea Park have already factored in their transport needs based on what they expected to see when they signed their building contracts. I suspect there are school bus services not listed on Adelaide Metro's website.
I think your focusing too much on where people buy fruit and veg, rather then that people will travel for a variety of reasons, not just specifically where they buy their fruit & veg. For work, on weekends for example going into the city.
Buses shouldn't be the go to option. Especially in this case where the opportunity exists to expand the rail network even if it is just an additional line or spur line, and most development around it can, can be shaped around that train line and stations, as opposed to how we usually do things in South Australia with public transport which is the opposite.

It's not just Riverlea, but the housing developments that are going to follow. From Riverlea across to Angle Vale, down to Munno Parra and Burton, the majority of that region is going to be housing in the not too distant future.
That's a couple hundred thousand people. Remember, the plan is for Adelaide to be a city of 2 million by 2050. That is where those people are going to be living.

Public transport, rail lines, need to be thought of now, not when there's 150,000 more cars or more on the roads and congestion is out of this world. Even buses at that stage aren't going to cut it.
EXACTLY.

15-20 years from now the children of those young families will entering the work force, and going into the city for university. People's careers will have changed. It's important that places are well connected from the start to account for how they will grow as places people live.

Better public transport connection will eventually happen to this region. The question is just if it is done is a better planned and cheaper way from the start, or retrofitted in decades from now and is staggeringly more expensive and less effective.

SBD
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#456 Post by SBD » Tue Mar 26, 2024 7:41 pm

You are both primarily focused on helping future people to move more efficiently in and out of the same single hub that the current public transport system is focused on.

My point is that people in outer suburbs own and use cars is because most of their travel is not to and from that hub. One reason the car becomes the default for all travel is because it's the best choice for most travel.

Once people have a car, the cost:benefit of actually using it is different than the analysis for buying one in the first place. For a household to decide not to own a car at all, most weeks should not be unduly difficult to not need one. When the "usual" journey can be 30 minutes by car or two hours by public transport, it's worth having a car. The same applies for the second person in the house if their usual journeys don't line up.

The public transport network might be set up by analysing the routes people use public transport for now, but that''s because the journeys that are hard don't use it.

Eurostar
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#457 Post by Eurostar » Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:16 am

Maybe build a ferry wharf and ferry could run from St Kilda to Port Adelaide. It'll be then a short train ride from the new Port Dock Station to Adelaide. You could have bus from Riverlea to St Kilda and vice versa.

abc
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#458 Post by abc » Fri Mar 29, 2024 11:51 am

Eurostar wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:16 am
Maybe build a ferry wharf and ferry could run from St Kilda to Port Adelaide. It'll be then a short train ride from the new Port Dock Station to Adelaide. You could have bus from Riverlea to St Kilda and vice versa.
great solution... Riverlea to Adelaide in 3 hours!
and you get to travel on a scenic ferry in a mosquito ridden swamp as part of the experience

EBG
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#459 Post by EBG » Fri Mar 29, 2024 12:50 pm

What Riverlea needs most urgently is petrol station -preferably with take away food. A couple of weeks ago I had to go to Two Wells running on empty.

Goodsy
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#460 Post by Goodsy » Fri Mar 29, 2024 2:36 pm

EBG wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2024 12:50 pm
What Riverlea needs most urgently is petrol station -preferably with take away food. A couple of weeks ago I had to go to Two Wells running on empty.
Virigina is closer with 3 petrol stations..

rev
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#461 Post by rev » Fri Mar 29, 2024 2:37 pm

EBG wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2024 12:50 pm
What Riverlea needs most urgently is petrol station -preferably with take away food. A couple of weeks ago I had to go to Two Wells running on empty.
Virginia would have been closer I think.
40,000 new residents, I'm sure it wont be long before an X Convenience or OTR pops up.

Google Street view is available for what's built already in Riverlea for anyone interested in having a look.

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#462 Post by SBD » Fri Mar 29, 2024 9:22 pm

Goodsy wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2024 2:36 pm
EBG wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2024 12:50 pm
What Riverlea needs most urgently is petrol station -preferably with take away food. A couple of weeks ago I had to go to Two Wells running on empty.
Virigina is closer with 3 petrol stations..
Also what I was thinking, plus why go home with an almost empty tank in a potential bushfire area?

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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#463 Post by Mpol02 » Fri Mar 29, 2024 9:51 pm

This development just doesn’t need to exist. Vile

EBG
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#464 Post by EBG » Sat Mar 30, 2024 2:16 pm

I don't live in Riverlea, I was just visiting, I live in the Eastern suburbs. If I had known it was so far from civilisation I would have brought a packed lunch and filled up in Salisbury or Gepps Cross. You all realise that before the Government decided to call this project Riverlea it was known as The Lower Light Flood Plain.

EBG B. Eng. (Civil).

abc
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Re: Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

#465 Post by abc » Sat Mar 30, 2024 3:53 pm

EBG wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2024 2:16 pm
I don't live in Riverlea, I was just visiting, I live in the Eastern suburbs. If I had known it was so far from civilisation I would have brought a packed lunch and filled up in Salisbury or Gepps Cross. You all realise that before the Government decided to call this project Riverlea it was known as The Lower Light Flood Plain.

EBG B. Eng. (Civil).
does it actually flood there periodically? probably not a great location for a housing dev

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