[VIS] Passenger Trains to Mount Barker

[SBD]

What’s the catch? It’s nice of them to fully fund the trials at no immediate cost to the state, but nothing’s ever truly free.

Will we be required to buy their trains if we do start a passenger service based on their trials? Buy their trains if we ever start any regional intercity services (e.g. Murray Bridge, the Iron Triangle)? Be a privatised operator of said routes?

"JOBS"

The Spanish Government would presumably invest in this trial with the expectation that when it is successful, a bunch of Spanish workers will get jobs building the trains, permanent gauge-conversion machine(s) and any other plant required. There would also be a bunch of Spanish employees needed to get the trial working, and to train the Australian operators who would work for a Spanish public transport company running the trains (and then competing for the next Adelaide Hills bus contracts).

This is not necessarily a bad thing - there is also a Spanish renewable energy company generating electricity in South Australia, as well as a French one and several Australian ones. What I don't know is whether the SA government invests in South Australian export industries (solar panels, electric buses, beer etc) or invests in foreign utilities to diversify its income streams.

[dbl96]

We don't know that yet.

Why would they do this for free? Because they have seen a potential market for their product and they want to demonstrate to us how well it works so that down the track we buy it from them.

It is the same principle as why vendors in the Central Market give away free samples of fruit.

What’s the catch? It’s nice of them to fully fund the trials at no immediate cost to the state, but nothing’s ever truly free.

Will we be required to buy their trains if we do start a passenger service based on their trials? Buy their trains if we ever start any regional intercity services (e.g. Murray Bridge, the Iron Triangle)? Be a privatised operator of said routes?

"JOBS"

The Spanish Government would presumably invest in this trial with the expectation that when it is successful, a bunch of Spanish workers will get jobs building the trains, permanent gauge-conversion machine(s) and any other plant required. There would also be a bunch of Spanish employees needed to get the trial working, and to train the Australian operators who would work for a Spanish public transport company running the trains (and then competing for the next Adelaide Hills bus contracts).

This is not necessarily a bad thing - there is also a Spanish renewable energy company generating electricity in South Australia, as well as a French one and several Australian ones. What I don't know is whether the SA government invests in South Australian export industries (solar panels, electric buses, beer etc) or invests in foreign utilities to diversify its income streams.

[Cryptic]

If anyone has a subscription it would be great if you could post the article.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenge ... e9679dae5e

[whatstheirnamesmom]

Process starts to trial Talgo trains from Mount Barker to Adelaide CBD
During the election, Labor vowed to back a trial of commuter trains from Mount Barker to Adelaide – now it says the process has started.

Miles Kemp, 4 April 2022

The new Labor state government has begun a process to trial a passenger train between Adelaide and Mt Barker, keeping an election promise.
Transport Minister Tom Koutsantonis said the department was seeking data from Spanish train manufacturer Talgo to run on SA simulators to check they were compatible.

The Advertiser can reveal the company is applying for an EU grant to ship its vehicles to Adelaide for a trial. Sales of trains would be the outcome for the EU investment, which began as an election challenge by Talgo against the former state government’s claim that the journey would take 71 minutes.

Talgo, known for its production and distribution of high-speed trains, claims it can do the run within 45 minutes, making it a viable option for commuters sick of delays on the South-Eastern Freeway.

The 26-minute reduction is based on modelling of Talgo’s rolling stock on the Australian Rail Track Corporation line, but Mr Koutsantonis said he wanted more detail on the $2.5m company-funded proposal.

“What hasn’t been made public so far is that Talgo plan to achieve this trial with an EU grant to bring the trains out to trial on our system,’’ he said.

“As long as there is no cost to the taxpayer I am happy for them to come out and run a trial.

“I am also happy to co-ordinate approval with the Australian Rail Track Corporation, which is run by the Commonwealth.

“This is important because it is an important freight line.”

Under the previous government the Transport Department rejected passenger rail between Adelaide and Mt Barker station, in favour of better bus services.

Mount Barker Council supported the rail option, citing costs of $10m to upgrade a section of unused track between ARTC line and Mount Barker station, which has an existing Park ‘n’ Ride.

A further $25m would be required to purchase new variable-gauge rolling stock.

The Talgo option would give the company a valuable showcase in Australia, from which to promote its technology.

Talgo has cutting-edge tilt-train technology that allows trains to safely go faster than conventional rolling stock and can change the gauge of the rolling stock.

“The Transport Department has told me that the first step to progress this is for them to so submit their software, so they can do a desktop analysis on department computer systems,’’ Mr Koutsantonis said.

“It must be shown that their trains will be able to run on our systems, and that you can run a passenger gauge on a freight gauge.”

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenge ... e9679dae5e

[1NEEDS2POST]

It's great knowing that my suggestion in viewtopic.php?p=203157#p203157 will probably happen. I'd like to think they read my posts!

They haven't mentioned what they will do about track gauge. Mount Barker station to Mount Barker Junction can be rebuilt to standard gauge. Steamranger doesn't use that section, except for the turntable, and they can build a second platform at Mount Barker for standard gauge. Getting the train into ARS is the problem, so they would have to build a gauge changing facility in Mile End, run dual gauge track from Mile End to ARS or convert the Belair line to standard gauge. I think this is the time we should be converting the whole Adelaide Metro network to standard gauge.

[Norman]

It's great knowing that my suggestion in viewtopic.php?p=203157#p203157 will probably happen. I'd like to think they read my posts!

They haven't mentioned what they will do about track gauge. Mount Barker station to Mount Barker Junction can be rebuilt to standard gauge. Steamranger doesn't use that section, except for the turntable, and they can build a second platform at Mount Barker for standard gauge. Getting the train into ARS is the problem, so they would have to build a gauge changing facility in Mile End, run dual gauge track from Mile End to ARS or convert the Belair line to standard gauge. I think this is the time we should be converting the whole Adelaide Metro network to standard gauge.

The government hasn't said anything about gauges because nothing has been decided yet. As far as I can see they are leaving it all in the manufacturer's hands to come up with a solution for the trial. The government's main role is to merely decide if the trial should or should not go ahead, and ensuring the equipment is compatible with their systems.

[HiTouch]

It's great knowing that my suggestion in viewtopic.php?p=203157#p203157 will probably happen. I'd like to think they read my posts!

They haven't mentioned what they will do about track gauge. Mount Barker station to Mount Barker Junction can be rebuilt to standard gauge. Steamranger doesn't use that section, except for the turntable, and they can build a second platform at Mount Barker for standard gauge. Getting the train into ARS is the problem, so they would have to build a gauge changing facility in Mile End, run dual gauge track from Mile End to ARS or convert the Belair line to standard gauge. I think this is the time we should be converting the whole Adelaide Metro network to standard gauge.

If this is the case, can you mention reviving the old 2016 Tram Network vision... they listen to you

[Cryptic]

If only AdeLINK was revived

[SRW]

ABC has an article up claiming Talgo has gauge-changing tech. Also mention is an expected 8 month timeline before any trial could take place. See: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-05/ ... /100966178

[PeFe]

And the Mt Barker residents interviewed in the article believe the train will be "faster than the bus"......the residents are not going to be too thrilled when they find out that the train will take 20 minutes longer than the bus.

It's this sort of delusional promises that makes the general public skeptical of government authorities. The Mt. Barker train proposal is driven by armchair transport planning, with huge dollops of "flights of fantasy".

[jk1237]

oh FFS Pefe I am so fed up with your negativity. Everything to do with cars and new roads approve at billions (then spend billions in a few more years for a extra lane) but as soon as someone mentions a train, oooooh noo there is some curves in the tracks stop it. Its so typical conservative Adelaide attitude.

The issue with the bus as demonstrated in peak hour is that Glen Osmond Road in peak hour crawls along in a traffic jam, this is where the bus is slower. Outside of peak hour the bus will be most likely quicker. Big deal, similar setups in Queensland still operate with trains. Gold Coast line from Beenleigh to Brisbane is far more winding than the freeway, quick close the train down now I guess.

[Nort]

And the Mt Barker residents interviewed in the article believe the train will be "faster than the bus"......the residents are not going to be too thrilled when they find out that the train will take 20 minutes longer than the bus.

It's this sort of delusional promises that makes the general public skeptical of government authorities. The Mt. Barker train proposal is driven by armchair transport planning, with huge dollops of "flights of fantasy".

Where has the government promised that the train trial will be faster than a bus?

[PeFe]

I never said the government has indicated "the train will be faster".

The residents believe this themselves. Read the article.....it is there in plain English.

[Nort]

I never said the government has indicated "the train will be faster".

The residents believe this themselves. Read the article.....it is there in plain English.

No, but you did say that:

It's this sort of delusional promises that makes the general public skeptical of government authorities.

If the government has never claimed anything like that, why would those "promises" not being met make people skeptical of the government?

[Spotto]

re-post from the North-South Motorway discussion:

Short South also looks like a cost-effective "solution" to providing an alternate road route between Mount Barker and the Adelaide Plains. I wonder if the corridor could be wide enough (and shallow enough grades) to provide commuter rail as well if the urban planning people still want to make Mt Barker a residential suburb rather than a separate city.

Short South would be a great idea to get the ARTC main line out of the way, but using it for commuter rail would bypass the inner hills where commuter rail is sorely needed.

Re-posting an old map with a few updates. Ideally, keeping commuter trains on the current line with realignment to follow the Freeway (and maybe follow Brown Hill Creek to speed things up) will keep as many destinations as possible on the route and allow through-running beyond Mount Barker if needed.