[VIS] Passenger Trains to Mount Barker

[1NEEDS2POST]

The only way high speeds are possible on the current alignment is to either increase the cant (can't increase too much because of goods trains) or use tilting trains. Talgo makes variable gauge tilting trains that can change gauge at low speed. Here's a video of it in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiH4kt14yGw

Gauge changing facilities could be put at Mile End and another at Mt Barker Junction to run on the broad gauge Steamranger railway. It's probably cheaper to convert the tracks to standard gauge though. Another benefit of variable gauge trains is we could have a higher speed Overland. The standard gauge route to Melbourne is indirect, but there is a shorter broad gauge railway from Ararat to Melbourne used by VLocity trains at up to 160 km/h. A gauge changing facility at Ararat would allow the Overland to use the shorter route.

[Spotto]

Combining this commuter rail with the strategic vision of the CBD underground loop (using the reserved cutting near the Morphett St bridge and SAHMRI) could make it a game-changer. Will cost billions though.

An underground rail link between the northern and southern lines (not a loop, see Melbourne) would free up capacity at ARS to make more frequent services to Mount Barker possible. They would be the perfect companion projects.

[Spotto]

Passenger rail off the table as Liberal Government promises $19m for express bus service in Adelaide Hills

A high-frequency express bus service and better park‘n’ride facilities are the highlights of a $19m package of improvements for Hills commuters unveiled by the state government.

Lydia Kellner
February 27, 2022 - 5:20PM

A new higher performance bus fleet, better park‘n’ride facilities and a high-frequency express bus service between Mt Barker and Adelaide are the highlights of a $19m package of improvements for Hills commuters – but commuter trains will not be arriving.

The measures, announced by the Liberal government on Sunday, follow the release of a controversial study by Infrastructure SA last month which claimed passenger rail was unable to meet consumer needs.

The funding package includes $10m for a fleet of 15 higher-performance buses to operate a new express service between Adelaide Hills communities and the CBD from 2024.

Buses would run between park‘n’ride facilities and the city every six to eight minutes during peak periods, every 10 to 15 minutes interpeak and every 20 to 30 minutes at night, with the journey in each direction expected to be about five minutes quicker.

The plan also includes $2m for a new bus depot, $6m to expand park‘n’ride facilities at Crafers by an extra 140 spaces, to open in 2024, and $1m to investigate a new park‘n’ride near the freeway at Bridgewater.

Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Corey Wingard said an express bus service would help address congestion on the freeway.

But a passenger train is off the agenda.

“The ISA report found that buses have the capacity to meet the forecast demand from the region and are better suited to meet the diverse origin and destination demands of the broader Hills catchment than other options such as rail,” Minister Wingard said.

Minister Wingard said in the event of an accident or breakdown on the Freeway, the $75m extension of the Managed Motorway System – announced by the state government earlier this month – will help manage traffic flow, including a movable barrier to allow contraflow.

Kavel MP, independent Dan Cregan said he welcomed the announcement but question the timeline. 

“While I strongly support investments in Hills public transport, including buses, it is incredible that it will take until 2024 to deliver,” he said.

“My community remains deeply sceptical of promises from this government on bus services after it planned to cut Hills bus routes in 2020. At that time, over 600 people signed our petition to save the 641F bus service.”

“The only thing that has changed is an independent campaign in the Hills now putting real pressure on the government.”

Greens MLC Robert Simms said it was “baffling” the Liberal government continued to rule out trains for the Hills.

“Additional bus services are welcome but a train would provide a really effective, green option for the hills,” he said.

“Why should SA continue to lag behind other states when it comes to a regional train service?”

Mayo MP Rebekha Sharkie said Sunday’s announcement was a band-aid fix for the Hills longstanding transport needs.

“A $19m public transport pledge doesn’t begin to scratch the surface of the level of investment required in the Adelaide Hills to address the needs of our rapidly growing population,” she said.

“It is unclear why the Government is aiming to provide a band-aid fix that won’t be delivered until 2024 when it could be making meaningful strides to establish a permanent rail corridor that will help solve the region’s long-term public transport needs.”

[Waewick]

So how many studies do we have showing a rail corridor is not viable?

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[TorrensSA]

So over 600 people signed a petition to save the non existent "641F" bus. I'm guessing the minister meant 841F.

The train is a nice idea, but it would be a very slow and windy journey.

Adelaide Railway Station to Mount Barker Station is 55km via rail and 35km by road. That's about 60% longer by rail.

[SBD]

An "expert" has said it would only be 55 minutes by railcar between Adelaide and Mount Barker railway stations, including several intermediate stops. This is presented as needing minimal infrastructure changes, and using excess track access so it would not interfere with freight operations.

I'm not sure if the "expert" has any expertise in railway engineering or operations to be confident of safeworking on single track, side clearance of signals and tunnels at various speeds, camber on curves etc. Clearly either the gauge at the ends of the journey needs to be changed, or a third rail needs to be added to the middle part, which makes points much more complex at passing loops, and moves the centre (and hence edges) of the trains about 8cm across.

[Spotto]

An "expert" has said it would only be 55 minutes by railcar between Adelaide and Mount Barker railway stations, including several intermediate stops. This is presented as needing minimal infrastructure changes, and using excess track access so it would not interfere with freight operations.

I'm not sure if the "expert" has any expertise in railway engineering or operations to be confident of safeworking on single track, side clearance of signals and tunnels at various speeds, camber on curves etc. Clearly either the gauge at the ends of the journey needs to be changed, or a third rail needs to be added to the middle part, which makes points much more complex at passing loops, and moves the centre (and hence edges) of the trains about 8cm across.

The gauge into Mount Barker would need to be changed to SG for obvious reasons, but why would the gauge into Adelaide need to change if they were only running trials?

If those empty trials ended up moving to passenger trials, stop the SG train at Goodwood and move passengers over to a dedicated BG express shuttle into ARS. If it proved popular enough to keep, look at converting a set of tracks into ARS for dual gauge operation. Any track changes through Adelaide Yard would be hideously complicated and disruptive, so have the plans ready but don't do it until you know you need it.

For reference, the experts you put in quotations have worked in the industry, one being a former manager of DPTI who now currently runs a transport infrastructure firm.

[Waewick]

An "expert" has said it would only be 55 minutes by railcar between Adelaide and Mount Barker railway stations, including several intermediate stops. This is presented as needing minimal infrastructure changes, and using excess track access so it would not interfere with freight operations.

I'm not sure if the "expert" has any expertise in railway engineering or operations to be confident of safeworking on single track, side clearance of signals and tunnels at various speeds, camber on curves etc. Clearly either the gauge at the ends of the journey needs to be changed, or a third rail needs to be added to the middle part, which makes points much more complex at passing loops, and moves the centre (and hence edges) of the trains about 8cm across.

So an hr Adelaide to Mt Barker which is similar to a bus currently but almost twice a car ride.

You can see why it will be buses in the long term.



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[Eurostar]

An "expert" has said it would only be 55 minutes by railcar between Adelaide and Mount Barker railway stations, including several intermediate stops. This is presented as needing minimal infrastructure changes, and using excess track access so it would not interfere with freight operations.

I'm not sure if the "expert" has any expertise in railway engineering or operations to be confident of safeworking on single track, side clearance of signals and tunnels at various speeds, camber on curves etc. Clearly either the gauge at the ends of the journey needs to be changed, or a third rail needs to be added to the middle part, which makes points much more complex at passing loops, and moves the centre (and hence edges) of the trains about 8cm across.

So an hr Adelaide to Mt Barker which is similar to a bus currently but almost twice a car ride.

You can see why it will be buses in the long term.



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The train would dump people at goodwood or north terrace or a tram could run into city via the existing glenelg line into the centre of the city. Maybe even run along the median of freeway between Bridgewater and Mount Barker.

[1NEEDS2POST]

The comparison shouldn't be between spending X dollars on rail and the current bus. If we spend X dollars on rail, how much better would bus services be if we also spent X dollars on improving bus services? As for rail being the "green" choice, electric buses can also cover this route.

[AG]

The problem with the bus vs rail serving Mt Barker discussion is that it ignores a holistic approach to dealing with transport access and issues through the Adelaide Hills. What about the other towns that could be potentially served by a public transport connection? Also, if there was to be a future bypass for freight of the Adelaide Hills, is there an opportunity to repurpose existing road capacity to other uses (e.g. dedicated bus lanes/busway?).

[Spotto]

The problem with the bus vs rail serving Mt Barker discussion is that it ignores a holistic approach to dealing with transport access and issues through the Adelaide Hills. What about the other towns that could be potentially served by a public transport connection?

This. Buses are great for local inter-connectivity, trains are great for long distances. Bus routes can snake through the Hills then interchange at stations where people going into the city or further out (i.e. Bridgewater to Mount Barker) can catch a much faster train.

Stephan Knoll’s half-baked on demand bus scheme in the Barossa would’ve been significantly improved if the rail corridor was in use to support it.

[Patrick_27]

The problem with the bus vs rail serving Mt Barker discussion is that it ignores a holistic approach to dealing with transport access and issues through the Adelaide Hills. What about the other towns that could be potentially served by a public transport connection?

This. Buses are great for local inter-connectivity, trains are great for long distances. Bus routes can snake through the Hills then interchange at stations where people going into the city or further out (i.e. Bridgewater to Mount Barker) can catch a much faster train.

Stephan Knoll’s half-baked on demand bus scheme in the Barossa would’ve been significantly improved if the rail corridor was in use to support it.

I'm sure this is the case for a lot of cities, but can speak for the fact that this is how Melbourne's PT network works. Adelaide's bus network is so prominent because it makes up for the bulk of our PT offering. In Melbourne, unless you've lived there, have visited regularly or are conscious of such things (like I imagine most people on this forum) wouldn't realise that Melbourne has a rather large and extensive bus network, it's because it interwinds with their light/heavy rail network so much so that there are maybe three or four bus routes (from my experience) that actually travel through the CBD from one side of the metro Melbourne to the other, and even then they still feed off of the rail networks.

[Alyx]

A leading European train manufacturer says it will fund a $2.5m trial to prove a passenger rail service between Mount Barker and Adelaide is viable.

Talgo, known for its production and distribution of high-speed trains, is calling on the State Government to grant its support for a passenger rail trial to prove an express service could be run within 45 minutes, opposed to the Infrastructure SA’s 71 minute estimate.

The 26 minute reduction is based on modelling of Talgo’s rolling stock on the Australian Rail Track Corporation line.

Head of business development Jesus Rodriguez said the trial would come at no cost to the Australian taxpayers with funds to be obtained via Fondo para la Internacionalización de la Empresa, a grant scheme managed by the Spanish State Secretary for Trade.

“The first step will be to get the local government involved, in this case, the South Australian government and once we get (the letter), we will get the proposal to the Spanish embassy...to get the green light (and) get the funds that we need for this trial,” Mr Rodriguez said.

“There will be a pool of projects that we will be competing with but we are quite positive that we will be valued and that we could get this funding from the government of Spain.

“We have done similar successful trials in other countries, including the United States, Russia, Kazakhstan and India...and now we want to come to South Australia.”

Mr Rodriguez said Talgo would deliver the project in partnership with former SA transport department bureaucrat Luigi Rossi and aerospace engineer Edwin Michell.

The duo have been campaigning for fast trains since 2018 and recently presented Infrastructure SA with a $150m rail proposal between Mount Barker and Adelaide.

“A lot of people have been working on this proposal for a long time and we are now in discussions with the ARTC to gain access to the freight corridor for the purpose of this trial,” Mr Rossi said.

“For now, however, what we really need is to get the letter of support to enable Talgo’s funding application to proceed.”

Shadow Minister for Transport and Infrastructure Tom Koutsantonis said Labor would back the trail should it win the election.

“Labor is prepared to see if this technology can work, especially since the Talgo trial would be at no cost to the taxpayer.”

Transport Minister Corey Wingard said a detailed proposal had not yet been received.

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/messenge ... 388f2b76e6

[Spotto]

What’s the catch? It’s nice of them to fully fund the trials at no immediate cost to the state, but nothing’s ever truly free.

Will we be required to buy their trains if we do start a passenger service based on their trials? Buy their trains if we ever start any regional intercity services (e.g. Murray Bridge, the Iron Triangle)? Be a privatised operator of said routes?