Federal election 2022

[Nort]

"If you're not voting Greens, you're actually a horrible person" - Something a Greens voter would say.

Greens voter here, according to the poll there are quite a few of us who have been in this thread, and I haven't seen any posts like that in this thread?

At least we can all agree it's good that no-one seems to be supporting Palmers Vanity Party yet.

You don't seem like a Greens voter...
I am more impressed nobody in South Australia votes for the National party. They treat us South Aussies like crap and it was a wonder they even tried to be in the State election.

I suspect that's more that your perception of what a Greens voter is doesn't entirely match the reality.

[rubberman]

So in other words when you stop beating around the bush, they are no different to the two major parties.

Both Labor and Liberal spend and spend and spend. We're currently in a trillion dollars of debt.
Both have policies that when you take away the spin you're left with shit.

You can't seriously sit there with a straight face and say that Labor or Liberal are fiscally responsible, or that their policies have improved day to day lives of Australians.

And no, we don't need a government lead by a major party.
Society is just conditioned to think Labor and Liberal are the only options for government.

Well today we have four options.


People cant afford rent.
People can't afford to buy a house.
People can't afford to buy groceries.
People can't afford petrol.
Utilities keep going up.
Our manufacturing is all but dead except for some niche areas.
Health care systems are stuffed, ramping isn't just an SA thing btw.
Wages have stagnated. Unless you're a politician.
The list goes on. These are constant problems.
Constant problems the two major parties never fix.
They have bandaid solutions to get them through to the next election where they promise you the same thing.


Maybe its time for a change?

Personally I'd like my kids to live in an Australia where they can afford to buy a house on their own without mummy and daddy helping with deposits.
Id like my kids to grow up in an Australia where they can go to a supermarket and not have to worry if they can afford to fucking eat this week.
To go to a hospital and know they'll be treated, and not left in pain because there's not enough doctors nurses or beds, and worrying if they can afford it.

Maybe you're priorities are different.
Maybe you still believe Labor or Liberal will fix what they say they will.

Im sure you still don't believe in the tooth fairy though.


And no, I'm not saying UAP or ON will be better. But they certainly couldn't be any worse then the garbage we've been dealt by Liberal and Labor for decades. Maybe a kick in the ass is what they need.

UAP and ON certainly would be worse than Liberal or Labor. They are literally full of crazies. Your list of problems is real, but electing batshit crazy lunatics isn't going to address that. However, getting a few extra independents into formerly safe major party electorates would make the major parties take notice.

Sorry, I haven't had a detailed look at their policies to call them bat shit crazy. I assume you have.

Can you list their policies and detail the bat shit crazy in them?


Independents? That isn't going to cut it.
They are bought off by either of the major parties and whatever "stance" they had is compromised in favour of a promise from whatever major party, that never materializes just like their election promises to the people.

Well, that's easy enough. For One Nation, they propose tariffs. Those have been comprehensively debunked, because:

They are extremely inefficient taxes meaning lots of public servants' wages taking up a lot of the tax.

They greatly increase costs of living by making everything more expensive. That's the aim of them, to make things more expensive. So, if you really mean things being too expensive as you say in your list, then ON policies won't work, literally batshit crazy to say here's a policy to increase costs, but it will reduce them. Nuts.

They also attract retaliatory tariffs from other countries. That means our exports get hit. Since we are a trading nation, that's also crazy.

Next, ON wants to limit overseas investment. Ok. So, if that's limited, and we want to build up our own industry, and we don't want to increase the deficit (all things in your list), where's the money come from?

Then there's Clive. One of the big drags on the Australian economy is the so-called Dutch Disease. That's a big mining sector that pays little tax, employs relatively few people, and artificially raises the exchange rate. What that means is that industry in Australia that does employ people is priced out of the market because imports are cheaper by a bit and exports are more expensive by a bit. Therefore those industries are choked, plus it fuels inflation. Then, once those industries are choked out of existence, there's fewer places for retirees to invest. So, what do they do? Invest in housing, driving up prices. I had a relly who got out of industrial shares in the early 2000s and bought property. Why? Most of the companies he held shipped overseas. By investing in property, he made bank, but also helped drive up property prices. Clive Palmer campained against reforms here. Great for Clive and Gina and Andrew, of course, batshit crazy for the rest of us.

[rev]

Well, that's easy enough. For One Nation, they propose tariffs. Those have been comprehensively debunked, because:

They are extremely inefficient taxes meaning lots of public servants' wages taking up a lot of the tax.

They greatly increase costs of living by making everything more expensive. That's the aim of them, to make things more expensive. So, if you really mean things being too expensive as you say in your list, then ON policies won't work, literally batshit crazy to say here's a policy to increase costs, but it will reduce them. Nuts.

They also attract retaliatory tariffs from other countries. That means our exports get hit. Since we are a trading nation, that's also crazy.

The government absolutely should have imposed tariffs on China in response to their tariffs.
The tariffs they've put on our wine for example are good. They have forced our wine exporters to spread their wings instead of relying on China.

Would putting tariffs on goods imported from China raise prices? Of course. Short term pain if there's a national focus on restoring our manufacturing sector.
We should be manufacturing as much as possible right here in Australia.
Blah blah blah its going to make consumer products more expensive. It's also going to create jobs and more money will be circulating within our own economy instead of most of it going offshore.
Even Japan has woken up and started returning manufacturing from China back home.

Next, ON wants to limit overseas investment. Ok. So, if that's limited, and we want to build up our own industry, and we don't want to increase the deficit (all things in your list), where's the money come from?

Depends, where's that investment coming from? A hostile country like China that threatens to shoot down our planes and sink our ships in International air space and waters? Then it should not only be limited, but existing investments should be seized and port leases cancelled. Even more so since China passed a law that requires all Chinese companies, even those operating abroad, to cooperate with it's intelligence agencies on demand to aid the CCP. Do you think a Chinese company cooperating with Chinese intelligence to aid the CCP is a benefit to Australia?

Where's the money going to come from? So, where did the money come from before? We have our own currency still yes? Or have I missed the bulletin where Australia no longer mints it's own money..

Then there's Clive. One of the big drags on the Australian economy is the so-called Dutch Disease. That's a big mining sector that pays little tax, employs relatively few people, and artificially raises the exchange rate. What that means is that industry in Australia that does employ people is priced out of the market because imports are cheaper by a bit and exports are more expensive by a bit. Therefore those industries are choked, plus it fuels inflation. Then, once those industries are choked out of existence, there's fewer places for retirees to invest. So, what do they do? Invest in housing, driving up prices. I had a relly who got out of industrial shares in the early 2000s and bought property. Why? Most of the companies he held shipped overseas. By investing in property, he made bank, but also helped drive up property prices. Clive Palmer campained against reforms here. Great for Clive and Gina and Andrew, of course, batshit crazy for the rest of us.

And why do they pay little tax? Why do major foreign corporations pay little to no tax despite operating in Australia?
Whose been in power all these decades? The two major parties, backed up by the Greens and Nationals.
They've made the policies, they've had their pockets filled by "corporate donors".


UAP or ON may not do better then Labor or Liberal, they certainly couldn't do any worse in fucking up the country. They may not fix the problems that the two majors continue to promise to fix every election, but if you wanted to lodge a protest vote, and enough people did, it would send a rocket up the two majors backsides, perhaps enough to get one of them to pull their finger out.

I don't know I don't have a crystal ball so I can't say they will be better or worse, what I do know is that what politicians say when their not in government and what they do in government are often two different things.

What I do know though, is what really is batshit crazy is voting for one of two major parties, or two minor parties that support them, hoping that this time around they will deliver on their promises.

But when there's a media monopoly in this country...

[rev]

Foreign Ownership
One Nation will pursue urgent reform to Australia’s foreign investment rules by legislating a clear definition of ‘National Interest' based on national security, competition, tax, a character test, and any other impacts to Australia. Essential services including power, water, telecommunications, roadways, and ports would be off-limits to foreign investors. With a crucial shortage of housing stock in Australia, we must stop the sale of property to non-residents and non-citizens.

World Organisations And Trade Agreements
The Australian Constitution must be upheld at all times and not undermined by United Nations forums and its 193 member states. One Nation does not support the World Economic Forum’s 'Great Reset'.

Free Trade Agreements that function against the best interest of Australian’s must also be scrapped. Import tariffs should be reimplemented on select countries to protect Australia's remaining industry and manufacturing while safeguarding homegrown jobs and wage levels.

Here's One Nations policies on foreign ownership and tariffs. Seems you weren't exactly honest in your post.

[rubberman]

Well, that's easy enough. For One Nation, they propose tariffs. Those have been comprehensively debunked, because:

They are extremely inefficient taxes meaning lots of public servants' wages taking up a lot of the tax.

They greatly increase costs of living by making everything more expensive. That's the aim of them, to make things more expensive. So, if you really mean things being too expensive as you say in your list, then ON policies won't work, literally batshit crazy to say here's a policy to increase costs, but it will reduce them. Nuts.

They also attract retaliatory tariffs from other countries. That means our exports get hit. Since we are a trading nation, that's also crazy.

The government absolutely should have imposed tariffs on China in response to their tariffs.
The tariffs they've put on our wine for example are good. They have forced our wine exporters to spread their wings instead of relying on China.

Would putting tariffs on goods imported from China raise prices? Of course. Short term pain if there's a national focus on restoring our manufacturing sector.
We should be manufacturing as much as possible right here in Australia.
Blah blah blah its going to make consumer products more expensive. It's also going to create jobs and more money will be circulating within our own economy instead of most of it going offshore.
Even Japan has woken up and started returning manufacturing from China back home.

Next, ON wants to limit overseas investment. Ok. So, if that's limited, and we want to build up our own industry, and we don't want to increase the deficit (all things in your list), where's the money come from?

Depends, where's that investment coming from? A hostile country like China that threatens to shoot down our planes and sink our ships in International air space and waters? Then it should not only be limited, but existing investments should be seized and port leases cancelled. Even more so since China passed a law that requires all Chinese companies, even those operating abroad, to cooperate with it's intelligence agencies on demand to aid the CCP. Do you think a Chinese company cooperating with Chinese intelligence to aid the CCP is a benefit to Australia?

Where's the money going to come from? So, where did the money come from before? We have our own currency still yes? Or have I missed the bulletin where Australia no longer mints it's own money..

Then there's Clive. One of the big drags on the Australian economy is the so-called Dutch Disease. That's a big mining sector that pays little tax, employs relatively few people, and artificially raises the exchange rate. What that means is that industry in Australia that does employ people is priced out of the market because imports are cheaper by a bit and exports are more expensive by a bit. Therefore those industries are choked, plus it fuels inflation. Then, once those industries are choked out of existence, there's fewer places for retirees to invest. So, what do they do? Invest in housing, driving up prices. I had a relly who got out of industrial shares in the early 2000s and bought property. Why? Most of the companies he held shipped overseas. By investing in property, he made bank, but also helped drive up property prices. Clive Palmer campained against reforms here. Great for Clive and Gina and Andrew, of course, batshit crazy for the rest of us.

And why do they pay little tax? Why do major foreign corporations pay little to no tax despite operating in Australia?
Whose been in power all these decades? The two major parties, backed up by the Greens and Nationals.
They've made the policies, they've had their pockets filled by "corporate donors".


UAP or ON may not do better then Labor or Liberal, they certainly couldn't do any worse in fucking up the country. They may not fix the problems that the two majors continue to promise to fix every election, but if you wanted to lodge a protest vote, and enough people did, it would send a rocket up the two majors backsides, perhaps enough to get one of them to pull their finger out.

I don't know I don't have a crystal ball so I can't say they will be better or worse, what I do know is that what politicians say when their not in government and what they do in government are often two different things.

What I do know though, is what really is batshit crazy is voting for one of two major parties, or two minor parties that support them, hoping that this time around they will deliver on their promises.

But when there's a media monopoly in this country...

I literally explained why their policies would do worse economically. Now, obviously you are entitled to an opinion, but you haven't really advanced an argument. As for major parties not doing anything, Labor put up that mining super tax to fix the problems I (and almost every single economist agrees with) in regards to the Dutch Disease. Guess who opposed it? Palmer and Pauline for a start. For their own direct benefit.

An informal vote is better than a vote for either ON or UAP. Their policies would see inflation rocket and trade slump, putting millions out of work. Personally, it's independents that have most chance of achieving change without the sheer damage that ON and UAP would cause.

[rev]

Greens will push to allow flood victims to sue coal and gas companies if they hold balance of power
The Greens will announce a plan that would allow flood victims to sue coal and gas companies if they hold the balance of power after the election.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/envi ... df2ea011ae

This is, by far, the stupidest thing I've ever seen from politicians in this country.
The Greens are nothing more then extremists, they have no place in our parliament or democracy.

[rev]

https://icacpls.github.io/index.html

Outrageous.


Here's some stand outs.
https://icacpls.github.io/expenses/2019 ... espie.html

This guy has nearly 20 properties, 6 figure tax payer funded salary, and still manages to rack up expenses worth tens of thousands..billed to we, the tax payers of course.

https://icacpls.github.io/expenses/2019 ... atale.html
Mr Greens over here with his trust fund, had 26 staffers rack up nearly $100k in travel. Paid for by us.


These clowns we call politicians, are well into the 6 figure salary range.
Yet they all bill us the tax payers, with expenses worth tens of thousands every year.
The six figure salary in excess of $200,000 is not enough for them I guess.

Keep voting for the same old bastards guys.
I'm sure this time you'll get a different result, I'm sure all promises will be kept, no spin doctoring to get out of any promises later

[Nort]

Greens will push to allow flood victims to sue coal and gas companies if they hold balance of power
The Greens will announce a plan that would allow flood victims to sue coal and gas companies if they hold the balance of power after the election.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/envi ... df2ea011ae

This is, by far, the stupidest thing I've ever seen from politicians in this country.
The Greens are nothing more then extremists, they have no place in our parliament or democracy.

Your outrage at extremists who have no place in our parliament or democracy would come off better if you weren't advocating for ON and UAP being viable alternatives.

[HiTouch]

Greens will push to allow flood victims to sue coal and gas companies if they hold balance of power
The Greens will announce a plan that would allow flood victims to sue coal and gas companies if they hold the balance of power after the election.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/envi ... df2ea011ae

This is, by far, the stupidest thing I've ever seen from politicians in this country.
The Greens are nothing more then extremists, they have no place in our parliament or democracy.

I'm surprised you're defending ON and UAP. Even though they say they're "nationalist", their interests are very Queensland "regional" minded (pro-coal, pro-cotton, anti-immigration) and they really don't have South Australia's interests in mind. Queensland's economy is very different to South Australia's. For South Australia to function, it needs MORE immigration not less. It's becoming renewable-reliant (or at least gas orientated) and there's no cotton industry. Why would a South Aussie want any of what ON or UAP are offering? I honestly would have thought you were a "centre alliance" type person.

[[Shuz]]

[HiTouch]

I wouldn't be surprised if you considered these parties too liberal. We all know how far you swing.

[rubberman]

https://icacpls.github.io/index.html

Outrageous.


Here's some stand outs.
https://icacpls.github.io/expenses/2019 ... espie.html

This guy has nearly 20 properties, 6 figure tax payer funded salary, and still manages to rack up expenses worth tens of thousands..billed to we, the tax payers of course.

https://icacpls.github.io/expenses/2019 ... atale.html
Mr Greens over here with his trust fund, had 26 staffers rack up nearly $100k in travel. Paid for by us.


These clowns we call politicians, are well into the 6 figure salary range.
Yet they all bill us the tax payers, with expenses worth tens of thousands every year.
The six figure salary in excess of $200,000 is not enough for them I guess.

Keep voting for the same old bastards guys.
I'm sure this time you'll get a different result, I'm sure all promises will be kept, no spin doctoring to get out of any promises later

I see your logic in not supporting the existing parties.

There are alternatives that are nowhere near as loopy as ON and UAP.

For example:

https://www.fusionparty.org.au/policy


https://www.fedparty.org.au/

[rev]

https://icacpls.github.io/index.html

Outrageous.


Here's some stand outs.
https://icacpls.github.io/expenses/2019 ... espie.html

This guy has nearly 20 properties, 6 figure tax payer funded salary, and still manages to rack up expenses worth tens of thousands..billed to we, the tax payers of course.

https://icacpls.github.io/expenses/2019 ... atale.html
Mr Greens over here with his trust fund, had 26 staffers rack up nearly $100k in travel. Paid for by us.


These clowns we call politicians, are well into the 6 figure salary range.
Yet they all bill us the tax payers, with expenses worth tens of thousands every year.
The six figure salary in excess of $200,000 is not enough for them I guess.

Keep voting for the same old bastards guys.
I'm sure this time you'll get a different result, I'm sure all promises will be kept, no spin doctoring to get out of any promises later

I see your logic in not supporting the existing parties.

There are alternatives that are nowhere near as loopy as ON and UAP.

For example:

https://www.fusionparty.org.au/policy


https://www.fedparty.org.au/

It's not that I support One Nation or UAP, I don't.
But Australia needs a change, it needs a major shake up.
We aren't going to get that shake up by keeping Liberal/Nationals or Labor/Greens in power. We aren't going to get it either with getting independents in to hold some balance of power, because we have seen over the years that the "independents" will be easily swayed by the government of the day to support whatever the government of the day wants, in exchange for a minor change here or there to a policy, and giving them what they want on one key issue separate from the policy the government wants passed.

Haven't we tried all that before?
What we haven't tried is someone else in government besides the two majors and their support in the Nationals and Greens.

I'm under no illusion that PHON or UAP will do any better, I don't think they'll do any worse. The reality of being in government to being outside of it and running their mouths would dawn on them pretty quick.
But, I see it as a step in pushing at least one of the two majors in a better direction.
Because right now, they don't care. They know the majority will vote for them, or fuck up their vote in a way that sees them getting the vote anyway. They are too complacent.

At the very least we need PHON or UAP to have a good showing in this election to at least put an almighty scare up the two major parties, as it stands they think that they are guaranteed to get in either government or opposition, both of which pay very well.
And I say PHON or UAP because they are the two other parties that are running in every electorate this year.

[rev]

Greens will push to allow flood victims to sue coal and gas companies if they hold balance of power
The Greens will announce a plan that would allow flood victims to sue coal and gas companies if they hold the balance of power after the election.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/envi ... df2ea011ae

This is, by far, the stupidest thing I've ever seen from politicians in this country.
The Greens are nothing more then extremists, they have no place in our parliament or democracy.

Your outrage at extremists who have no place in our parliament or democracy would come off better if you weren't advocating for ON and UAP being viable alternatives.

You'd do well to actually pay attention for a change.

[rubberman]

https://icacpls.github.io/index.html

Outrageous.


Here's some stand outs.
https://icacpls.github.io/expenses/2019 ... espie.html

This guy has nearly 20 properties, 6 figure tax payer funded salary, and still manages to rack up expenses worth tens of thousands..billed to we, the tax payers of course.

https://icacpls.github.io/expenses/2019 ... atale.html
Mr Greens over here with his trust fund, had 26 staffers rack up nearly $100k in travel. Paid for by us.


These clowns we call politicians, are well into the 6 figure salary range.
Yet they all bill us the tax payers, with expenses worth tens of thousands every year.
The six figure salary in excess of $200,000 is not enough for them I guess.

Keep voting for the same old bastards guys.
I'm sure this time you'll get a different result, I'm sure all promises will be kept, no spin doctoring to get out of any promises later

I see your logic in not supporting the existing parties.

There are alternatives that are nowhere near as loopy as ON and UAP.

For example:

https://www.fusionparty.org.au/policy


https://www.fedparty.org.au/

It's not that I support One Nation or UAP, I don't.
But Australia needs a change, it needs a major shake up.
We aren't going to get that shake up by keeping Liberal/Nationals or Labor/Greens in power. We aren't going to get it either with getting independents in to hold some balance of power, because we have seen over the years that the "independents" will be easily swayed by the government of the day to support whatever the government of the day wants, in exchange for a minor change here or there to a policy, and giving them what they want on one key issue separate from the policy the government wants passed.

Haven't we tried all that before?
What we haven't tried is someone else in government besides the two majors and their support in the Nationals and Greens.

I'm under no illusion that PHON or UAP will do any better, I don't think they'll do any worse. The reality of being in government to being outside of it and running their mouths would dawn on them pretty quick.
But, I see it as a step in pushing at least one of the two majors in a better direction.
Because right now, they don't care. They know the majority will vote for them, or fuck up their vote in a way that sees them getting the vote anyway. They are too complacent.

At the very least we need PHON or UAP to have a good showing in this election to at least put an almighty scare up the two major parties, as it stands they think that they are guaranteed to get in either government or opposition, both of which pay very well.
And I say PHON or UAP because they are the two other parties that are running in every electorate this year.

If ON and UAP did manage to put a scare up the major parties, the end result would be those parties moving toward ON and UAP policies. Frankly, that's the last thing Australia needs.

ON has been going for 25 years. It hasn't swayed policy any more than independents in reality.

If we want to shake up the major parties, then we might as well shake them up by voting for candidates whose policies we agree with. I can't see any point in voting for candidates or parties whose policy is crazy. Either they aren't elected and the vote is wasted, or they are, and we end up with crazy policies.