The Housing Crisis

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rev
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Re: The Housing Crisis

#46 Post by rev » Fri Mar 22, 2024 6:23 pm

Every country's economy requires growth. To tie economic growth to migration is a mistake.

Does Japan or Singapore require massive immigration for continued economic growth?
When Japan's economy slows, have they opened their borders to third world migrants with fake r sub standard qualifications, to "students" who are more interested in rorting the system to skip the migration queue and sneak in the back door on a "student" visa (and when they end up staying then bring over their entire family particularly elderly people who clog up the health care system) ?

Instead of being a nation that says Yes we can, yes we can do this, build that, design and develop things, somewhere along the way it was decided that we'd just flog off our industries and import people to drive growth.

The education system is a joke and has been for over 20 years.
They're opening up a technical school here or there, but other then a news bite when its announced you don't hear anything about it.

They had the naval ship building college at Osborne. Another rort? Its gone now, and barely got off the ground.

2010 Singapore GDP $239 billion USD, 2023 $497 billion USD
2010 Singapore population 5.08 million, 2023 5.66 million

2002 Japan GDP $4.18 trillion, 2012 $6.27 trillion
2002 Japan population 127.4 million, 2012 127.55 million


The fact our governments and corporates and media have conditioned people to believe we need migrants for continued economic growth is sad. Its sold as if its a good thing for us, but our wages have declined (biggest decline in OECD), cost of living is out of control, housing is next to impossible to get into for most. Shouldn't we be better off with continued economic growth? The corporates certainly are, our politicians are certainly better off with bigger and bigger pay increases.

Its a huge cop out, and shows how lazy and incompetent they are.
They have no plan or vision for Australia other then growing the population artificially.
Its the only way they can grow the population now, because things have become so bad there's no chance couples can dream of starting a family or having more then a kid or two at most if they're lucky because they both have to work, the cost of everything including child care is astronomical and outrageous.
Its become unaffordable to have kids.

I wonder how long it will take most to realise how broken this country is.

abc
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Re: The Housing Crisis

#47 Post by abc » Fri Mar 22, 2024 6:30 pm

gnrc_louis wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 4:28 pm
rev wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 3:53 pm
gnrc_louis wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 2:11 pm
Lol no one sensible is saying Negative Gearing is the only cause of the housing crisis. It's a combination of a range of factors, including Negative Gearing, ongoing high immigration, capital gains tax changes two decades ago, NIMBY groups blocking development in many areas, problems with the planning system more broadly etc etc.

All of these things have driven up demand for housing for both buying and renting. It's like almost any issue in the world - the reasons are multifaceted, and its dishonest to blame any single thing.
Well most of us know it's a combination of factors, and that issues existed before now. But most of us also understand that the ridiculously high immigration numbers are exacerbating the situation to levels we've never seen in Australia.
While others just want to pretend that getting rid of negative gearing will fix the problem, as they've stated or alluded to.

Its pretty much what I've been saying, that we don't need these mass migration numbers at the moment for various reasons. We don't have anywhere to house these people let alone all the people here already.
They're not the economic boon for the country we're lead to believe, and many aren't even here for the reasons they pretend to be, and many aren't actually skilled migrants to begin with. It's a sham, we're being rorted. And instead of people being angry and demanding something be done, because this shit is 100% making things in this country much worse then they need to be (and we don't need all these extra people), some people will make excuses.


A couple of apartment buildings in Glenelg that have been blocked by nimybys aren't going to fix the housing or rental crisis in Adelaide, they'd barely make any noticeable impact.
I don't know about the planning system being a factor, maybe you can elaborate on that further would be interested to know how you think it's a factor.
The Australian economy relies on constant ongoing growth, which in turn relies on ongoing migration due to a relatively low birth rate. Lowering of migration needs to be part of a conversation about the economic system more broadly imo, which includes the demand for ongoing growth as a metric of success.

In terms of migration now, there is clearly demand for skilled migrants. I have often met with companies as part of jobs I've had, and they all have the issue of being unable to recruit skilled workers in Australia, instead needing to find these overseas. This again ties into bigger questions around the education system etc. As for unskilled migration, well governments like them because see above - they help with economic growth.I can't see any of the major parties being capable of having a broader discussion around this, without it descending into the usual political shitfight.

It isn't just a "couple" though, it's a much larger systemic problem: https://www.afr.com/property/residentia ... 515-p5d8d3 primarily due to councils siding with NIMBYs and blocking projects
why not encourage increasing the birth rate as other nations are doing, instead of making it more difficult and conditioning young people to have sex changes

mattblack
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Re: The Housing Crisis

#48 Post by mattblack » Fri Mar 22, 2024 7:33 pm

rev wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 6:23 pm
Every country's economy requires growth. To tie economic growth to migration is a mistake.

Does Japan or Singapore require massive immigration for continued economic growth?
When Japan's economy slows, have they opened their borders to third world migrants with fake r sub standard qualifications, to "students" who are more interested in rorting the system to skip the migration queue and sneak in the back door on a "student" visa (and when they end up staying then bring over their entire family particularly elderly people who clog up the health care system) ?

Instead of being a nation that says Yes we can, yes we can do this, build that, design and develop things, somewhere along the way it was decided that we'd just flog off our industries and import people to drive growth.

The education system is a joke and has been for over 20 years.
They're opening up a technical school here or there, but other then a news bite when its announced you don't hear anything about it.

They had the naval ship building college at Osborne. Another rort? Its gone now, and barely got off the ground.

2010 Singapore GDP $239 billion USD, 2023 $497 billion USD
2010 Singapore population 5.08 million, 2023 5.66 million

2002 Japan GDP $4.18 trillion, 2012 $6.27 trillion
2002 Japan population 127.4 million, 2012 127.55 million


The fact our governments and corporates and media have conditioned people to believe we need migrants for continued economic growth is sad. Its sold as if its a good thing for us, but our wages have declined (biggest decline in OECD), cost of living is out of control, housing is next to impossible to get into for most. Shouldn't we be better off with continued economic growth? The corporates certainly are, our politicians are certainly better off with bigger and bigger pay increases.

Its a huge cop out, and shows how lazy and incompetent they are.
They have no plan or vision for Australia other then growing the population artificially.
Its the only way they can grow the population now, because things have become so bad there's no chance couples can dream of starting a family or having more then a kid or two at most if they're lucky because they both have to work, the cost of everything including child care is astronomical and outrageous.
Its become unaffordable to have kids.

I wonder how long it will take most to realise how broken this country is.
Why wouldn't you state that the JapNese population is falling by nearly 2 million and now 125 million with a GDP of 4.2 trillion which is about a 25% fall. Thats a little disingenuous. They are in deep trouble because of their ageing population.

rev
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Re: The Housing Crisis

#49 Post by rev » Fri Mar 22, 2024 8:13 pm

mattblack wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 7:33 pm
Why wouldn't you state that the JapNese population is falling by nearly 2 million and now 125 million with a GDP of 4.2 trillion which is about a 25% fall. Thats a little disingenuous. They are in deep trouble because of their ageing population.
I'm aware of their ageing population.
The point was that they've managed to continue to grow their economy without flooding their country with migrants.

Japan will be just fine. They're not self loathing idiots like our country.

mattblack
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Re: The Housing Crisis

#50 Post by mattblack » Fri Mar 22, 2024 10:09 pm

rev wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 8:13 pm
mattblack wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 7:33 pm
Why wouldn't you state that the JapNese population is falling by nearly 2 million and now 125 million with a GDP of 4.2 trillion which is about a 25% fall. Thats a little disingenuous. They are in deep trouble because of their ageing population.
I'm aware of their ageing population.
The point was that they've managed to continue to grow their economy without flooding their country with migrants.

Japan will be just fine. They're not self loathing idiots like our country.
That I agree with! So much to be enthused about and instead there is constant negativity.
Last edited by mattblack on Fri Mar 22, 2024 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

abc
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Re: The Housing Crisis

#51 Post by abc » Fri Mar 22, 2024 10:10 pm

Australia's falling birth rate is a direct result of social engineering combined with the cost of living.

rubberman
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Re: The Housing Crisis

#52 Post by rubberman » Sun Mar 24, 2024 10:56 am

Australia's falling birth rate is a direct result of high house prices and job insecurity.

abc
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Re: The Housing Crisis

#53 Post by abc » Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:20 am

rubberman wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 10:56 am
Australia's falling birth rate is a direct result of high house prices and job insecurity.
its been falling since the 70's ace

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Re: The Housing Crisis

#54 Post by rubberman » Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:37 am

abc wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:20 am
rubberman wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 10:56 am
Australia's falling birth rate is a direct result of high house prices and job insecurity.
its been falling since the 70's ace
Correct. Australian house prices rising in real terms over the same time as birth rates fall. It's almost as if there's a connection between them...ace.

abc
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Re: The Housing Crisis

#55 Post by abc » Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:59 am

rubberman wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:37 am
abc wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:20 am
rubberman wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 10:56 am
Australia's falling birth rate is a direct result of high house prices and job insecurity.
its been falling since the 70's ace
Correct. Australian house prices rising in real terms over the same time as birth rates fall. It's almost as if there's a connection between them...ace.
No, house prices have risen sharply ahead of inflation and the long term trend over the past few years.
Social engineering and cost of living caused the birth rates to fall. That social engineering came from the left.

rubberman
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Re: The Housing Crisis

#56 Post by rubberman » Sun Mar 24, 2024 12:34 pm

abc wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:59 am
rubberman wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:37 am
abc wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:20 am


its been falling since the 70's ace
Correct. Australian house prices rising in real terms over the same time as birth rates fall. It's almost as if there's a connection between them...ace.
No, house prices have risen sharply ahead of inflation and the long term trend over the past few years.
Social engineering and cost of living caused the birth rates to fall. That social engineering came from the left.
Simply untrue. One google away, and data absolutely refuting your assertion is to be found. House prices have been rising steadily over the period from the seventies.

https://matusik.com.au/2021/07/06/140-y ... rice-data/

You are just imagining things. If you are going to try to convince people of rather fanciful theories, at least try something that can't be debunked in ten seconds. It really creates credibility issues.

abc
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Re: The Housing Crisis

#57 Post by abc » Sun Mar 24, 2024 2:15 pm

rubberman wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 12:34 pm
abc wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:59 am
rubberman wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:37 am


Correct. Australian house prices rising in real terms over the same time as birth rates fall. It's almost as if there's a connection between them...ace.
No, house prices have risen sharply ahead of inflation and the long term trend over the past few years.
Social engineering and cost of living caused the birth rates to fall. That social engineering came from the left.
Simply untrue. One google away, and data absolutely refuting your assertion is to be found. House prices have been rising steadily over the period from the seventies.

https://matusik.com.au/2021/07/06/140-y ... rice-data/

You are just imagining things. If you are going to try to convince people of rather fanciful theories, at least try something that can't be debunked in ten seconds. It really creates credibility issues.
Are you struggling with English comprehension?

rubberman
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Re: The Housing Crisis

#58 Post by rubberman » Sun Mar 24, 2024 3:06 pm

abc wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 2:15 pm
rubberman wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 12:34 pm
abc wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 11:59 am


No, house prices have risen sharply ahead of inflation and the long term trend over the past few years.
Social engineering and cost of living caused the birth rates to fall. That social engineering came from the left.
Simply untrue. One google away, and data absolutely refuting your assertion is to be found. House prices have been rising steadily over the period from the seventies.

https://matusik.com.au/2021/07/06/140-y ... rice-data/

You are just imagining things. If you are going to try to convince people of rather fanciful theories, at least try something that can't be debunked in ten seconds. It really creates credibility issues.
Are you struggling with English comprehension?
Nope. Just inviting others who might be interested to check it out and decide whim to believe in future. You are free to believe whatever you like. Others may be interested in finding out the facts. You have no problem with that, surely?

abc
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Re: The Housing Crisis

#59 Post by abc » Sun Mar 24, 2024 3:28 pm

abc wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 10:10 pm
Australia's falling birth rate is a direct result of social engineering combined with the cost of living.
look how far rubberman (not sure why anyone would call themselves this given what goes in rubbers) has deviated and deflected from the original statement which he cannot disprove

rubberman
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Re: The Housing Crisis

#60 Post by rubberman » Sun Mar 24, 2024 3:54 pm

abc wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2024 3:28 pm
abc wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 10:10 pm
Australia's falling birth rate is a direct result of social engineering combined with the cost of living.
look how far rubberman (not sure why anyone would call themselves this given what goes in rubbers) has deviated and deflected from the original statement which he cannot disprove
Lol.

I said nothing about your assertion. You make an assertion. You prove it. That's a "you" problem. You asserted it without proof. It's just your opinion, which you are quite entitled to.

My statement was that Australia's falling birth rate was a direct result of factors such as the increased real cost of housing. That means that it takes couples longer to save up, and therefore it reduces the window of childbearing age. That is, a direct line between the reason I gave, and the falling birth rate.

Like you, I made an assertion. Unlike you, I backed it up with a reason.

So, people can either believe an assertion with no logic offered to back it up, or one that joins the dots between house prices and lower birth rates.

I rather think that if all you have done is make an assertion, then you need to back it up.

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