News & Discussion: Trams

[claybro]

"There is nothing to fear from the aesthetic view point," an RAA spokesman said, according to The Advertiser. "The new car parks promise to be more attractive aesthetically than the present park lands."

So the parklands looked the same 60 years ago then?

[citywatcher]

Very little work done the past few weeks on the footpaths
All designed to leave a bad taste in the mouth re trams no doubt

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[Waewick]

Personally outside stinking hot days, i can't see why people wouldn't walk from South Terrace to CBD proper.

Its not that far.

[Norman]

Personally outside stinking hot days, i can't see why people wouldn't walk from South Terrace to CBD proper.

Its not that far.

Some people would have mobility issues, especially with a more obese and ageing population.

[citywatcher]

Good exercise
I would prefer to walk but some people may be in a hurry and if a tram is going past of course there would be stops along the way

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[Waewick]

Personally outside stinking hot days, i can't see why people wouldn't walk from South Terrace to CBD proper.

Its not that far.

Some people would have mobility issues, especially with a more obese and ageing population.

yeah fair point I guess I meant people without those issues.

[rubberman]

I could see that underground parks with parkland on top would work. It would also make the parkland accessible on weekends too.

A CBD based tram network from these car parks could then make sense.

However, I have no idea of the cost, and even less confidence in the ability of doing it economically.

[Goodsy]

I could see that underground parks with parkland on top would work. It would also make the parkland accessible on weekends too.

A CBD based tram network from these car parks could then make sense.

However, I have no idea of the cost, and even less confidence in the ability of doing it economically.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

[rubberman]

I could see that underground parks with parkland on top would work. It would also make the parkland accessible on weekends too.

A CBD based tram network from these car parks could then make sense.

However, I have no idea of the cost, and even less confidence in the ability of doing it economically.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

Precisely.

Since the carparks were not put in the parklands, they went into the CBD itself. Thus increasing demand and congestion there.

So, the alternative of placing the carparks on the fringe, and then trams in the CBD would have had the effect of attracting car traffic to the fringes, but de-congesting the CBD. However, like I said, I have no idea if the cost to do it while preserving the park lands would have been worth it.

[adelaide transport]

The Transport Minister has this afternoon announced that the planned opening of the North Terrace and King William Road extensions will be delayed
During driver training issues were found with the signalling system. Experts are now investigating the problem.
Meanwhile the company that supplied the system are flying from Germany to Adelaide to help fix the problem. No new starting date has been announced.

[The Scooter Guy]

The Transport Minister has this afternoon announced that the planned opening of the North Terrace and King William Road extensions will be delayed
During driver training issues were found with the signalling system. Experts are now investigating the problem.
Meanwhile the company that supplied the system are flying from Germany to Adelaide to help fix the problem. No new starting date has been announced.

I hope it's just a week long wait.
And they need to GET THE BASICS RIGHT!

[rubberman]

The Transport Minister has this afternoon announced that the planned opening of the North Terrace and King William Road extensions will be delayed
During driver training issues were found with the signalling system. Experts are now investigating the problem.
Meanwhile the company that supplied the system are flying from Germany to Adelaide to help fix the problem. No new starting date has been announced.

When trams terminated in Victoria Square and Moseley Square with those scissors crossovers, they had NO signals. They also had no accidents. They also just obeyed ordinary traffic signals at intersections, except South Terrace where the trams went diagonally across road traffic.

So, we spent all that money on signals which still don't work...to achieve what?

It is truly bizarre.

[PD2/20]

When trams terminated in Victoria Square and Moseley Square with those scissors crossovers, they had NO signals. They also had no accidents. They also just obeyed ordinary traffic signals at intersections, except South Terrace where the trams went diagonally across road traffic.

So, we spent all that money on signals which still don't work...to achieve what?

It is truly bizarre.

Were there no tram specific aspects in the traffic signals? At the Vic Square terminus was there no protection in the traffic lights from the conflicting movements: right turn from the Square into Grote and tram leaving terminus into King William?

Was it the case that traffic lights were introduced in the city after the closure of the tram system in the 1950s? The Glenelg line didn't have the complication of tram junctions at major signalised road intersections.

[rubberman]

When trams terminated in Victoria Square and Moseley Square with those scissors crossovers, they had NO signals. They also had no accidents. They also just obeyed ordinary traffic signals at intersections, except South Terrace where the trams went diagonally across road traffic.

So, we spent all that money on signals which still don't work...to achieve what?

It is truly bizarre.

Were there no tram specific aspects in the traffic signals? At the Vic Square terminus was there no protection in the traffic lights from the conflicting movements: right turn from the Square into Grote and tram leaving terminus into King William?

Was it the case that traffic lights were introduced in the city after the closure of the tram system in the 1950s? The Glenelg line didn't have the complication of tram junctions at major signalised road intersections.

Depends when you are looking at it. When the tram terminated at Moores, definitely not. When the terminus was shifted to the centre of the Square, I think the traffic lights had a "T" aspect, at least in the latter years. However, the points for the scissors crossovers, and at the Morphetville sidings and at Colley Terrace, those are a definite no for any sort of lights. It seems reasonable to think that if a tram driver was going to ignore a 3 metre long point blade setting, they weren't going to take much notice of a 200mm coloured light. Further, if they were going fast enough for that to be a problem, they were definitely exceeding posted speed limits.

Poland

20180720_144619_resized.jpg (518.72 KiB) Viewed 3715 times

For what it's worth, these guys run trams over a big system with about 100m passengers per year. They do use signals, but when it's clearly needed.

[English Electric]

Just to be clear - in light of recent posts about whether or not scissors crossovers need signals - the fault causing the most recent delay to opening the extensions was in the control of the North Terrace / King William St junction.

According to this ABC report a regular tram in public service was accidentally diverted onto the new section on Monday 16th, and passengers needed to be evacuated.

It's unclear from the report whether this was a northbound tram being sent onto the Festival Plaza line, or a Glenelg-bound tram continuing straight ahead along North Terrace. But either way, you must admit they need to have this junction remotely operated by the driver (or transponder on the tram, or whatever) and working with 100% reliability before they can start the new services.

And presumably it's more an issue with incorrect operation of the points rather than "just" signal lights.

You'd expect stuff like this is very mature and well-understood technology for a conventional tramway like Adelaide's, and hopefully not too big a deal to fix - once you get suitably skilled people looking into it, that is.

ABC report source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-23/g ... n/10025788